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Oltux72

Whose shades are they?

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OK, maybe I am dense. The shades in the Forests of Hell are definitely ex-humans, aren't they? And shades dissolve slowly, so there is no such thing as a primordial shade. When the Forescouts arrived the forests were full of shades. There is no mention of aboriginies or ruins in the novella. That raises a question. Whose shades are they?

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Now that is an excellent question!

Speculations ahoy! I think @Lunamortheorized that the Forests of Hell was where people from the Homeland were conducting some secret research on Cognitive Shadows (...or was that about what the Evil was? Sorry, I forgot)

I think that kinda makes sense, the things that drives the Shades into hunting mode can be argued to be a bit random. Maybe they were experimenting on commanding Cognitive Shadows

Warbreaker spoilers

Spoiler

Kinda like Awakeners researching Lifeless Commands

 

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My theories are more boring.  The shades do seem attracted to humans(even more ones who don't follow the rules).  It is possible that the "full of shades" belief is actually a misconception and that the shades were always enraged against the early human explorers who first met them.  Also fading does not necessarily imply they dissolve.  The fused go through long periods of "hibernation."  Perhaps shades did the same when no settlers were around.  Their behavior may be much like spren in that they "fade" when no one attracts them.  We have yet to see Threnody's CR.

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Still what generated the first shades? If you say they were always there, why only on that continent? And if so, why are they human and human only?

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6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Still what generated the first shades? If you say they were always there, why only on that continent? And if so, why are they human and human only?

The Human bit I would default to assuming that it requires a sapient creature to possess the required minimum Investiture. That would imply that a Singer Shade would be possible, for example, should one make it to the planet.  

 

"What Generated the First Shades" will probably depend on several other lingering questions like "What is the Evil" or "What are the Deepest Ones".  Im assuming it's fallout of the battle with Ambition, but other than that it could be almost anything.  I personally think they are spren/seons/skaze that were created when Ambition was destroyed but not shoved in the Cognitive Realm the way D&D were later on.  

.

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1 hour ago, Quantus said:

The Human bit I would default to assuming that it requires a sapient creature to possess the required minimum Investiture. That would imply that a Singer Shade would be possible, for example, should one make it to the planet.  

Well, why are they not Sho Del, Dragon or Sleepless? If that is because these species never traveled to Threnody we need to imply that the shades were created locally. The why was te continent uninhabited?

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

"What Generated the First Shades" will probably depend on several other lingering questions like "What is the Evil" or "What are the Deepest Ones".  Im assuming it's fallout of the battle with Ambition, but other than that it could be almost anything.  I personally think they are spren/seons/skaze that were created when Ambition was destroyed but not shoved in the Cognitive Realm the way D&D were later on. 

Then why do they still exist in mostly a recognizable form? It needs extreme numbers of them to explain the Forests of Hell.

15 hours ago, Karger said:

My theories are more boring.  The shades do seem attracted to humans(even more ones who don't follow the rules).  It is possible that the "full of shades" belief is actually a misconception and that the shades were always enraged against the early human explorers who first met them.

I am afraid this theory needs to be rejected. It fails to explain why the Forests of Hell are empty of animals.

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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

I am afraid this theory needs to be rejected. It fails to explain why the Forests of Hell are empty of animals.

I assume because the animals could not follow the simple rules?

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Just now, Karger said:

I assume because the animals could not follow the simple rules?

Exactly. I fact we are told exactly that. But we are talking about a while continent here and if you look at how many small predators there are in a forest, you cannot get that eefect with thousands of shadows. You need really large numbers.

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26 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Exactly. I fact we are told exactly that. But we are talking about a while continent here and if you look at how many small predators there are in a forest, you cannot get that eefect with thousands of shadows. You need really large numbers.

Thousands of shadows over the course of decades or even centuries.

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29 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Exactly. I fact we are told exactly that. But we are talking about a while continent here and if you look at how many small predators there are in a forest, you cannot get that eefect with thousands of shadows. You need really large numbers.

To add to Frustration.  It is not a particularly large continent either.  Also a few humans can overhunt almost any animal to extinction within a really short amount of time.

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12 hours ago, Frustration said:

Thousands of shadows over the course of decades or even centuries.

But the other side breeds. Yes, humans can with weapons hunt large animals, who breed slowly, into extinction. But something of rabbit size?

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6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

But the other side breeds. Yes, humans can with weapons hunt large animals, who breed slowly, into extinction. But something of rabbit size?

All it takes is killing one more of them than are born every night.

It doesn't need to be instant, or alll of them, just enough that humans don't notice any more predators.

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