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TypicalShard

Kaladin and Sly's Relationship

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I've been re-reading the Stormlight Archive and Into the Sky, chapter 52 of Words of Radiance combined with The Last Day Chapter 81 has begun to bother me the more I think about it. 

Kaladin asks Sly if his skill with the spear is from her and calls it cheating. Sly, however, points out what he has trained with the spear every day for years. She further elaborates that it is both of them, together, and compares what she and Kaladin do to a genius of music picking up an instrument for the first time and finding music. I was fine with this, Sly gives Kaladin an edge allows him to focus more and move with the winds and just generally enhances his skill with the spear.

The problem for me is in Chapter 81 when Sly is "dead" and her bond with Kaladin is, at the very least, severely damaged. Kaladin tries to wield a spear and is utterly incompetent. Imo it goes beyond incompetence as he has difficulty with simple thrusts. It is like saying that both of them created or enhanced or developed his skill with a spear and then showing that it's all Sly. It irritates me all the more because Kaladin has legitimately trained with the spear for years and then without Sly he can't even do the basics.

I'm not saying I don't like Sly, frankly I don't think that's possible, but I am saying is that Sly seems to be THE factor in all of Kaladin's skill when it shouldn't be. It should be 50/50.

I'm posting this because I feel like I'm not correctly interpreting the scenes and I would like to see how other people interpret/view this to give me a better perspective.    

Edit (There was an edit button): 

I have dyslexia so little things like Sly instead of Syl tend to slip by. I'm kind of angry I missed this as I had re-read this comment over ten times before posting it.

Anyway, I don't know how to respond to everyone at once (is there a reply all?) but I do appreciate all the personal experiences shared and it has helped me put myself more in that position. I think I partially ignored Kaladin's metal state because of how he said he had lost people before and this was no different. This was most likely my greatest mistake when revisiting these chapters as Kaladin has never worked like this, idk how I skipped over how out of character those words where. Everyone's comments have helped me better understand what is happening within the chapters and I am grateful you took the time to comment your thoughts. 

Edited by TypicalShard
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When you're in a bad state of mind even simple tasks become almost impossible.

I've been running for almost six years now, but every once in a while I'll have days where I feel like I'm moving in slow motion.

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It's during the Weeping when Kaladin notes that he always struggles mentally, he's having an especially bad day on top of that because of what his actions have done to Syl and the moral dilemma he's wrestling with and he's got an injured leg on top of it all. It's literally that he's having one of the worst days of his life, nothing supernatural. See Rhythm of War for plenty of examples of how Kaladin can do just fine without his powers when he's not going through a horribly depressive phase.

Oh, and you might want to check your auto-correct because you managed to spell 'Syl' wrong every time. :P

Edited by Weltall
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35 minutes ago, TypicalShard said:

I've been re-reading the Stormlight Archive and Into the Sky, chapter 52 of Words of Radiance combined with The Last Day Chapter 81 has begun to bother me the more I think about it. 

Kaladin asks Sly if his skill with the spear is from her and calls it cheating. Sly, however, points out what he has trained with the spear every day for years. She further elaborates that it is both of them, together, and compares what she and Kaladin do to a genius of music picking up an instrument for the first time and finding music. I was fine with this, Sly gives Kaladin an edge allows him to focus more and move with the winds and just generally enhances his skill with the spear.

The problem for me is in Chapter 81 when Sly is "dead" and her bond with Kaladin is, at the very least, severely damaged. Kaladin tries to wield a spear and is utterly incompetent. Imo it goes beyond incompetence as he has difficulty with simple thrusts. It is like saying that both of them created or enhanced or developed his skill with a spear and then showing that it's all Sly. It irritates me all the more because Kaladin has legitimately trained with the spear for years and then without Sly he can't even do the basics.

I'm not saying I don't like Sly, frankly I don't think that's possible, but I am saying is that Sly seems to be THE factor in all of Kaladin's skill when it shouldn't be. It should be 50/50.

I'm posting this because I feel like I'm not correctly interpreting the scenes and I would like to see how other people interpret/view this to give me a better perspective.    

Remember that when a Spren forges a Nahel Bond with his/her Radiant, they're taking a part of them and giving something in return (this is stated by Syl to Kaladin). Loosing his Connection to Syl is utterly painful, for it rips a part of the Radiant soul (by my understanding, and from what happened to Teft when Moash killed Phendorana). Combine this with the fact that Kaladin had a lot of issues, plus the loss of his friends and his brother to Amaram, then it's no wonder that he cannot accomplish even the basics of spear fighting. I can talk from experience and the loss of someone can make you fail at even the most simple of tasks.

Edited by Legui01010
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Up until last year I threw the javelin in college (which I feel is a pretty close comparison to the spear). I had done fairly good throughout the year and qualified for the West Regional (preliminary rounds of the national championships) but I remember that at one meet I was having a personal relationship problem of my own. Nothing was different about me except my state of mind and I ended up performing my worst all season. I had even preformed better in high school. The fact Kal struggles to preform basic thrusts should speak more to the affect that the personal relationship has on him  rather than the affect the nahel bond relationship has on him. 

Edited by Shinwarrior
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Additionally to what was already said I'd like to throw in this WoB:
 
Quote

Questioner

Why is Kaladin so proficient-- Like naturally born to wield a spear. Is that a weapon he likes or is it a destiny for him?

Brandon Sanderson

So destiny is a strong term... I would say he has natural aptitude, but no more so than a normal person who has a natural aptitude for something. But the way the Spiritual Realm works in the cosmere and the way Connection works, there were certain things that were happening to Kaladin before they happened...

It's like Syl says in one of the books. "You didn't know me then, but I knew you then. Even though we hadn't met yet, I still knew you." You see some weird Connection things too. And these are mostly just for fun sort of cosmere connections. Like when you see Syl take on the look of Shallan standing on the beach. There's gonna be a connection there. It's forming, it doesn't exist yet, but all things are one in the Spiritual Realm, and we're just kinda seeing echoes of that. It's not meant to be destiny, it's more meant to be, "Hey there's little connections happening".

I would not say Kaladin is any more naturally gifted in that than your average professional sports player is naturally gifted in what they do.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

So there is some connection happening even before Syl (and sorry, I can't help myself but mention this, her name is Sylphrena and her nickname is Syl, not Sly :D) and Kaladin consciously met and came together.

I guess, though, that we should not forget that Kaladin did train hard after Tien's death.

As to why he failed when he tried in the training grounds there already are answers but besides his mental problems at this time he also was recovering from a serious physical injury what (as I can imagine) messed up his balance.
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1 hour ago, Weltall said:

It's during the Weeping when Kaladin notes that he always struggles mentally, he's having an especially bad day on top of that because of what his actions have done to Syl and the moral dilemma he's wrestling with and he's got an injured leg on top of it all. It's literally that he's having one of the worst days of his life, nothing supernatural. See Rhythm of War for plenty of examples of how Kaladin can do just fine without his powers when he's not going through a horribly depressive phase.

Oh, and you might want to check your auto-correct because you managed to spell 'Syl' wrong every time. :P

I have dyslexia so little things like that always slip by. I'm kind of angry as I re-read this comment over ten times before posting it and I still missed it.

Rhythm of War is the one Stormlight Book I have not yet re-read because of how recently I finished it.

Anyway, I don't know how to respond to everyone at once (is there a reply all?) but I do appreciate all the personal experiences shared and it has helped me put myself more in that position. I think I partially ignored Kaladin's metal state because of how he said he had lost people before and this was no different. This was most likely my greatest mistake when revisiting these chapters as Kaladin has never worked like this, idk how I skipped over how out of character those words where. Everyone's comments have helped me better understand what is happening within the chapters and I am grateful you took the time to comment your thoughts. 

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11 minutes ago, TypicalShard said:

Anyway, I don't know how to respond to everyone at once (is there a reply all?)

So the '+' button next to the quote button allows you to quote multiple people.

14 minutes ago, TypicalShard said:

but I do appreciate all the personal experiences shared and it has helped me put myself more in that position. I think I partially ignored Kaladin's metal state because of how he said he had lost people before and this was no different. This was most likely my greatest mistake when revisiting these chapters as Kaladin has never worked like this, idk how I skipped over how out of character those words where. Everyone's comments have helped me better understand what is happening within the chapters and I am grateful you took the time to comment your thoughts. 

Thanks

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1 hour ago, TypicalShard said:

I have dyslexia so little things like that always slip by. I'm kind of angry as I re-read this comment over ten times before posting it and I still missed it.

I apologize for my wisecracking (especially because I had missed that Weltall already told :(). Also, even without dyslexia I also can easily make typos, so don't worry. Sorry, again.

Thus: Don't be angry about yourself. :)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Meg said:

I apologize for my wisecracking (especially because I had missed that Weltall already told :(). Also, even without dyslexia I also can easily make typos, so don't worry. Sorry, again.

Thus: Don't be angry about yourself. :)

 

 

It's cool, I only brought it up because I like to be as clear as possible when I make mistakes and whatnot. Also I appreciate the words of encouragement. : D 

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This makes me think about the time Kaladin got into a fight when he was still living in Hearthstone. That's way before he meets Syl but he still fights like a badass. Some of it is the Thrill I suppose but he is still a natural born fighter*. So when he is later fighting without Syl (in addition to having a pretty bad day like others pointed out) he might have lost all confidence in himself, like he doesn't believe that he can thrust a spear. But he obviously can fight without Syl as we see in Rhythm of War.

*I might be misremembering, been a while since I read Way of Kings.

Edited by salka
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