Zoey

Shard Names in Other Languages

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I was curious in seeing what the names of Shards are in other languages. as in the official translations. 

Note, some of the Translations are not exactly the same as the English meaning, look at the comments below to see the actual meaning of some of them. 

 

Devotion (English) | Devotion (German) |  奉獻 (fèng xiàn) (Chinese) | Oddanie (Polish)

Dominion (English) | Dominium (German) | 統治 (tǒng zhì) (Chinese) | Dominacja (Polish)

Preservation (English) |  Conservación (Spanish) | Bewahr (German) | 保存 [Hozon] (Japanese) |  存留 (cún liú) (Chinese) | Zachowanie (Polish)

Ruin (English) | Ruin (German) | 破壊 [Hakai] (Japanese) | 滅絕 (miè jué) (Chinese) |  Zniszczenie (Polish)

Odium (English) | Odium (Spanish) | Odium (German) | 憎悪 (オディウム) [Zouo] (Japanese) | 憎惡 (zēng è) (Chinese) | Odium (Polish)

Cultivation (English) | Bebauerin (German) | 養成 (カルティヴェイション) [Yousei] (Japanese) | 培養 (péi yǎng) (Chinese) | Pielęgnacja (Polish)

Honor (English) | Honor (Spanish) | Ehr (German) | 誇り (オナー) [Hokori] (Japanese) | 榮譽 (róng yù) (Chinese) | Honor (Polish)

Endowment (English) | Dotación (Spanish) | Gabe (German) | 捐助 (juān zhù) (Chinese)

Autonomy (English) | 自主 (zì zhǔ) (Chinese) | Niezależność (Polish)

Ambition (English) |  Ehrgeiz (German) | 野心 (yě xīn) (Chinese) | Ambicja (Polish)

Harmony (English) | 和諧 (hé xié) (Chinese) | Harmonia (Polish)

Invention (English) |  Invention (German)

Mercy (English) |  Piedad (Spanish) | Gnade (German)

Valor (English) | Mut (German)

Whimsy (English) |  Schrulle (German)

 

Truthwatcher (English) | Vigilante de la verdad (Spanish)

Windrunner (English) | Corredor/a del viento  (Spanish)

Skybreaker (English) | Rompedor/a del cielo  (Spanish)

Bondsmith (English) | Forjador/a de vínculos  (Spanish)

Elsecaller (English) | Nominador/a de lo otro  (Spanish) | Aufscheiner (German)

Stoneward (English) | Custodio/a de piedra  (Spanish)

Lightweaver (English) | Tejedor/a de luz  (Spanish) | Lichtweber (German)

Dustbringer (English) | Portador/a del polvo  (Spanish)

Edgedancer (English) | Danzante del filo  (Spanish) | Die Tänzerin am Abgrund (German) | Tancerka Krawędzi (Polish)

Willshaper (English) | Escultor/a de la voluntad  (Spanish)

 

Dawnshard (English) | Odprysk Świtu (Polish)

Connection (English) |

Identity (English) |

Investiture (English) |

 

Edited by Zoey
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@CosmereComradeFound a response from this guy who has read the books in Spanish. It's not a complete list but he mentions a few and it's helpful. 

Hi there! i've read every single Cosmere book in spanish (with the exception of the dawnshard novella since i didnt know when it would be published in spanish and I really wanted to read it before RoW, and white sand)

Windspren is actually translated as vientospren, so that one you guessed correctly!

For most of the other things they leave them in as in the English edition, with some little tweaks here and there, as in:

Parshmen is Parshmenio in Spanish.

However, for the radiant orders we have translations, which are slightly different, while mantaining the meaning of it (in spanish we can't form new words from the conjunction of two other words)

Those would be:

Truthwatcher -> Vigilante de la verdad

Windrunner -> Corredor/a del viento

Skybreaker -> Rompedor/a del cielo

Bondsmith -> Forjador/a de vínculos

Elsecaller -> Nominador/a de lo otro

Stoneward -> Custodio/a de piedra

Lightweaver -> Tejedor/a de luz

Dustbringer -> Portador/a del polvo

Edgedancer -> Danzante del filo

Willshaper -> Escultor/a de la voluntad

When I tipe the /a it is because you need to ad or substract that letter depending on the gender of the person (great language difference tbh)

Also voidbringer would be Portador/a del Vacío

This happens the same way with the shard's Intentions, and while Honor remains the same way, (so does Odium, which is actually originally latin, so we spanish speakers can read it normally) other intentions don't.

As is: Mercy -> Piedad, Preservation -> Conservación, Endowment -> Dotación and so on.

Also, in spanish this can make things slightly more complicated to translate. I always remember that one scene with Kaladin, when he jumps in the arena to save Adolin from his unfair duel, when he says "Honor is dead".

In english this means both things at the same time: The concept of honor is no longer supported by the people, and the actual Shard Honor is dead.

In spanish you can't say that, you need to put a "the" before honor to make the sentence have sense. But in doing that, you no longer have the second interlretation!

So, in spanish you could say: "El honor ha muerto" or "Honor ha muerto".

 

I hope i've helped you with this, and if you want to know more funny translation things I'm happy to help :)

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45 minutes ago, Shinwarrior said:

@CosmereComrade

snipped for length

Thanks, added them. And yeah, thought Preservation would be Conservacion. I do know some Spanish, though it isn't the best, had Spanish Class years ago and it wasn't the best. Teacher was very nice, but didn't teach that well. My Japanese is much better than my Spanish. 

I do recall seeing the German translation of Edgedancer, and it was like, Dancer of the Abyss if translated into English, and like, sounds a lot edgier than the more elegant connotations intended with Edgedancer.  

Edited by Zoey
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The Japanese translations stopped with Way of Kings (and skipped Warbreaker) so very few of the Shards actually got named in that language. In the case of WoK they're written with kanji featuring furigana that gives the approximate English pronunciation (in parenthesis here) while in Mistborn they're written with the suffix 神 ('God') and no furigana to give the English pronunciation. Romanizations in brackets.

Preservation: 保存 [Hozon]
Ruin: 破壊 [Hakai]
Honor: 誇り (オナー) [Hokori]
Cultivation: 養成 (カルティヴェイション) [Yousei]
Odium: 憎悪 (オディウム) [Zouo]

The translation isn't consistent about Honor; the honorblades and honorspren are written with 名誉 (which literally means 'Honor') while the name used for the Shard is 誇り ('Pride'). There's no official translations for any of the other Shards. Someone seems to have taken it upon themselves to make names for them on the Japanese wikipedia page, but these aren't anywhere in the actual books and the ones for Mistborn/SA conflict with the names that are in the books, and several of them aren't even real words to boot.

As mentioned, the names for Preservation and Ruin mean those things in Japanese (well, the word for Ruin ls literally 'Destruction' but close enough) and so does the translation for Cultivation. The word for Odium means 'Hatred' in Japanese. That leaves Honor as the only one that's kinda weird from a translation perspective. I can check some of the other things like misting/Radiant names later.

Edited by Weltall
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So, German.

I have to add that I read my first few Sanderson books in German before switching to English pretty early on (when Words of Radiance came out and wasn't translated yet). I do respect the German translators and don't want to blame them too much - translating all those unique words and word combinations must be a pain - but the translation really lacks flow, a lot of the words feel wrong, and it just isn't a nice reading experience that way, in my opinion. Switching to English took Sanderson's work to a new level, which is why I always recommend reading the English originals. It's actually quite usual to be basically semi-fluent in English in Germany, so the language barrier isn't a problem for most as well. As an important side-note, I am aware that translating these novels is a tough job though, so no bad feelings.

Now I did check on the German translation of Rhythm of War's first half (they're released as two separate books) when I found it in a book shop, to check all the Shard names in the second letter. I actually considered making a thread about it, but it felt too much like poking fun at the translator in bad taste, so I didn't. But I guess this is the right place for it, so don't read this as me being super mad at the translator. Anyway, here's the translations they chose, and they do not make any sense:

Ruin = Ruin. This kind of works. It's an actual German word, but I'd say that more often than not, it refers to economic ruin in particular, which makes for a few weird moments when characters actually mean that at one point in Hero of Ages and use the word "Ruin" in that context (note that substantives in German are always capitalized, so there's factually no difference between the word for the Shard and the word for economic ruin, and they use it for both in the same book, which is kind of awkward). But as I said, it works okay and sounds good.

Odium = Odium. This makes sense.

Invention = Invention. It's pronounced differently. I have no idea why they kept it - while Invention is a very usual word in English, noone ever uses the word Invention in a casual German conversation. The better word would be "Erfindung", in my opinion (which also keeps the double meaning of both the virtue of invention and an invention as a result of that virtue).

Devotion = Devotion. Same here - pronounced differently, and I have no idea why they didn't go with "Hingabe" or "Hingebung". Noone ever uses "Devotion" in casual conversation, in contrast to the English word. Now it gets weird:

Ambition = Ehrgeiz. The reason this is weird: "Ambition" is a word that is used frequently in German. Other than "Devotion" and "Invention", it is an actual word that people would know the meaning of without inferring it from an English word. Yet they went with a completely different word. The word that they used itself is the right one, and I have no problems with it. But it's so weird that they went with this word here of all places, when this would have been the only place where a "-tion" word could have been kept while keeping the meaning and impact of the original word. It's the exact other way around compared to what it should have been like (regarding Invention and Devotion)!

Dominion = Dominium. Another case of a kind of usual English word being translated with a word that few people in Germany will ever have heard of. "Herrschaft" would have been a good translation, although I guess that's more along the lines of "reign" (as a substantive). I don't dislike this translation though, it works for me personally.

Endowment = Gabe. This works very well, nothing to add. I guess that this is the reason they didn't go with "Hingabe" for Devotion, since that would have been too similar. Still, "Hingebung" would have been another option that would have been the same in meaning but not as similar to "Gabe" as a word.

Valor = Mut. Works well! I personally feel like "Mut" is more along the lines of courage, while valor would be better translated as "Tapferkeit", but I could be mistaken. So nothing to complain here, all good!

Mercy = Gnade. Also works well! Now we get to the really weird ones . . .

Whimy = Schrulle. Well, I guess it is the right word, in a way. But I also know the word "Schrulle" as an insult for a, well, whimsical person. That might be a regional thing where I'm from. But I literally whinced when I read that word referring to a Shard. That said, I also raised an eyebrow on Whimsy when reading the epigraph the first time, so I guess it kinda works? I summarize: I dislike it, but maybe it works.

Preservation = Bewahr --> Bewahrung. Another weird one. In the original translation of the Mistborn trilogy, Preservation was translated as "Bewahr". Note that this is not an actual German word. The actual translation for Preservation is "Bewahrung", but since that word doesn't sound like a name at all (well, just like the original word with its -tion, the equivalent of the German -ung), they cut off the last few letters. It's comparable to something like "Preser", I guess. Which, in my opinion, doesn't work at all and does not reflect the way the English original handles the Shard name, since that one doesn't shy away from straight away using a word which clearly isn't a name. It's also weird because Preservation is introduced along with Ruin, which, as explained above, stayed the same and is literally just a word (even one that is used within the same book!). Why do it differently with this one? In later translations, they apparently changed it. In Rhythm of War, they use the actual German word for it, "Bewahrung". Which makes the next one even weirder!

Honor = Ehr. This is not a German word either. It was created using the same principle as "Bewahr" above. The German word for Honor is "Ehre". They cut off the last letter to make it sound more like a name. As of the Edgedancer translation (which includes the Roshar essay from Arcanum Unbounded, mentioning the Rosharan Shards), released last year, they have not changed it. I don't know if they changed it for Rhythm of War. I couldn't check that because Honor is not mentioned in the letter, and I didn't know where to look for a mention that Shard. But as of the Edgedancer translation, they did not change it, while they changed Preservation, so now it's even more inconsistent than before, if that is possible. I don't think it's that bad, but certainly a bit irritating. Now for the weirdest of them all.

Cultivation = Bebauerin. Also going off of the Edgedancer translation. This is not a translation of the word Cultivation, it's a word for a female person who cultivates something. I have no idea what this is supposed to be and what it's doing here. Complete nonsense. The Shard isn't even a person, so why assign a gender to it? And even if you do that, why do it only here? It breaks what little is left of any sense of consistency.

Autonomy has not been translated yet. It will probably be translated as "Autonomie", which would be the best and easiest way to do it. But who knows, it seems it's impossible to predict.

Again, I feel kind of bad writing all of this since I know that translating Sanderson books is a tough job, especially at the rate that his books are released, so if by any chance you are reading this, Michael, I know that it's hard, I really do! But I do not get behind these particular translations, I really don't.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk :D

Edited by Elegy
(Bolded the names)
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Polish (my grumpy commentary in parenthesis)

Devotion (English) | Oddanie

Dominion (English) | Dominacja (imo should be Panowanie [they translated it as if was Domination, not Dominion])

Preservation (English) |  Zachowanie

Ruin (English) | Zniszczenie (literally Destruction)

Odium (English) | Odium

Cultivation (English) | Pielęgnacja (nurture)

Honor (English) | Honor

Endowment (English) | don't know

Autonomy (English) | Niezależność (idk why not just leave it as Autonomia)

Ambition (English) | Ambicja

Harmony (English) | Harmonia

no idea about the ones revealed in RoW

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4 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Harmony (English) | Harmonia

I thought that said "Harmonica" for a second and my dissapointment cannot be understated.

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Here are the official translations of Shards in traditional Chinese, published in Taiwan.

Devotion (English) | 奉獻 (fèng xiàn)  Giving away your possession for belief/ religion/ greater good.

Dominion (English) | 統治 (tǒng zhì)  Ruling and fully control (usually nation or people).

Peservation (English) | 存留 (cún liú)  Keeping something, something lasting for a long time.

Ruin (English) | 滅絕 (miè jué)  More like extinction actually.

Odium (English) | 憎惡 (zēng è)  Hating, loathing.

Cultivation (English) | 培養 (péi yǎng)  Can be use for actual stuff like plants, or use figuratively, like a hobby.

Honor (English) | 榮譽 (róng yù)  Honorable reputation.

Endowment (English) | 捐助 (juān zhù)  Donate and help, nothing about being gifted though.

Autonomy (English) | 自主 (zì zhǔ)  Pretty accurate.

Ambition (English) | 野心 (yě xīn)  Ambition but in slightly negative way, commonly for seeking power.

Harmony (English) | 和諧 (hé xié)  Accurate.

Guessing for following Shards because RoW has not been published yet.

Invention (English) | 發明 (fā míng) Should be the only way to translate.

Mercy (English) | 寬容 (kuān róng) Forgiving or cutting someone slacks. or 憐憫 (lián mǐn)  Pity someone

Valor (English) | 英勇 (yīng yǒng) Heroic and bravery

Whimsy (English) | 怪奇 (guài qí) Weird and quirky

 

Radiant names are also accurate and sounds very cool in the Taiwanese version of SA, the translator did a great job there.

They all have "師 (shī)" at the end, meaning "the professionals of something" or "the master of something"

Windrunner 逐風師 Master of chasing wind

Skybreaker 破空師 Master of breaking sky

Dustbringer 招塵師 Master of waving-in/bringing dust

Edgedancer 緣舞師 Master of edge dancing

Truthwatcher 真觀師 Master of truth observing

Lightweaver 織光師 Master of weaving light

Elsecaller 異召師 Master of different/strange summoning/calling

Willshaper 塑志師 Master of shaping/forming will

Stoneward 岩衛師 Master of stone/rock guarding

Bondsmith 盟鑄師 Master of bond/ally forging

 

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Okay, erstmal kurz zu dem Rest: warum sind die alle so komisch? / Why are they all so weird? So many of those would be easy to keep consistent! Ehre, Kultivierung, Bewahrung, Erfindung... Man könnte dann sogar versuchen alles mit so Wörtern zu machen, also Zerstörung, Hingebung, etc. Wäre schwierig.

16 hours ago, Elegy said:

translating all those unique words and word combinations must be a pain

However, this one really gets me. It really, really shouldn't be. The reason english is such a good language for fantasy and translating from english to other languages is sometimes difficult is that english uses compound words, aka Windrunner, and not "runner of the wind" or something like that. I think roman languages do it like that. That enables english readers to see words like "steelpush" and "lightweaver" and such and get a grasp of what that entails quickly.

Now to the part that frustrates me: know what kind of languages do compounding? Germanic languages. English is one. You know what else is one? GERMAN.

"Die Tänzerin am Abgrund" is an insult to the art of translation tbh. Seriously, what the storm? Give me 5 Minutes and I'll have the orders as compound words.

I'm deliberately not putting the translations here to show how close the translations lie. See if you can figure out all ten.

Windläufer (literally: Windrenner)

Himmelbrecher

Staubbringer aka Freisetzer

Randtänzer (literally: Kantentänzer).  See how much better that looks?

Wahrheitsseher. (Ich hätte fast "Wahrschauer" geschrieben aber das klingt nach Ghetto)

Lichtweber

Fremdrufer (literally: Andersrufer)

Willen(s)former

Steinwache(r)

Bundschmied

 

now, many of those don't sound as smooth or nice to me as the english ones do, but still. Compounding exists in German and is easy. Seriously, whenever there's a tool or machine that does something and there isn't a specific name for it, German will call it (whatever it does)-Zeug (meaning "stuff"). Planes are Flystuffs. Tools are Workstuffs. You could call a Soulcaster "Alchemiezeug" or "Seelzeug" and it would almost work.

Okay, Rant over. Phew.

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20 hours ago, Weltall said:

The Japanese translations stopped with Way of Kings (and skipped Warbreaker) so very few of the Shards actually got named in that language. In the case of WoK they're written with kanji featuring furigana that gives the approximate English pronunciation (in parenthesis here) while in Mistborn they're written with the suffix 神 ('God') and no furigana to give the English pronunciation. Romanizations in brackets.

Preservation: 保存 [Hozon]
Ruin: 破壊 [Hakai]
Honor: 誇り (オナー) [Hokori]
Cultivation: 養成 (カルティヴェイション) [Yousei]
Odium: 憎悪 (オディウム) [Zouo]

The translation isn't consistent about Honor; the honorblades and honorspren are written with 名誉 (which literally means 'Honor') while the name used for the Shard is 誇り ('Pride'). There's no official translations for any of the other Shards. Someone seems to have taken it upon themselves to make names for them on the Japanese wikipedia page, but these aren't anywhere in the actual books and the ones for Mistborn/SA conflict with the names that are in the books, and several of them aren't even real words to boot.

As mentioned, the names for Preservation and Ruin mean those things in Japanese (well, the word for Ruin ls literally 'Destruction' but close enough) and so does the translation for Cultivation. The word for Odium means 'Hatred' in Japanese. That leaves Honor as the only one that's kinda weird from a translation perspective. I can check some of the other things like misting/Radiant names later.

Thanks, and yeah, I can kinda see where they got Pride from, but yeah, not the best fit. 

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9 hours ago, ShardPug said:

Here are the official translations of Shards in traditional Chinese, published in Taiwan.

Devotion (English) | 奉獻 (fèng xiàn)  Giving away your possession for belief/ religion/ greater good.

Dominion (English) | 統治 (tǒng zhì)  Ruling and fully control (usually nation or people).

Peservation (English) | 存留 (cún liú)  Keeping something, something lasting for a long time.

Ruin (English) | 滅絕 (miè jué)  More like extinction actually.

Odium (English) | 憎惡 (zēng è)  Hating, loathing.

Cultivation (English) | 培養 (péi yǎng)  Can be use for actual stuff like plants, or use figuratively, like a hobby.

Honor (English) | 榮譽 (róng yù)  Honorable reputation.

Endowment (English) | 捐助 (juān zhù)  Donate and help, nothing about being gifted though.

Autonomy (English) | 自主 (zì zhǔ)  Pretty accurate.

Ambition (English) | 野心 (yě xīn)  Ambition but in slightly negative way, commonly for seeking power.

Harmony (English) | 和諧 (hé xié)  Accurate.

Guessing for following Shards because RoW has not been published yet.

Invention (English) | 發明 (fā míng) Should be the only way to translate.

Mercy (English) | 寬容 (kuān róng) Forgiving or cutting someone slacks. or 憐憫 (lián mǐn)  Pity someone

Valor (English) | 英勇 (yīng yǒng) Heroic and bravery

Whimsy (English) | 怪奇 (guài qí) Weird and quirky

 

Radiant names are also accurate and sounds very cool in the Taiwanese version of SA, the translator did a great job there.

They all have "師 (shī)" at the end, meaning "the professionals of something" or "the master of something"

Windrunner 逐風師 Master of chasing wind

Skybreaker 破空師 Master of breaking sky

Dustbringer 招塵師 Master of waving-in/bringing dust

Edgedancer 緣舞師 Master of edge dancing

Truthwatcher 真觀師 Master of truth observing

Lightweaver 織光師 Master of weaving light

Elsecaller 異召師 Master of different/strange summoning/calling

Willshaper 塑志師 Master of shaping/forming will

Stoneward 岩衛師 Master of stone/rock guarding

Bondsmith 盟鑄師 Master of bond/ally forging

 

Thanks, but can you please give the transliterations of the Orders if it isn't too much of a bother?

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2 minutes ago, Zoey said:

Thanks, but can you please give the transliterations of the Orders if it isn't too much of a bother?

 

2 minutes ago, Zoey said:

Windrunner 逐風師 Master of chasing wind [= zhú fēng shī]

Skybreaker 破空師 Master of breaking sky [=pò kōng shī]

Dustbringer 招塵師 Master of waving-in/bringing dust [=zhāo chén shī]

Edgedancer 緣舞師 Master of edge dancing [=yuán wǔ shī]

Truthwatcher 真觀師 Master of truth observing [=zhēn guān shī]

Lightweaver 織光師 Master of weaving light [=zhī guāng shī]

Elsecaller 異召師 Master of different/strange summoning/calling [=yì zhào shī]

Willshaper 塑志師 Master of shaping/forming will [=sù zhì shī]

Stoneward 岩衛師 Master of stone/rock guarding [=yán wèi shī]

Bondsmith 盟鑄師 Master of bond/ally forging [=méng zhù shī]

 

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1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

 

 

Thank you, and yeah, I like the pattern of putting shi at the end of them all, it is quite nice. 

Edited by Zoey
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1 minute ago, Zoey said:

Thank you, and yeah, I like the pattern of putting shi at the end of them all, it is quite nice. 

Would agree. 师 gives it a very wuxia/youxia feel to me, which isn't incompatible with how Stormlight goes.

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2 hours ago, Benkinsky said:

Okay, erstmal kurz zu dem Rest: warum sind die alle so komisch? / Why are they all so weird? So many of those would be easy to keep consistent! Ehre, Kultivierung, Bewahrung, Erfindung... Man könnte dann sogar versuchen alles mit so Wörtern zu machen, also Zerstörung, Hingebung, etc. Wäre schwierig.

Yes, I think a lot of the Shard name translations are kompletter Müll, to put it lightly. (Lässt mich außerdem an die Übersetzung für "Desolation" denken, die man einfach als "Verwüstung" hätte handhaben können. Stattdessen schreibt der gute Mann: "Wüstwerdung". I don't get it.)

I don't even want to start with the book titles which often have nothing to do with the actual books. (The worst offender being "Krieger des Feuers" = "Warriors of Fire" for Well of Ascension, which has nothing to do with fire, let alone warriors of fire.) Brandon has adressed this in one of his streams and said that the publisher wants the titles to sound more traditionally fantasy. But that's not a good justification. Heyne just doesn't care about giving the audience the best possible representation of the source material. Which is an enormously popular source material, so why even worry in the first place?

As much as I, as I said, respect the translator's work, despite all its flaws, and acknowledge that he has a tough job - I'm not that forgiving with the publisher. Heyne is just dumb and they dropped a lot of balls on this one. Brandon would be way more popular in Germany if they hadn't messed this up, and I really hate them for it. :ph34r:

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15 hours ago, Elegy said:

Yes, I think a lot of the Shard name translations are kompletter Müll, to put it lightly. (Lässt mich außerdem an die Übersetzung für "Desolation" denken, die man einfach als "Verwüstung" hätte handhaben können. Stattdessen schreibt der gute Mann: "Wüstwerdung". I don't get it.)

Ultra. I study english, and have had courses on translation, and you are advising not to always just use the first word that comes to mind. That said, in what world is Wüstwerdung better than Verwüstung? aaah.

15 hours ago, Elegy said:

Brandon has adressed this in one of his streams and said that the publisher wants the titles to sound more traditionally fantasy. But that's not a good justification. Heyne just doesn't care about giving the audience the best possible representation of the source material.

i think I remember hearing/reading somewhere - might've been the same stream - that Heyne's marketing tells them that titles like that would be more popular, which.. I guess.

"Kinder des Nebels" i see somewhat, Kinder do be born, so... eh. "des Feuers", that's Spook. Why is that Book 2?

am I glad I switched to English pretty quickly in the cosmere, I think Mistborn 1 is the only thing I read in german. Maybe Warbreaker too, not sure. speaking of Warbreaker, what the storms is "Sturmklänge"????

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1 hour ago, Benkinsky said:

am I glad I switched to English pretty quickly in the cosmere, I think Mistborn 1 is the only thing I read in german. Maybe Warbreaker too, not sure. speaking of Warbreaker, what the storms is "Sturmklänge"????

It's admittedly kinda brilliant how it literally means Storm Tones, which would work as a Rhythm of War title perfectly well. :D It's an interesting coincidence.

On a side-note, they actually went back changed the original name of the Hero of Ages translation. That was "Herrscher des Lichts" = "Ruler of Light", which didn't make any sense since the Hero of Ages is, well, the ruler of both light and darkness, not only of light. Now it's the literal translation of the original title, "Held aller Zeiten", which sounds kinda clunky but at least reflects the concept of the book. Interestingly, they did not change the stupid translation of Well of Ascension, they just left it as it is. Why, we will never know.

I guess it's what one should expect from the publisher who released countless series with names based on traditional fantasy races. "The Elves". "The Dwarves". "The Orcs". "The Trolls". I have no idea how many of those exist. I don't think they were the right choice in the first place . . .

That said, Brandon switched publisher for the most recent Mistborn books, they are now published by Piper. Last time I checked, they left some words in English for Bands of Mourning. They just called the Lord Ruler ... Lord Ruler. Literally, in a German book. The Heyne translation had him as "Oberster Herrscher" - "Supreme Ruler", which I have no problem with. Then again, I have no idea how they are going to manage translating the Cosmere broken up over several publishers. I have no idea how Piper translate the Shards. The German editions are so messed up.

I really wished I could recommend these books to German-speaking friends, but it's kinda hard. One of my friends finally started reading the Stormlight Archive, but in German, and it's literally impossible to discuss it with him without cringing every time he mentions "Sprengsel", Wüstwerdung" or "Strahlende Ritter" (accurate translation but it sounds really silly imo). Ah, well.

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Is anyone interested in hebrew translation?:D

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On 9/21/2021 at 5:01 PM, Elegy said:

Ruin = Ruin. This kind of works. It's an actual German word, but I'd say that more often than not, it refers to economic ruin in particular, which makes for a few weird moments when characters actually mean that at one point in Hero of Ages and use the word "Ruin" in that context (note that substantives in German are always capitalized, so there's factually no difference between the word for the Shard and the word for economic ruin, and they use it for both in the same book, which is kind of awkward). But as I said, it works okay and sounds good.

 

Whimy = Schrulle. Well, I guess it is the right word, in a way. But I also know the word "Schrulle" as an insult for a, well, whimsical person. That might be a regional thing where I'm from. But I literally whinced when I read that word referring to a Shard. That said, I also raised an eyebrow on Whimsy when reading the epigraph the first time, so I guess it kinda works? I summarize: I dislike it, but maybe it works.

Honor = Ehr. This is not a German word either. It was created using the same principle as "Bewahr" above. The German word for Honor is "Ehre". They cut off the last letter to make it sound more like a name. 

 

This is great! I'm trying to retranslate the way you describe how the word they chose is actually used most often in German back into English. 

Ruin in German is like if Brandon had gone with Bankruptcy as the English shard name. :) 

Schrulle is like kind of like "quirky", if quirky was almost always meant an insult (sometimes it is). Maybe "hippie dippie". "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" Shard. 

Ehr is like calling Honor "Hon" or "Hun". In English it is a shortened version of "Honey" when used a  term of endearment. Cultivation: "Hi Hon!"

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2 hours ago, Bnaya said:

Is anyone interested in hebrew translation?:D

Very much so, Hebrew as a language fascinates me, and I want all the translations I can get. 

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So, hebrew translations. I've read the books mostly in english because they are cheaper that way and it was wonderful way to work on my english. But I will wrote what I know.

Shards:

Preservation (english) | שימור [same meaning imo]

Ruin (english)| הרס [same]

Odium (english)| שנאה [=hatred]

Honor (english)| כבוד [respect, honor]

Cultivation (english)| טיפוח. [I guess it's fine, also mean taking shower or putting cream on the face..]

Dominion | שררה. [More like ministry]

Ambition | שאפתנות [exact translation]

Knights radiants:

Windrunners (english)| שועטי רוחות [wind = רוח. Gallop = שועט.]

Skybreakers (english)| שוברי שחקים [break=שובר. In hebrew there are multiple words for sky. שחקים is a poetic one.]

Dustbringers (english) | אבות אבק. [Dust fathers..]

Edgedancers (english)| מרקדי קצוות. [It's edges, plural]

Truthwatchers (english)| משגיחי אמת. [More like truth supervisers]

Lightweavers (english)| אורגי אור. [Exact translation]

Elsecallers (english)| קוראי האחרת. [The worst imo. More like "those who call to the other female". Cumbersome.]

Willshapers (english)| מעצבי רצון. [Can be translated Will designers. But also work for shapers]

Stonewards  (english)| שומרי אבן. [Stone guardians/protectors]

Bondsmith (english)| חרש כבלים. [For smith it's good translation. But it's more like "smith of ropes;-)" usually we don't use that word for abstract meaning.]

Dawnshard (english)| רסיס שחר.

Investiture| השקעה. [Like investment]

I'll add more but I need to check in the books.

All in all, hebrew is not a language for made-up fantasy names. The language has a seriousness to it and many of the names above sound ridiculous in hebrew imo. It gives them seriousness they do not intend to have, and in english they are much lighter. But maybe it's because I don't know english well enough.

Good night! (Or maybe afternoon for you)

 

 

Edited by Bnaya
Add few names
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5 hours ago, Bnaya said:

So, hebrew translations. I've read the books mostly in english because they are cheaper that way and it was wonderful way to work on my english. But I will wrote what I know.

Shards:

Preservation (english) | שימור [same meaning imo]

Ruin (english)| הרס [same]

Odium (english)| שנאה [=hatred]

Honor (english)| כבוד [respect, honor]

Cultivation (english)| טיפוח. [I guess it's fine, also mean taking shower or putting cream on the face..]

Dominion | שררה. [More like ministry]

Ambition | שאפתנות [exact translation]

Knights radiants:

Windrunners (english)| שועטי רוחות [wind = רוח. Gallop = שועט.]

Skybreakers (english)| שוברי שחקים [break=שובר. In hebrew there are multiple words for sky. שחקים is a poetic one.]

Dustbringers (english) | אבות אבק. [Dust fathers..]

Edgedancers (english)| מרקדי קצוות. [It's edges, plural]

Truthwatchers (english)| משגיחי אמת. [More like truth supervisers]

Lightweavers (english)| אורגי אור. [Exact translation]

Elsecallers (english)| קוראי האחרת. [The worst imo. More like "those who call to the other female". Cumbersome.]

Willshapers (english)| מעצבי רצון. [Can be translated Will designers. But also work for shapers]

Stonewards  (english)| שומרי אבן. [Stone guardians/protectors]

Bondsmith (english)| חרש כבלים. [For smith it's good translation. But it's more like "smith of ropes;-)" usually we don't use that word for abstract meaning.]

Dawnshard (english)| רסיס שחר.

Investiture| השקעה. [Like investment]

I'll add more but I need to check in the books.

All in all, hebrew is not a language for made-up fantasy names. The language has a seriousness to it and many of the names above sound ridiculous in hebrew imo. It gives them seriousness they do not intend to have, and in english they are much lighter. But maybe it's because I don't know english well enough.

Good night! (Or maybe afternoon for you)

 

 

They do have a seriousness to them in English, it is intended. 

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Having gone back and looked up some of the other terms in the Japanese translation, there's some interesting things that have been done with the Metallic Arts. Sadly we're a bit thin on the ground when it comes to Surgebinding due to most of the proper terms not appearing in the books until WoR, which hasn't been translated. As before, the romanization is in brackets. I'm going to use spoiler tags because this is likely to get very long.

Metallic Arts

Spoiler

Allomancy: 合金術 [Goukinjutsu]
Feruchemy: 伝金術 [Choukinjutsu]
Hemalurgy: 血金術 [Chikinjutsu]

Each of these shares the last two characters in common and that compound could be read as, basically, 'Metallic Art'. Or 'Technique' or 'Way or words like that. It makes it very obvious the magic systems are related in some way just by looking at them.

The first character is what distinguishes each, with the word in Allomancy meaning 'Join' or 'Synthesis' and when it's combined with the second character it's the Japanese word for 'Alloy' (合金) so as a translation for Allomancy it's quite good. There isn't furigana indicating that it's meant to sound like 'Allomancy' but a Japanese reader will see the word and get the same impression that an English reader does. The character used for the start of Feruchemy means 'Transmit' or 'Exchange', which is a decent way of conveying the way that magic functions, as you're exchanging some property you have now for being able to use it later. In what's probably an unintentional bit of wordplay, the same character is also the root word for 'Legend' so it gives an added sense of 'a legendary metallic art' which Feruchemy is to most people at the time of Era 1, in a sense. Lastly the word used at the start of Hemalurgy is 'Blood' so it works out to 'Blood(y) Metallic Art'.

Allomancy

Spoiler

Misting: 霧の使い  (Kiri no Tsukai)
Mistborn: 霧の落とし子 (Kiri no Otoshigo)

The word for Misting is literally 'Mist-User', with the latter part being a very common way to designate a person who does X. For example, it's used in the word 魔法使い [Mahoutsukai], where the first part means 'Magic' and the combination means 'Magician'. So it's a pretty good translation and the reader is going to get a sense of 'Okay, this is a fantasy magic relating to mist and this person uses it in some way'.

Mistborn is a bit more complicated; while the first part is still just 'Mist' the latter is a word with two different meanings: It literally means 'fallen child' and can refer to an illegitimate child (usually of a noble) but it can also refer to the end result of some great work or conflict. The first meaning fits really well since both prominent mistborn in the first book are the illegitimate children of a noble and all mistborn and mistings in Era 1 can trace their ancestry back to a noble in the last few generations. The second meaning also kind of works in the sense that a result could be said to be born from its cause, like the mistborn are (metaphorically) born from the mist.

Coinshot: コイン打ち [Coin Uchi]
Lurcher: 動かし屋  [Ugokashiya]
Pewterarm/Thug: 白鑞の腕 / 殴り屋 [Shirome no Ude / Naguriya]
Tineye: 錫の目 [Suzu no Me]
Rioter: かき立て屋  [Kakitateya]
Soother: なだめ屋 [Nadameya]
Smoker: けむり屋  [Kemuriya]
Seeker: さぐり屋  [Saguriya]

The first thing you'll probably notice is that all of these terms that end in -er in English end in the same character 屋; in this context it's a suffix designating someone who works as something. The word literally means 'House' so for example the word for 'Merchant' (商屋) is basically 'person who works at the shop'. The words preceding that suffix in each case are basically straight translations of the English word into Japanese. Ugokashi means 'to move', Kakitate means 'to stir up', Nadame(ru) means 'to soothe', Kemuri means 'Smoke' and saguri means 'probe' or 'sound out'. The one exception is the translation for Thug, naguri. That word means 'to hit' which is certainly descriptive of what they do.

Of the remaining words, Coin Uchi combines the katakana rendering of Coin (katakana being a script used mainly to sound out loanwords) with another word meaning 'to strike'. So basically 'Coin Striker'. The alternate term Pewterarm for a pewter misting and the word used for a Tineye are literal translations of those words into Japanese ('Pewter Arm' and 'Tin Eye').

Other Mistborn

Spoiler

Kandra: 変わり身族 (カンドラ)
Blessing of Potency: 能力の恵み [Nouryoku no Megumi]
Blessing of Presence: 存在の恵み [Sonzai no Megumi]
Blessing of Awareness: 認識の恵み [Ninshiki no Megumi]
Blessing of Stability: 安定の恵み [Antei no Megumi]

The word for Kantra has furigana indicating that it's meant to be sounded out like it's read in English. The underlying Japanese is Kawarimizoku, literally 'Body-changing Tribe'. The Blessing names are all direct translations into Japanese for the most part. Nouryoku means 'Ability' and Sonzai means 'Existence' which are pretty close in intent (or should that be capital-I Intent?) and the other two are literal translations of the English words.

Stormlight Archive

Spoiler

Spren: スプレン
Shardblade: 破片剣 [Hahenken]
Shardplate: 破片鎧 [Hahenkai]
Honorblade: 名誉の剣 [Meiyo no Tsurugi]
Almighty: 全能神 [Zennoujin]
Herald: 使徒 [Shito]

Spren is a sounding-out of Brandon's invented word and when referring to specific types, an appropriate Japanese word will be used as a prefix. For example Windspren are 風スプレン, Honorspren are 名誉スプレン etc. The words for Shardblade/Plate mean literally 'Shard Sword' and 'Shard Armor' and for bonus points, the word can also be read as 'Splinter', so it conveys some of the Realmatics of what Blade and Plate really are. The word for Honorblade literally means 'Sword of Honor'.

The translation for the Almighty is literally that with the suffix for 'God'. The word for Herald is used in Japanese to translate 'Apostle' and if you're an anime fan it might be familiar to you as the word in Neon Genesis Evangelion used to refer to the Angels in Japanese.

Surgebinding: 結束の技 [Kesshoku no Waza]
Surgebinder: サージ結束者 [Surge Kesshokusha]
Stormlight: 嵐光 (ストームライト) [Rankou]
Knights Radiant: 光の騎士 [Hikari no Kishi]
Windrunner: 風走り [Kazehashiri]
Dustbringer:塵運び [Chirihakobi]

Surgebinding is a literal translation meaning 'Binding Art' and Surgebinder combines the katakana for Surge (indicating it's a significant word) with a suffix turning it into 'one who binds'. I'm not sure why they didn't render the former as 'Surge-Binding Art' (サージ結束の技) but that's how the translation did it.

Stormlight is referred to using the kanji and the katakana words interchangeably, with the former sometimes being written without providing the latter in furigana (superscript), the word is a literal rendering of the English into Japanese so both are easily understandable to the reader and not a point of confusion.

The word for the Knights Radiant is literally 'Knight(s) of Light' or possibly 'Shining Knights'. The words for Windrunner and Dustbringer are literal translations into Japanese for an individual member and if you add 団 to the end of the word it turns it into 'Order of X'. I could probably make a decent guess at how the other eight Order names would have been rendered but they wouldn't be official.

Fabrial: ファブリアル
Lashing: 結束 [Kesshoku]
Old Magic: 古魔術 [Komajutsu]
Voidbinding: 無結束 [Mukeshhoku]
Dawnshard/Dawnchant: 夜明けのかけら/夜明けの語 [Yoake no Kakera/Go]

Fabriial is just a sounding out of the pronunciation. The word for Lashing is the same as the word for (Surge)Binding, so things might have gotten complicated with the usage if later books had been translated. The words for the three types of Lashings are direct translations: Basic (基本/Kihon), Full (完全/Kanzen, literally 'Complete') and Reverse (反転/Hanten) with 結束 added to the end of each. Old Magic is translated literally into Japanese and Voidbinding takes the same term used for Surgebinding but prefixes it with the word for 'Emptiness' or 'Void'. Dawnshard and Dawnchant are both fairly direct translations, with the former being another word for 'fragment' or 'shard' and the latter being literally 'Dawn Language'. I'm not sure why they didn't use the same rendering for all uses of 'Shard'.

Like I mentioned, there's not as much to work with in terms of things like Radiant Order names in Japanese but if you have specific terms you're curious about and they show up in Way of Kings, I'll try and track them down for you.

Oh, and I forgot to mention it in the earlier post but the word used to refer to the Shards of Adonalsium is 破片, the same word at the root of the translation for Shardblade/plate. So that's consistent.

Edited by Weltall
Added a few more terms
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On 22.09.2021 at 4:53 PM, Benkinsky said:

However, this one really gets me. It really, really shouldn't be. The reason english is such a good language for fantasy and translating from english to other languages is sometimes difficult is that english uses compound words, aka Windrunner, and not "runner of the wind" or something like that. I think roman languages do it like that. That enables english readers to see words like "steelpush" and "lightweaver" and such and get a grasp of what that entails quickly.

Now to the part that frustrates me: know what kind of languages do compounding? Germanic languages. English is one. You know what else is one? GERMAN.

"Die Tänzerin am Abgrund" is an insult to the art of translation tbh. Seriously, what the storm? Give me 5 Minutes and I'll have the orders as compound words.

I'm deliberately not putting the translations here to show how close the translations lie. See if you can figure out all ten.

WHAT.

I always were like "eh, German translations probably have it nice and easy since combining words is so bread and butter in their language" and now I read this.

It's horrific and a war crime. Like, a tremendous waste. They had one job. My deepest condolences.

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On 22.9.2021 at 0:01 AM, Elegy said:

So, German.

....

Ruin = Ruin. This kind of works. It's an actual German word, but I'd say that more often than not, it refers to economic ruin in particular, which makes for a few weird moments when characters actually mean that at one point in Hero of Ages and use the word "Ruin" in that context (note that substantives in German are always capitalized, so there's factually no difference between the word for the Shard and the word for economic ruin, and they use it for both in the same book, which is kind of awkward). But as I said, it works okay and sounds good.

Odium = Odium. This makes sense.

Invention = Invention. It's pronounced differently. I have no idea why they kept it - while Invention is a very usual word in English, noone ever uses the word Invention in a casual German conversation. The better word would be "Erfindung", in my opinion (which also keeps the double meaning of both the virtue of invention and an invention as a result of that virtue).

Devotion = Devotion. Same here - pronounced differently, and I have no idea why they didn't go with "Hingabe" or "Hingebung". Noone ever uses "Devotion" in casual conversation, in contrast to the English word. Now it gets weird:

Ambition = Ehrgeiz. The reason this is weird: "Ambition" is a word that is used frequently in German. Other than "Devotion" and "Invention", it is an actual word that people would know the meaning of without inferring it from an English word. Yet they went with a completely different word. The word that they used itself is the right one, and I have no problems with it. But it's so weird that they went with this word here of all places, when this would have been the only place where a "-tion" word could have been kept while keeping the meaning and impact of the original word. It's the exact other way around compared to what it should have been like (regarding Invention and Devotion)!

Dominion = Dominium. Another case of a kind of usual English word being translated with a word that few people in Germany will ever have heard of. "Herrschaft" would have been a good translation, although I guess that's more along the lines of "reign" (as a substantive). I don't dislike this translation though, it works for me personally.

Endowment = Gabe. This works very well, nothing to add. I guess that this is the reason they didn't go with "Hingabe" for Devotion, since that would have been too similar. Still, "Hingebung" would have been another option that would have been the same in meaning but not as similar to "Gabe" as a word.

Valor = Mut. Works well! I personally feel like "Mut" is more along the lines of courage, while valor would be better translated as "Tapferkeit", but I could be mistaken. So nothing to complain here, all good!

Mercy = Gnade. Also works well! Now we get to the really weird ones . . .

Whimy = Schrulle. Well, I guess it is the right word, in a way. But I also know the word "Schrulle" as an insult for a, well, whimsical person. That might be a regional thing where I'm from. But I literally whinced when I read that word referring to a Shard. That said, I also raised an eyebrow on Whimsy when reading the epigraph the first time, so I guess it kinda works? I summarize: I dislike it, but maybe it works.

Preservation = Bewahr --> Bewahrung. Another weird one. In the original translation of the Mistborn trilogy, Preservation was translated as "Bewahr". Note that this is not an actual German word. The actual translation for Preservation is "Bewahrung", but since that word doesn't sound like a name at all (well, just like the original word with its -tion, the equivalent of the German -ung), they cut off the last few letters. It's comparable to something like "Preser", I guess. Which, in my opinion, doesn't work at all and does not reflect the way the English original handles the Shard name, since that one doesn't shy away from straight away using a word which clearly isn't a name. It's also weird because Preservation is introduced along with Ruin, which, as explained above, stayed the same and is literally just a word (even one that is used within the same book!). Why do it differently with this one? In later translations, they apparently changed it. In Rhythm of War, they use the actual German word for it, "Bewahrung". Which makes the next one even weirder!

Honor = Ehr. This is not a German word either. It was created using the same principle as "Bewahr" above. The German word for Honor is "Ehre". They cut off the last letter to make it sound more like a name. As of the Edgedancer translation (which includes the Roshar essay from Arcanum Unbounded, mentioning the Rosharan Shards), released last year, they have not changed it. I don't know if they changed it for Rhythm of War. I couldn't check that because Honor is not mentioned in the letter, and I didn't know where to look for a mention that Shard. But as of the Edgedancer translation, they did not change it, while they changed Preservation, so now it's even more inconsistent than before, if that is possible. I don't think it's that bad, but certainly a bit irritating. Now for the weirdest of them all.

Cultivation = Bebauerin. Also going off of the Edgedancer translation. This is not a translation of the word Cultivation, it's a word for a female person who cultivates something. I have no idea what this is supposed to be and what it's doing here. Complete nonsense. The Shard isn't even a person, so why assign a gender to it? And even if you do that, why do it only here? It breaks what little is left of any sense of consistency.

Autonomy has not been translated yet. It will probably be translated as "Autonomie", which would be the best and easiest way to do it. But who knows, it seems it's impossible to predict.

Austrian here, I've only read all of the Cosmere books in English, so that topic is quite fun for me :D ranked from "like it" to "WTF":

Ruin, Gabe, Mut, Gnade, Ehrgeiz, Bewahrung: like all of them, honestly.

Ehr: well an E is missing at the end, that's weird. but everyone will get what it means. sounds a bit more like a name so I understand the choice of the translator 

Odium: I've never heard that word in German before, nor do i like the -ium ending (but I have that some complaint for the English name), I think Verachtung would fit quite nicely.

Invention: Fantasie or Erfindergeist would sound nicer, depending on what the actual shard's Intent will be like. Invention sounds very unusual in German.

Dominium: don't linke the -ium ending, -ium endings are very unusual in German but we have the verb dominieren so I guess that fits nicely.

Schrulle: hate this one. doesn't sound epic at all. What about Willkür? That's a much nicer word :P

Bebauerin: that must be a mistake right? the biggest problem for me (as @Elegy also mentioned) is the gender here. that's not consistent with shard names at all. why not use Kultivierung? don't get it.

On 23.9.2021 at 3:58 PM, Child of Hodor said:

Ehr is like calling Honor "Hon" or "Hun". In English it is a shortened version of "Honey" when used a  term of endearment. Cultivation: "Hi Hon!"

that made me smile. I do wonder if we get an interaction of Cultivation, Honor  and/or Odium somewhere in the Stormlight Archive books. I would love that.

Edited by Sandra
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