Mid-Range Game 53: Unmade, Remade

[---]

1 hour ago, Droughtbringer said:

Well, thank you for having me then.

Is there a reason that he would need to mention that he had been in a recent LG with you? 

As for his vote on you... a hypothetical scenario

If I was Sja then I would probably have started this cycle trying to push the Kas lynch. It keeps the lynch away from me, I have justified reasons for voting on them because no one knows what Kas is, and it feels like it has potential. So I'd say that there is a decent chance that Sja is one of the people wanting to lynch Kas. I wouldn't say a super large chance, but my guess would be ~25% chance that Sja is one of you three.
That being said, villagers also have a pretty decent chance of wanting to vote on Kas, because, again, we have no idea what Kas is. 

All that's to say that I feel like his vote on you is fair. 

The recent long game is relevant because he ignores it and chooses to compare my play this gane to specifically a different, earlier game. 

I think Sja has no reason to vote Kas. Especially deoending on the player, they might specifically not want to be on a flipped wagon that early 

[Kasimir]

8 hours ago, Illwei said:

Kas. The perspective of TMI is exactly the pov that is needed and expected from an argument that is specifically trying to see what sja is thinking

 

Wrong and outright false. You're dodging the accusation. Everyone else is strategising about what Sja would do given various constraints. You are the only one specifically channelling a defensive Elim perspective. Thinking like an Elim doesn't involve thinking as though you're backed into a corner. Elan, Illwei. This is a crem dung conflation you're making.

8 hours ago, Illwei said:

Im not going to go through this. That'd be a waste of a wallpost that would be repetitive and boring to read, so I'm just going to say what i said above. That yes my argument assumed TMI. of course it did. Knowing the rational path and feeling the pressure as an elim are two things. 

 

"I don't have a counterargument so I'm going to assert I'm right because I'm Illwei." crem dung. "I can't engage, but whateve, that's not going to stop me." My previous short paragraph already pointed out there is a distinction between adopting a TMI perspective, thinking as a defensive Elim, and strategising for Sja. Everyone else is capable of distinguishing between the two, so why can't you? Suspicious. Illwei.

6 hours ago, Droughtbringer said:

I agree with this, if I was Sja I would want to convert night 1; giving more information, more actions, more chances to make the plays that will win you the game.

My point exactly. Drought and Elan are - openly at least - arguing for not making the kill N1 but neither of them are specifically talking like a defensive, cornered Sja when working out Sja's strategy. I call crem dung.

I still disagree. Even on the assumption Sja feels early conversion pressure, what does Sja have to lose by waiting for N2? Easily masked by a Cher kill. Easy to guess I'd still attract most of the discussion and attention the next day. Every single argument I've seen, including Illwei's, immediately supposes an argument to kill C1 is also an argument to kill C2, which is partly true by induction but also patently ridiculous because C2 is different in one crucial way: Cher kills C2, and can be induced to double kill by the right interactions. Moreover, Sja's overall game plan Edited to add, trailed off halfway: is obviously situational and will change. Relying on induction "Sja doesn't kill C1 so doesn't kill C2 and is suddenly cornered on  C3" in order to sell a Sja early conversion as the rational strategy is therefore intellectually dishonest.

5 hours ago, Illwei said:

My point being though that kas claiming suprise + him offering himself up + a converter d1 just. Fits. It doesnt risk failure. It what, takes away two charges? Thats honestly a lot but it leaves three which is good for 1, 2, or 3 converts iirc. And frankly with just one convert you alreasy have enough to be getting functionally two kills a cycle. 

Regardless of if he was sja or not, kas would almost always be my first pick convertee. 

Tldr; better hope Illwei is a conversion Elim because that's how you lose a game

It's a bloody stupid strategy either way you look at it. Sorry. I wish I could pull my punches but after two cycles of increasingly ridiculous crap from Illwei, I'm not bothering anymore. Player-wise, it's awful - I don't often stay off the radar, and haven't been playing this game quietly, which is a bad place for Sja to go. That's not even including the fact I haven't been Elim in forever and therefore don't know how to Elim. Conversely, even assuming a conversion (or mindgames), Sja has every reason to hit anyone except me, precisely because I've been mooted as a target. It's a good way to avoid attention.

I'm going to say that once I flip Village, I would lynch Illwei. I also think Drought is immediately suspicious, as is Az. Az is voting opportunistically and is a good place for a quiet Sja to hide; Illwei an aggressive Sja. I lean more strongly to a Drought Sja because on the assumption I flip Village, this is what will have happened:

You will all have realised that Sja has allowed a bad lynch to happen and specifically didn't convert me to allow the lynch. I think forcing the issue would be too on the nose for any Sja not Illwei, so this doesn't exonerate Illwei. Otherwise, I would look at Drought (for resisting this), potentially Araris (same position, but less involved), and Az for opportunism.

4 hours ago, Illwei said:

What do you think of Kas' progression on me, i mean. I know you dont know much about me but i was in an elim game with Kas as village more recent than LG 78, and so for him not to mention that is interesting to me. Adding that with his flip flop and blatant voting-me-becayse-i-voted-him.

 No, I'm voting you because I'm suspicious of you but spinning this to the thread as retaliatory voting to immediately nullify any points on you is a crap move or an Elim move. You can try to assert all you like but it's wishful thinking. Wishful thinking doesn't make me Evil as much as you want it to fit your narrative because you might otherwise have to...actually engage withy the game. 

How about: I was a converter Elim in LG6 and Illwei blatantly ignoring my behaviour there is interesting to me.

Yeah, that didn't fly, did it? Considering I was lolwhatevering LG80 and focusing on Wrath, and considering Illwei went to C2 me, I think it's amazingly Illwei-centric to assume I'd give a damn or have reason to actually remember much of that game beyond Elim Illwei pushing Chantara and then half-taking-it-back. Oh wait, you did say you want to make D2 Kas a thing, isn't it? Sure explains why most of your arguments about me are so speculative they might as well belong in a fiction anthology.

Edited to add: I'm going to say I'm down for being lynched this cycle if that's what it takes for you to lynch one of <Illwei, Drought, Araris, Az> off my flip. Knock yourselves out. But for the love of Odium, please look back at this one short sentence if nothing else - knowing my flip tells you a bit more about how Sja played C1, and they each embody a different Sja profile but are in places a specific Sja would want to be. Look also for those with low engagement with the lynch - these will be those who know it is a bad lynch and don't want to get involved.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Kasimir
Bolded Elan retraction for Ash to catch

[Elandera]

Illwei

I'm strongly opposed to a Kas exe because I don't believe he's Sja, and he would be a far better kill target than conversion. He's high-profile and everyone will be side-eying him all game if he doesn't die. 

Illwei's general tone is setting of alarm bells for trying to deflect suspicion. 

[Kasimir]

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Wrong and outright false. You're dodging the accusation. Everyone else is strategising about what Sja would do given various constraints. You are the only one specifically channelling a defensive Elim perspective. Thinking like an Elim doesn't involve thinking as though you're backed into a corner. Elan, Illwei. This is a crem dung conflation you're making.

I feel like I haven't made my point clear enough. And just because Illwei playing like DeathClutch or Cow or Hellscythe is really pissing me off doesn't mean I should channel the same 'lolwhatever i'm right lel kek' dismissive attitude, so I'm going to come in and do this again. Sorry Eiwlil, sorry guys, time to be professional about this.

1. I actually don't really give a frick about how correct Eiwlil is or thinks she is. Nothing is at stake with regard to debating about Sja-anat profiles so there is no point in jumping into the mudpit to brawl because the only correct profile is the profile that captures how Sja-anat is actually playing this game and how Sja-anat actually strategises and sees her strategic position. This only matters because I let myself be goaded into a pointless argument, and because it only matters insofar as that Eiwlil thinks it's weird that Mat and I and Araris think that Sja would kill D1.

There are good strategic reasons for Sja to kill C1 and to hold off. There are also good strategic reasons for Sja to grab a conscript C1 (allowing her faction to kill and convert simultaneously.) Ultimately, it's a Sja profile problem. The question isn't who is right about Sja, it's which profile maps best onto how Sja is playing and what how Sja is playing tells us about who Sja is and what constraints she faces or finds important.

I am alarmed by Eiwlil's wargaming and it's because Eiwlil's arguments on Sja's strategic reasoning are fundamentally predicated on Sja being cornered by C2 or C3 in a lynch with no recourse. But...why would she? Realistically, Village fog of war is a thing. A Villager reasoning about Sja working out her options has less reason to assume that coming under lynch threat on C3 is automatically a game-ender for Sja if Sja hasn't converted by then. Villagers bicker, lynch trains get pushback. Potential for a conversion (see: Even Cycle fog of war) makes matters worse for the Village because we simply have no clear insight as to what goes down C2.

To claim that projecting how an Elim behaves requires taking up the Elim's perspective is straightforwardly true. It is disingenuous of Illwei to claim this is what I'm arguing. I'm not - I think it is a basic requirement. I do think that if your thoughts on 'what Sja is going to do, what strategic constraints Sja is operating under' bake in assumptions about being backed into a corner C3, that's a bit more alarming. I don't see this as a natural assumption for a Villager trying to do Elim projection - you are very aware of how fog-of-war, exacerbated by conversions, influences Village behaviour and pushes it towards the chaotic.

It's that note that doesn't ring right to me and is driving my vote. That being said, I've received some information - more on that later.

2. On the supposition I am not Sja and not a convert:

The sudden push towards me, as I have argued, does not look good on Illwei, Drought, Araris, and Az. I add Elan to the list, because I am counterintuitive enough to suspect people voting for one of my suspects. The KGB is a circle of accountability.

I think it looks worse on Araris and Elan, potentially Mat, as Mat has flirted with the idea but ultimately backed off. Here's the issue. We are already supposing I am not Sja, and I am not a convert. Let's build another assumption into this model: that Sja converted C1 rather than played mindgames or was inactive.

Our assumptions so far require us to claim Sja did not convert me. Here's the question. What considerations would make Sja do that?

Clearly, Sja either felt - rightfully, I would argue - I was a waste of a conversion charge. Sja also likely knew or anticipated that leaving me alive would mean I would be a natural target of discussion and potentially the lynch the next cycle. The question then, is where this fits Sja's strategic calculus.

• With the exception of Illwei, I don't think Sja would spearhead my lynch. There's little to be gained from getting involved in a bad lynch, and my flip must surely render suspicion on at least one of those pushing my lynch. Az's vote, however, is opportunistic - buried in the noise with just enough distance to look reasonably engaged with the game but also to kick the train on. It's not a bad place to be as Sja or a convert. He is not, however, my strongest Sja candidate.
   
• I have previously said I think Drought is a good place for Sja to be. Pushing against my lynch is a good way to gain Village credit, while allowing for the lynch to happen anyway because Sja don't care. I'd file Elan and Araris in this category, as stacking a second vote on Illwei is also not a bad place for Sja to be, and still allows the chance to resist a bad lynch. However, I am less sold on this line of reasoning now. Suppose a conversion goes off on C2, or at least, the Village must assume so. Being vocally against a bad lynch carries with it less rewards and more risk than it would in a normal SE game. Namely, because what's to stop the Village from assuming next cycle that as someone who was against a bad lynch, Drought would surely be trusted, Sja would surely know this, and would surely convert Drought? Allowing my lynch, even as Sja pushes back against it, unnecessarily exposes her to the same line of reasoning used to damn me. That's not so good for her.
  
  Corruptions are pernicious precisely because we don't know when they go off (anymore, given the assumption a convertee exists) and therefore a player gaining trust does not mean they can be trusted the next cycle. TJ is correct to point out previously that players do not revise beliefs as much as they should, so Drought might still be a good place for Sja to be, but I think there's weak reason to expect Sja and her convert would prefer to be disengaged or weakly engaged with the lynch than taking a prominent position on it. Slightly higher credence on Elan or Araris.
   
• The above reasoning points me to Mat, but I think Mat is too high-profile a conversion choice, though nothing stops Mat from being Sja. I would also look once again at players like Elk or xino as potential convert options who aren't involved with this.

3. I received evidence earlier this cycle - or weak reason to think, I suppose, that three to four players in this game are unlikely to be Sja. It has been clarified to me that the set is bigger than I thought, and that one of them is potentially Illwei, so I am shifting to another candidate.

[|TJ|]

15 hours ago, Kasimir said:

But I'd say for me: (-) Mat, (-) TJ - weaker credences for them because I read them as being a bit more conventional in Elim doctrine though I could be wrong.

Hahahahaha, conventional elim play? I would have played this game as a serial killer xD Definitely made plans if I rolled Sja, I'd only use kills till I lost a life, and only then I'd start using converts :P.

14 hours ago, Illwei said:

Say I'm Sja. Someone is suspecting me D1, or is helping the village along to see its me. What do I do? Do i kill them? No, i convert them. The next day they work off of their suspicion of me, and its completely normal. Becuase d1s change easily with the more info you have. Now i have a trusted (by the village) companion. How neat. 

Now say I'm a different Sja. This time i dont think things through and kill that person who was suspecting me. What happens now? Well, if i dont want to die alone and lose the game, i should get in a convert this next cycle just in case someone kills me at night/eliminates me and I need to have a chance at my faction succeeding. So here comes day 2 and someone is much more set on me. Maybe day 3 by the time i convert someone. At this point i have a choice, to kill someone who is a threat, to convert someone who is a threat, to convert someone who is townread but not a threat, or to kill someone who is not a threat. And only one of these is the best move.

Sja doesn't have just these two options. Say no one suspects Sja D1. What then? It only has limited converts so it has to be judicious in using them. Say they prefer to go for roles over players. And even considering going after only suspected players, they don't just have to limit themselves to killing or converting players suspicious of them. Working off suspicion is not easy and quite simple to come off as fake. Dead players reads and posts are analysed. Third option would be to just.. leave the suspecting player alone [quite like what you did with me in LG80 :P]. Point is, even if optimal play seems like converting D1, there's a lot more factors to it, and it's fine if players prefer kill or convert.

Okay Kas has a lot of points here to add, but the most important one, which I agree with him, is @Illwei why would you think consider cases when someone is supecting sja? Why only those particular cases sprang to your mind and your argued from that POV?

Also, Illwei, @Azmine_king, @Tani and anyone else voting for Kas, we can easily find out if he's Sja by action economy. If he's sja, he's already trapped himself by claiming stormform. Anyone watches him taking an action and he's outed. So there's an easier way to find out without needing to vote out him.

Edit: 

14 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

3. I received evidence earlier this cycle - or weak reason to think, I suppose, that three to four players in this game are unlikely to be Sja. It has been clarified to me that the set is bigger than I thought, and that one of them is potentially Illwei, so I am shifting to another candidate.

Uhhh, what do you mean by this? Especially 'the set is bigger than I thought'?

Edited September 23, 2021 by |TJ|

[Kasimir]

17 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Uhhh, what do you mean by this? Especially 'the set is bigger than I thought'?

I had initially actually thought it was just one person  Specifically, that the evidence only indicated one particular player was unlikely to be Sja. You can probably infer why.

Edited to add:

17 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Hahahahaha, conventional elim play? I would have played this game as a serial killer xD Definitely made plans if I rolled Sja, I'd only use kills till I lost a life, and only then I'd start using converts :P.

I actually consider this to be the conventional doctrine, TBH  

Edited to add 2:

17 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Also, Illwei, @Azmine_king, @Tani and anyone else voting for Kas, we can easily find out if he's Sja by action economy. If he's sja, he's already trapped himself by claiming stormform. Anyone watches him taking an action and he's outed. So there's an easier way to find out without needing to vote out him.

First, BAM could also have scanned me to be stormform. Though this would say nothing about convert status. Second, this is actually true regardless of whether I am a convert because Sja would likely want me to make the kill if so - that's the main advantage of an early conversion, really. That being said, we're back to a IKYK for an action scanner because suppose the action scanner revealed themselves.

• If I'm Sja, I'm down three or four charges because of C1. The lynch kills me. End of.
   
• If I'm not Sja, Sja is down one or two charges because of C1. The action scanner is an obvious kill or convert since Sja cannot be roleblocked, and the action scanner is a bigger threat than BAM anyway. That could be a non-promising play from the action scanner's perspective - convert Kas versus losing action scanner isn't necessarily the best pay-off. Would require the action scanner to have a PM with someone else, but then you run conversion risk.

Third, bold to depend on an action scanner when there's no guarantee there's one in the game or that they're even active  Though to be fair, I feel like a conversion game with zero scanners of any sort is weighted too heavily against the Village so it's probably a reasonable bet we have both.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Kasimir

[Araris Valerian]

51 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Araris

I think I understand just about all of your post except the part where you are voting for me. No need to write another giant post, maybe just a sentence or two of clarification to help a bear of Very Little Brain out? My push this turn has been away from you and toward the low actives + Tani.

[Kasimir]

3 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

My push this turn has been away from you and toward the low actives + Tani.

That's why  I think it's a good place for Sja or a convert to be! Safe side-vote on Tani. What's not to like?

Two most likely options, in my view:

1. Hide on Kas train late -> second, third voter position, emphasis third.

2. Disengaged from train but also points out Kas is Not The Best of Ideas -> Elan, you, a number of inactives. TJ is technically a late arrival and disengaged, Mat has flirted with the idea but is not serious about it.

Edited to add: Yet.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Kasimir

[Araris Valerian]

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks. Wishing I had a PM with you about now. @Dai-Gonarthis, @Envoy Spren, hook me up? (assuming Kas doesn't convince y'all to murder me)

[---]

6 hours ago, Elandera said:

Illwei's general tone is setting of alarm bells for trying to deflect suspicion. 

I simply am not accepting the suspicion. Its bad reasoning and therefore i wont have it. 

Theres no subtle deflection

I am refusing to interact with Kas until he comes to his senses

@|TJ|

You interact with my first points but not my second?

[Mat]

Yeah not voting Kas okay

I'm happy parked on Tani. Killing Illwei feels mean even though the last time I said that she was evil :P.

[Kasimir]

26 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I simply am not accepting the suspicion. Its bad reasoning and therefore i wont have it. 

Theres no subtle deflection

I am refusing to interact with Kas until he comes to his senses

Indeed, truly a Villager response. Unable to respond, the subject simply chooses to deflect or to ignore all accusations, hoping to brazen past suspicion by sheer force of will.

[|TJ|]

26 minutes ago, Illwei said:

You interact with my first points but not my second?

These?

18 hours ago, Illwei said:

- killing someone who is a threat eliminates them from the game, obviously

 - killing someone who is not a threat means that threat stays alive and active. Closer to me dying

 - converting the threat means that they have to change their reads. Change them further on into the game when that could be seen as more suspect than earlier on. This will lead to both sja and their convertee being outed 

 - converting someone else leaves the same problem as killing them. 

When the kill would almost be random otherwise, theres no reason to kill insstead of convert

Again, all these points are under the assumption that Sja-anat is under some form of thread in D1. Each of the points are correct, so Sja-anat under the thread of suspicion, will most likely choose the convert path. But why are we assuming that Sja-anat is under some threat in D1. Why did you take that assumption?

Also, why are you voting for Kas? We can clear or kill him mechanically.

[Azmine_king]

15 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Hot take: Tani converted Illwei

Illwei has been towny, but her playstyle also seems off than recent games so I'm really torn.

 

Kas

[Chantara]

Sorry things have been absolutely crazy in my life and I've just been too exhausted to even read the thread. I keep opening it and then closing it after reading just a couple posts. XD

I'm caught up now with the thread, more or less. I may have skimmed some for time's sake, so forgive me if I miss something.

Illwei is active as ever, but I'm not getting an absurd amount of elim vibes from her.

Kas, that was an interesting move you made having everyone vote for you. On one hand, maybe we should do it again and just be sure of who you are, on the other, you may have proved your point and been the right call for C1.

I'm interested in this Tani is Sja hot take, but I want to go back and read again the reasoning for it.

These seem to be the top votes this cycle. Does anyone have a VC?

Still deciding who to vote for....-.-

[Mat]

2 minutes ago, Chantara said:

I'm interested in this Tani is Sja hot take, but I want to go back and read again the reasoning for it.

Don't waste your time, there isn't any  

[---]

54 minutes ago, Azmine_king said:

Illwei has been towny, but her playstyle also seems off than recent games so I'm really torn.

 

Kas

You always think its off lmfao

 

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Indeed, truly a Villager response. Unable to respond, the subject simply chooses to deflect or to ignore all accusations, hoping to brazen past suspicion by sheer force of will.

Youre tunneling me. Whether its a villager or not, who knows. But its pointless to even acknoledge your points against me

--

Still people dont interact with what i think is the most important point which is that if sja has a teammate, they can FUNCTIONALLY SILENCE TWO VILLAGE VOICES EACH CYCLE

Convert and kill. 

Which is why sja never kills d1

I almost want to tr mat for not thinking it through enough

--

Also im blatantly not sja and i wouldnt be converted this game because of how often i get mislunched. There is 0 reason to lynch me in this game.

--

Edit:

Also, for everyone saying it was the right call to vote kas yesterday: youre wrong. You can argue whatever you want but in the end the d1 lynch is about getting information. And we have no more information than last cycle. Oh, whats that? We know kas is down a life? Well woohoo! If hes village hes down a life and is an easier nk and if he's not then hes still not dead and everyone is village reading him for it. Woo. Hoo. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Illwei

[Ashbringer]

Current Vote Count:

• Tani (2): Matrim's Dice, Araris Valerian
• Kasimir (2): Tani, Illwei
• Illwei (1): Elandera
• Araris (1): Kasimir

 

Just about halfway done with the cycle. 

[---]

Kasimir

Araris

Edited September 23, 2021 by Illwei

[Azmine_king]

4 hours ago, Illwei said:

You always think its off lmfao

Thats fair, but usually im right!

25 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Kasimir

Araris

You go from voting someone, to voting with them?

[Araris Valerian]

1 hour ago, Azmine_king said:

Thats fair, but usually im right!

You go from voting someone, to voting with them?

I somehow read this as Illwei’s original voting post and was very confused.

The various exchanges with Illwei have made me lean towards agreeing with Kas; I already had different conclusions about the convert/kill decision than Illwei (which I mentioned briefly), and the point about coming from the POV of Sja being threatened fits with that difference. If it comes down to an Illwei/someone else vote at the end of the day, I’ll likely vote Illwei. But I’m going to chill on Tani for now.

I haven’t really thought through how Sja!Kas might play the game, but I doubt he would a gambit like he would have had to do here, if only because it doesn’t mesh with quiet RP that well. Honestly, putting yourself in the spotlight D1 is a great way to end up dead fast, and Kas is generally a rational fellow (except when porches are involved), so that doesn’t really fit with him being elim (and probably not a great conversion target either, at least not yet).

[---]

1 hour ago, Azmine_king said:

Thats fair, but usually im right!

You go from voting someone, to voting with them?

Its called pocketing look it up

[Droughtbringer]

2 hours ago, Illwei said:

Its called pocketing look it up

Quote

pock·et

/ˈpäkət/

verb

gerund or present participle: pocketing

1. put into one's pocket.

Done.

18 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Wrong and outright false. You're dodging the accusation. Everyone else is strategising about what Sja would do given various constraints. You are the only one specifically channelling a defensive Elim perspective. Thinking like an Elim doesn't involve thinking as though you're backed into a corner. Elan, Illwei. This is a crem dung conflation you're making.

Okay, fair. Maybe Sja is going for the Serial Killer game, but I just don't see that being a valid play. Converting someone is a way to multiply your power.

If you have 5 charges, and two charges are taken by a lynch, and a conversion takes maybe 2 charges, maybe 1 charge then converting someone will give you either 
1. Converting an non-unmade: You get an extra slot for actions, possibly another role (any of the spren roles), and the lynch is less effective against your faction as a whole*.
2. Converting an Unmade: You get an extra slot for actions, another 'powerful' role, and don't loose any anti-lynch strength.

*Sja can survive with 5 charges 3 lynches, each removing 2 charges. But if they manage to convert non-unmade then there are more lynch targets that each take a separate lynch to be able to kill, making it harder to lynch the elim team. 

Personally, if I were Sja playing a conversion game, I would be converting as that just feels like it would be playing the game the right way. When I play a game with cool mechanics I really, really enjoy messing around with them. Is it possible Sja has decided not to convert? Definitely. But I really hope that they do convert, it's a cool game, a cool mechanic, and I really want to see the havoc that it reaps.

I hope I've explained that thought line well enough to have it make sense, I can take another crack at it if I did poorly. 

7 hours ago, Chantara said:

I'm caught up now with the thread, more or less. I may have skimmed some for time's sake, so forgive me if I miss something.

More than fine! We're just happy to have you here. 

While we're at it I'm going to ping the less actives and see if that encourages them to respond. 

@xinoehp512 - Don't believe we've seen you yet today, but it looks like you've been active a bit on the Shard.
@The Unknown Order - I think you've only posted once so far
@Elkanah - Last cycle you said you wished you spent more time accusing people, care to come back and cast some accusations? 

It looks like everyone has posted at least once which is great. But more activity is always better!

 

In other notes, I feel like I should throw down a vote. The cycle is coming close enough to the end that not having a vote at this point is pointless. 

• Tani (2): Matrim's Dice, Araris Valerian
• Kasimir (1): Tani,
• Illwei (1): Elandera
• Araris (2): Kasimir, Illwei

I'm not a fan of the lynch on Tani, there's almost no reason to it, and I have a pretty good gut read on Araris at the moment. My gut is leaning elim on Illwei, but it is likely because of their playstyle. Kasimir I could see lynching, but I think that just the amount of discussion that he brings up (both with his posts and with his existence at this point) is useful. I don't want to vote on anyone who hasn't posted much as I'd like to both get more reads on them and let them play a bit before we murder them...

So I guess that really leaves @Matrim's Dice. You have quite a few posts, but haven't contributed much in the way of your reads. Quite a few of your posts have been shorter, with very little insight to why you're doing what you're doing. That could be a pretty solid place for any Elim to hide; not enough of your thoughts to be read, but active enough to not appear to be hiding.

Matrim's Dice

 

So vote count at the end of this post would be
 

• Tani (2): Matrim's Dice, Araris Valerian
• Kasimir (1): Tani,
• Illwei (1): Elandera
• Araris (2): Kasimir, Illwei
• Matrim's (1): Drought

[Mat]

4 minutes ago, Droughtbringer said:

So I guess that really leaves @Matrim's Dice. You have quite a few posts, but haven't contributed much in the way of your reads. Quite a few of your posts have been shorter, with very little insight to why you're doing what you're doing. That could be a pretty solid place for any Elim to hide; not enough of your thoughts to be read, but active enough to not appear to be hiding.

Matrim's Dice

Fair but what do you want me to do?  I’m kinda busy irl right now and have some other things that make keeping track of what’s going on harder than normal, and finding a lot of elim reads in a game where yesterday there was one elim is difficult… I have stronger village reads but annoyingly I can’t trust those for long

Currently that’s Kas/Illwei/you in the would not kill bubble. Araris I have absolutely no clue which is a problem and I agree that the peripherals are a good spot for elims to hide. Hence the Tani vote though I feel like I should probably change that. Maybe to xino…?

Idk the fact that there’s a significantly smaller chance that any given person is evil is tripping me up  I understand your read and honestly kind of agree I’m playing elimmy rn as well.

[Droughtbringer]

44 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Fair but what do you want me to do?

Uhh... Drop everything that you're doing that's keeping you busy and just spend the rest of the week focused on this game and nothing else? That's fair, honestly. There's not tons of time left in the cycle, and with a rough schedule... yeah. If you wanted to post your village reads and why that would be much appreciated. I couldn't say if that would have me remove my vote on you, but it would at least give us more information.