Karger

Finally! A workable body theory.

29 posts in this topic

Who or how Kelsier has managed to reconnect with a physical body is a constant question for the fandom these days.  Thanks to some recent WoBs I think we can now at least come up with a full theory at least.

Quote

Questioner

With regards to certain experiments, would it be fair to say Ishar and a certain Scadrian have similar goals? 

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitation noises* I don't know that I would say that 100%. The certain Scadrian you reference has been able to achieve the goals that he wants. Let's see if I can circumlocute this: there's a certain set of bones floating around that already has a Connection to this individual, which was useful in achieving what he wanted to do, which is not a luxury that Ishar has. 

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

+

Quote

AndyGranny

If you used a Lifeless body, would a Lifeless be able to access an untapped metalmind...

Brandon Sanderson

An unkeyed type of metalmind?

AndyGranny

Thank you, I could not think of that word. Would they be able to access an unkeyed metalmind if the intent when the Lifeless was created, if the intent was that they could...

Brandon Sanderson

Right, I see what you're getting at. Yes, they could. As they could access and use any tool that is appropriate for what they're Commanded to do, they could indeed access a metalmind in the same way.

In fact, doing so may, depending on the metalmind, be dangerous for keeping your Lifeless a Lifeless.

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

If Kel were to have someone get a few breaths and animate his old bones as a lifeless, then have the lifeless tap an unsealed metalmind of healing he could have his body back in perfect physical condition.  After he does so the only problem is "making a new string."  If you bring the new body into the CR one could preform hemalugy of the same type he uses to gain a connection to Spook.  A lifeless does not have a force of will capable of resisting outside control so Kel can then move his lifeless body as if it were his own making it that much easier to connect them even more firmly(compounding connection for example).

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What a splendid unethical unlife hack! Also, welcome back, Karg! But then why all the Hemalurgy though? Kelsier probably should be aware of the downsides of Hemalurgy so why would he do that unless he needed to? Or, I guess, if he found a way to mitigate the effects somehow but I don't think that's the case, that would be really big.

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24 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Also, welcome back

Thanks.  Good to be back

25 minutes ago, Honorless said:

But then why all the Hemalurgy though? Kelsier probably should be aware of the downsides of Hemalurgy so why would he do that unless he needed to?

Just breaking the lifeless would also work but it might also leave him vulnerable to others who are capable in the same ways(powerful awakeners, soothers, and so on).  Not having his body under control would be a problem.  Also just having your body on a remote control control might not be satisfactory.  A hemalurgic spike may make openings but if Kel himself is in all those openings the problems should be mitigated.  The close connection between Kel and his body would make breaking it as a lifeless much more difficult and Kel could probably block someone using soothing(after all even TLR could not force him to quit).

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To be honest, I always thought that Kelsier found a kandra willing to die, get them to imbibe his bones and then overwrite their spirit web with his via hemalurgy.

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1 hour ago, Karger said:

Thanks.  Good to be back

Just breaking the lifeless would also work but it might also leave him vulnerable to others who are capable in the same ways(powerful awakeners, soothers, and so on).  Not having his body under control would be a problem.  Also just having your body on a remote control control might not be satisfactory.  A hemalurgic spike may make openings but if Kel himself is in all those openings the problems should be mitigated.  The close connection between Kel and his body would make breaking it as a lifeless much more difficult and Kel could probably block someone using soothing(after all even TLR could not force him to quit).

Oh, as a Cognitive entity, he might be filling in the cracks in his Lifeless body's Spiritweb himself, like (Stormlight spoilers) 

Spoiler

spren do for Radiants 

That's definitely a possibility!

We only saw that one spike in one of his eyes so far, right? I wonder how many he has and why the eye specifically.

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3 hours ago, Honorless said:

why the eye specifically.

"The eyes are the windows to the soul," no? ;)

Poetry aside I think there's probably a rusting good reason he would use one of his eyes as the bind point. Maybe because it intersects with his brain in the right way to allow him to "enter" the mind of his new body? :huh:

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Kelsier also has gained feruchemy. Do you really want to propose that these advancements are independent of each other? Bones almost scream Mistwraith/Kandra, don't they?

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37 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Kelsier also has gained feruchemy. Do you really want to propose that these advancements are independent of each other? Bones almost scream Mistwraith/Kandra, don't they?

A full mistborn could gain feruchemy using southern scadrian tec.  No need for him to do any kind of body mod.  Also Kel is a sliver so he might be able to work out how the Teris were granted feruchemy to begin with.  It is possible that the manner in which he joined his body granted feruchemy as a byproduct but that is its own kettle of fish.  I would need to make an entirely new theory about the nature of investiture and the way magic systems develop.

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Poetry aside I think there's probably a rusting good reason he would use one of his eyes as the bind point. Maybe because it intersects with his brain in the right way to allow him to "enter" the mind of his new body? :huh:

I think he just needed a bindpoint and thought gaining stealsight at the same time would be a good idea but there may have been multiple possibilities and that was just one trade off.

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

Oh, as a Cognitive entity, he might be filling in the cracks in his Lifeless body's Spiritweb himself, like (Stormlight spoilers) 

Exactly.  Also Allomancy by nature is a preservation power.  Vin and Kel note that this type of investiture is designed to shore up cracks in the spirit web.  Use it with enough skill and he might just be able to pull his body and spirit together just by burning metals although the exact way in which they were put together might be a bit weird

Nalthis spoiler

Spoiler

(like a returned).

 

Edited by Karger
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11 hours ago, Karger said:

A full mistborn could gain feruchemy using southern scadrian tec. 

Aren't we assuming that he created this technology precisely because he had already become a feruchemist at that time? If not how do you explain that he used feruchemy of all things to save the Southerners? It looks to me that if you assume that the Savior had no feruchemy before he went south you will be open some huge logic conundrums.

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17 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Aren't we assuming that he created this technology precisely because he had already become a feruchemist at that time? If not how do you explain that he used feruchemy of all things to save the Southerners? It looks to me that if you assume that the Savior had no feruchemy before he went south you will be open some huge logic conundrums.

Other way around.  He wanted feruchemy so he invented south scadrain tec and used that to save the southerners.  He already had it when he went south.  The name is just confusing.  If he had already been a fullborn then why would he have figured out the technology?  Lack of necessity of the mother of ignorance.

Edited by Karger
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7 hours ago, Karger said:

Other way around.  He wanted feruchemy so he invented south scadrain tec and used that to save the southerners.  He already had it when he went south.  The name is just confusing.  If he had already been a fullborn then why would he have figured out the technology?  Lack of necessity of the mother of ignorance.

OK, let's look at what we know

  • Kelsier reincorporated with hemalurgy (strictly speaking this is an assumption - we only know that he planned to)
  • OreSeur ate Kelsier's original body
  • Kelsier's bones remain
  • OreSeur is dead
  • Kelsier reconstructed his original body down to the scars
  • The Southerners cannot make the Bands of Mourning and never could. After centuries of working at improving the technology.
  • It takes aluminium and full feruchemists (or hemalurgic constructs) to make unkeyed metalminds.
  • One can become a ferring without piercing an eye (Feruchemy was a later addition to some Steel Inquisitors and Telsin became a gold ferring.)

That tells us that Kelsier could not have a Kandra take his bones and then just snatch the body. The result would not look like Kelsier, in particular the scars would be missing. Kandra need to digest the body and OreSeur is dead.

Could he reanimate his bones in the manner of a lifeless and then do a body snatch? Presumably yes, but he'd end up as a walking skeleton. Could you use gold feruchemy to heal back from being reduced to a skeleton? We may assume so. But he would  be no feruchemist, there was no aluninium to make unkeyed metalminds and no more full feruchemists to fill them. You'd have to propose a secret project to make aluminium and hemalurgic constructs to fill them and for that to stay secret with Harmony watching stuff in a very small community of survivors in which a room of your own was a luxury.

Then why did he ram a spike through his eye? He made the effort to recreate his scars. Steel Inquisitors were figures of horror and revulsion. Why mutilate himself if you can gains some feruchemy by non obvious hemalurgy or medaillions? It makes no sense. I am afraid to explain the spike we need to assume that he needed it for reincarnation.

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9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

It takes aluminium and full feruchemists (or hemalurgic constructs) to make unkeyed metalminds.

Untrue.  We as yet do not know how unkeyed metalminds are created but unless the southerners have a full feruchemist(which I personally doubt) or are just using leftover ones to say power their airships(I doubt this as well) unkeyed metalminds can be made without a full feruchemist.

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Could he reanimate his bones in the manner of a lifeless and then do a body snatch? Presumably yes, but he'd end up as a walking skeleton. Could you use gold feruchemy to heal back from being reduced to a skeleton? We may assume so. But he would not be a feruchemist, there was no aluninium to make unkeyed metalminds and no more full feruchemists to fill them.

I imagine that there was some aluminum at least.  I was personally thinking one of Spook's hemalugy experiments would fill the metalmind.  Perhaps Spook himself would do it with an inquisitor spike or two(they had several left over).  We know that Spook did know about and preform hemalurgy.  Even it he did not Kelseir and Spook figured out medalions at some point and the right combination with a full mistborn(Spook) should allow for the creation of an unkeyed metalmind that would allow Kel's body to tap health.

So at this point we have a fully functional Kel body.  Unfortunately Kel's connection to said body is simply too weak.  He needs a "new string."  We also have this WoB.

Quote

Questioner

Can you Hemalurgically spike a highspren?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, asterisk.

JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)

Functionally the difference between a spren and a lifeless is fairly minimal.  Take Kel's body through a perpendicularity.  A deralumin spike creates the proper link between Kel and his body(steal the lifeless's connection to the body and give it to Kelseir).  Once done he can flare metals to grant himself a better connection and possibly even remove the spike once done(Preservation's power is very good at fixing/firming up damaged spirit webs).  As a side note Kelseir's really weird connection and spiritweb might actually let him gain feruchemy during this time.

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On 26.9.2021 at 7:41 PM, Karger said:

Untrue.  We as yet do not know how unkeyed metalminds are created

The alumiunm trick. We are fairly sure of that, as the Set can make them. Unsealed metalminds are another thing.

On 26.9.2021 at 7:41 PM, Karger said:

but unless the southerners have a full feruchemist(which I personally doubt) or are just using leftover ones to say power their airships(I doubt this as well) unkeyed metalminds can be made without a full feruchemist.

  1. They are making unsealed metalminds, not unkeyed metalminds
  2. They are not faced with making the first one of them. The Sovereign did that.
  3. They have harmonium.
On 26.9.2021 at 7:41 PM, Karger said:

I imagine that there was some aluminum at least.  I was personally thinking one of Spook's hemalugy experiments would fill the metalmind.  Perhaps Spook himself would do it with an inquisitor spike or two(they had several left over).

But not for Trueself abilities. The Lord Ruler had really no reason to make those. Nor would they really have a good means to identify them, even if they had them.

Nor would a lifeless from Kelsiers bone be a feruchemist. You'd need full medaillions.

On 26.9.2021 at 7:41 PM, Karger said:

  We know that Spook did know about and preform hemalurgy.  Even it he did not Kelseir and Spook figured out medalions at some point and the right combination with a full mistborn(Spook) should allow for the creation of an unkeyed metalmind that would allow Kel's body to tap health.

Ehm, we have no idea on which continent the medaillions were developed.

 

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On 9/26/2021 at 4:12 AM, Oltux72 said:

OK, let's look at what we know

  • Kelsier reincorporated with hemalurgy (strictly speaking this is an assumption - we only know that he planned to)
  • OreSeur ate Kelsier's original body
  • Kelsier's bones remain
  • OreSeur is dead
  • Kelsier reconstructed his original body down to the scars
  • The Southerners cannot make the Bands of Mourning and never could. After centuries of working at improving the technology.
  • It takes aluminium and full feruchemists (or hemalurgic constructs) to make unkeyed metalminds.
  • One can become a ferring without piercing an eye (Feruchemy was a later addition to some Steel Inquisitors and Telsin became a gold ferring.)

That tells us that Kelsier could not have a Kandra take his bones and then just snatch the body. The result would not look like Kelsier, in particular the scars would be missing. Kandra need to digest the body and OreSeur is dead.

Could he reanimate his bones in the manner of a lifeless and then do a body snatch? Presumably yes, but he'd end up as a walking skeleton. Could you use gold feruchemy to heal back from being reduced to a skeleton? We may assume so. But he would  be no feruchemist, there was no aluninium to make unkeyed metalminds and no more full feruchemists to fill them. You'd have to propose a secret project to make aluminium and hemalurgic constructs to fill them and for that to stay secret with Harmony watching stuff in a very small community of survivors in which a room of your own was a luxury.

Then why did he ram a spike through his eye? He made the effort to recreate his scars. Steel Inquisitors were figures of horror and revulsion. Why mutilate himself if you can gains some feruchemy by non obvious hemalurgy or medaillions? It makes no sense. I am afraid to explain the spike we need to assume that he needed it for reincarnation.

Brandon has confirmed that the Spike is attaching Kelsier’s soul to his current body.

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On 26/09/2021 at 10:12 AM, Oltux72 said:

That tells us that Kelsier could not have a Kandra take his bones and then just snatch the body. The result would not look like Kelsier, in particular the scars would be missing. Kandra need to digest the body and OreSeur is dead.

I don't see how this is a problem, TenSoon is the one who has Kel's bones.

6 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Brandon has confirmed that the Spike is attaching Kelsier’s soul to his current body.

The steel Spike is attaching Kel to his body?

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7 minutes ago, mathiau said:

I don't see how this is a problem, TenSoon is the one who has Kel's bones.

The steel Spike is attaching Kel to his body?

It’s probably not Steel, although Brandon has confirmed it’s not Lerasium. It is definitely connecting Kell’s soul to his body though:

Questioner

In Bands of Mourning, we learned that the Sovereign, who they confused as being the Lord Ruler, came after the Catacendre. [He] was their god, was their king and god. And then Kelsier looking for a string. Is the spike somehow connecting Kelsier's soul to Spook's body.

Brandon Sanderson

No, good question. It is connecting his soul with his body, his current body, but it is not Spook's body. That's a great theory.

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1 hour ago, mathiau said:

I don't see how this is a problem, TenSoon is the one who has Kel's bones.

Yes. The problem is that bones alone are not enough for a Kandra to recreate a body. They need to eat it, too. Hence we can rule out that Kelsier had a Kandra recreate his body and then snatched it. Hence the problem of explaining why Kelsier still looks like Kelsier is unsolved and without an obvious solution.

Neither can Kelsier just have snatched somebody, even a Feruchemist, as the result would not look like Kelsier.

We do not just have to explain why Kelsier has a body, but

  • why he has a body
  • why that body looks like him
  • why he is a Feruchemist
  • why he is physically immortal

Now, it is possible that Kelsier solved all those issues subsequently. But it is also quite inelegant. Hence I think he spiked himself into a Mistwraith.

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48 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes. The problem is that bones alone are not enough for a Kandra to recreate a body. They need to eat it, too. Hence we can rule out that Kelsier had a Kandra recreate his body and then snatched it. Hence the problem of explaining why Kelsier still looks like Kelsier is unsolved and without an obvious solution.

Neither can Kelsier just have snatched somebody, even a Feruchemist, as the result would not look like Kelsier.

We do not just have to explain why Kelsier has a body, but

  • why he has a body
  • why that body looks like him
  • why he is a Feruchemist
  • why he is physically immortal

Now, it is possible that Kelsier solved all those issues subsequently. But it is also quite inelegant. Hence I think he spiked himself into a Mistwraith.

I could see compounded identity having some effect for why the body looks like him.

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4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

We do not just have to explain why Kelsier has a body, but

  • why he has a body
  • why that body looks like him
  • why he is a Feruchemist
  • why he is physically immortal

Now, it is possible that Kelsier solved all those issues subsequently. But it is also quite inelegant. Hence I think he spiked himself into a Mistwraith.

I don't see how using a Mistwraith would improve his ability to use Feruchemy.  The WoB I quoted also implies fairly strongly that he used his own bones.  I suppose getting a mistwraith to eat them is one possibility but that entire process seems way messier since he would have to deal with a living organism not under his direct control.  As a temporary measure having Kel command a lifeless made out of his own body would work(like a puppet or construct).  In fact

SA

Spoiler

We have basically seen Szeth do this since he was reconnected to his body by Nale

Since his body and soul would still be a little disconnected and he has a bunch of extra investiture all he would need to do would be storing some of his investiture in metal as opposed to his body.  To use a financial metaphor he has capital and he can liquefy it.  The only problem is that he needs the right connection to open a bank account.  Since we have no idea how people gained bank access the first time and all individuals since then have either inhered bank access(feruchemy inheritance), borrowed it(southerners) or used identity theft(hemalurgy) we really cannot say how Kelseir managed it(if he did as he might simply borrow as he taught the southerners).  Knowing Kel he would probably want to create his own credentials but I don't think we have enough info to say how.  Generally speaking we don't really know what causes feruchemy in the first place just that it is passed on genetically.

Edited by Karger
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7 minutes ago, Karger said:

I don't see how using a Mistwraith would improve his ability to use Feruchemy.  The WoB I quoted also implies fairly strongly that he used his own bones.  I suppose getting a mistwraith to eat them is one possibility but that entire process seems way messier since he would have to deal with a living organism not under his direct control.

An animal basically.

When you perform hemalurgy on a Mistwraith in the way to make a Kandra, you do not add intelligence in the conventional hemalurgic method. Pulling the spikes out of a Kandra does not wipe out their mind. It makes it unusable. But even if you put in an alien spike, the mind is still there. Paalm has demonstrated that. Also the first generation was not brain wiped. They got their human memories back. You unblock something that Rashek blocked.
So what do we get if we undo Rashek's blockage in full? If you did it on a member of the first generation you get a human being back. In fact you'd get a Terrisperson. And that is crucial. You'd get a potential Feruchemist. There we have the basically cheapest way to become a Feruchemist. Spike a Mistwraith not into a Kandra, but fully back into human.

 

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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

So what do we get if we undo Rashek's blockage in full? If you did it on a member of the first generation you get a human being back. In fact you'd get a Terrisperson. And that is crucial. You'd get a potential Feruchemist. There we have the basically cheapest way to become a Feruchemist. Spike a Mistwraith not into a Kandra, but fully back into human.

Firstly that would only work if you found on OG mistwraith and I am not sure any still exist.  Secondly if TLR wanted to insure feruchemy was not available in the future it does not seem like a smart move to let feruchemically knowledgeable people also gain some understanding of hemalurgy(first generation) even if they are loyal to you(if he had confidence in that he wouldn't have granted them immortality).  Also if that works why have the Set not done it?  Seems a lot faster then kidnapping a large number of metalborn and they have plenty of hemalurgic knowledge.  Additionally the ancient Terris.

Quote

"Immortality," TenSoon said quietly. "In exchange for their Feruchemy. They gave it up, along with something else."

Implies to some degree that they could not access feruchemy again by such simple means.

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2 hours ago, Karger said:

Firstly that would only work if you found on OG mistwraith and I am not sure any still exist.  Secondly if TLR wanted to insure feruchemy was not available in the future it does not seem like a smart move to let feruchemically knowledgeable people also gain some understanding of hemalurgy(first generation) even if they are loyal to you(if he had confidence in that he wouldn't have granted them immortality).  Also if that works why have the Set not done it?  Seems a lot faster then kidnapping a large number of metalborn and they have plenty of hemalurgic knowledge.

To your first first point, all the OG mistwraiths are long dead. Standard mistwraiths only have a life span of about 50 years. However, Feruchemy is passed on through the sDNA and since ALL of the OG mistwraiths were feruchemists, I find it quite likely that, forgive the programming analogy, the code for Feruchemy expression had been commented out or some other small error was created to prevent the expression of those genes. We know that Rashek had god-like powers, but his future sight and ability to use those powers with precision was limited. It is entirely possible that he did not entirely delete the code for Feruchemy out of the population of mistwraiths. After all, he did not rewrite the sDNA of the ENTIRE Terris population to remove Feruchemy, only living Feruchemists.

To your second point, the Kandra didn't know much about Hemalurgy. The Inquisitors were the ones that experimented with it. Also, I would think that the inquisitors lack of success with Hemalurgy over a thousand years would help explain why TLR was not overly worried about someone accidentally spiking a mistwraith back into a Feruchemist.

Considering the amount of time that Kel held the power, it is possible that he gained enough knowledge of the subtleties of Hemalurgy to perhaps while attaching his cognitive shadow to the mistwraiths body, Connected the remaining pieces of Feruchemical sDNA to his own spirit web.

To your third point, to replicate what we think Kel did, you would need a mistwraith, which are noted to possibly not have survived the end of ash, and thus could be quite rare or extinct by now. You would also need at least a cognitive shadow and mabey even a sliver that was willing to work with you.  The only way that I can think of for a Scadrian without access to off world magic to become a cognitive shadow would be to enter a perpandicularity shortly after death. The well of ascension and the pits no longer have perpendicularities and Harmony's perpendicularity location is unknown. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound particularly simple or easy to replicate.

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1 hour ago, The Silverlight Scholar said:

Standard mistwraiths only have a life span of about 50 years. However, Feruchemy is passed on through the sDNA and since ALL of the OG mistwraiths were feruchemists, I find it quite likely that, forgive the programming analogy, the code for Feruchemy expression had been commented out or some other small error was created to prevent the expression of those genes. We know that Rashek had god-like powers, but his future sight and ability to use those powers with precision was limited. It is entirely possible that he did not entirely delete the code for Feruchemy out of the population of mistwraiths. After all, he did not rewrite the sDNA of the ENTIRE Terris population to remove Feruchemy, only living Feruchemists.

I think there is a bit of a difference between making sure your absolutely eliminate all current problems and correctly anticipating future problems.  To use a medical analogy it is the difference removing a tumor and curing cancer.  With precise enough power that has enough scope getting rid of the first is easy.  Reshek could probably "see" every feruchemist on scadrial without trouble(invested people are highly noticeable to shards) but picking out any potential in the Terris population's sDNA for feruchemists to be born in the future is way more difficult.  To use your coding analogy if you have spotted and isolated malignant code rendering it harmless is not usually much of a problem.  The real issues come from the bugs you simply don't notice.

1 hour ago, The Silverlight Scholar said:

To your second point, the Kandra didn't know much about Hemalurgy. The Inquisitors were the ones that experimented with it. Also, I would think that the inquisitors lack of success with Hemalurgy over a thousand years would help explain why TLR was not overly worried about someone accidentally spiking a mistwraith back into a Feruchemist.

Kandra might not initially have been experts at hemalurgy but unlike the inquisitors they are immortal and not particularly closely monitored by TLR.  They also have existences dependent on hemalurgy and work with mistwraiths who they raise as children.  This is the guy who overdid everything to the point of ludicrousness.  I think he would have been more careful if it was a reasonable issue.

1 hour ago, The Silverlight Scholar said:

Considering the amount of time that Kel held the power, it is possible that he gained enough knowledge of the subtleties of Hemalurgy to perhaps while attaching his cognitive shadow to the mistwraiths body, Connected the remaining pieces of Feruchemical sDNA to his own spirit web.

It is equally possible that he found some other way of doing so.

1 hour ago, The Silverlight Scholar said:

To your third point, to replicate what we think Kel did, you would need a mistwraith, which are noted to possibly not have survived the end of ash, and thus could be quite rare or extinct by now.

So would Kel.  I don't see their numbers decreasing post remaking.  The world is way easier to live in by then.

1 hour ago, The Silverlight Scholar said:

You would also need at least a cognitive shadow and mabey even a sliver that was willing to work with you

No you wouldn't.  All you want is a full feruchemist in that scenario(when you can breed or enslave).  If you can undo the blockage then that is all you need.

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2 hours ago, Karger said:

Kandra might not initially have been experts at hemalurgy but unlike the inquisitors they are immortal and not particularly closely monitored by TLR.  They also have existences dependent on hemalurgy and work with mistwraiths who they raise as children.

The Lord Ruler made as many spikes as they requested. He did not tell them that they are hemalurgic constructs.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

This is the guy who overdid everything to the point of ludicrousness.  I think he would have been more careful if it was a reasonable issue.

He was careful. He learned from moving the sun. To Rashek being careful meant not doing irreversable things and always having a plan B. He even kept a bead of lerasium around, just in case. He has a certain need for feruchemy. Without feruchemy he cannot fully equip his new Steel Inquisitors. He needs to keep the breeding populations apart, but totally eradicating feruchemy would create other problems.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

So would Kel.  I don't see their numbers decreasing post remaking.  The world is way easier to live in by then.

Yes. No more Skaa corpses just dumped somewhere. And Sazed has recreated the verdant ecology with its own scavangers. All bad news for other scavangers.

Marasi noted in Bands of Mourning that no Mistwraith has been seen in a long time. Granted, Scadrians are not avid explorers, but Mistwraiths are at least rare.

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11 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

The Lord Ruler made as many spikes as they requested. He did not tell them that they are hemalurgic constructs.

Tensoon seemed fully aware(he sympathized with Koloss).  The reason TLR made the spikes is because kandra that considered themselves bound by the first contract could of course not kill humans.

11 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

He was careful. He learned from moving the sun.

Did he though?  As I see it the problems he developed were really always the same.  He was like a construction company that kept propping up the same rotting wooden bridge instead of knocking it down and replacing it with a steel one.  His solutions were often complex but they were never elegant and he never really learned.  In fact if I had to sum up his character it would be "he was smart but he never learned."

11 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes. No more Skaa corpses just dumped somewhere. And Sazed has recreated the verdant ecology with its own scavangers. All bad news for other scavangers.

Marasi noted in Bands of Mourning that no Mistwraith has been seen in a long time. Granted, Scadrians are not avid explorers, but Mistwraiths are at least rare.

I honestly think that either Harmony got rid of them all when he remade the world or that some population of them exists somewhere 300 years later.  I think they reproduce asexually so it would only take one.  I also think Saze would hesitate to extinct a population of creatures that used to be his own people.

Edited by Karger
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