Dawnshard Theory

[Zoey]

So we know there are Four Dawnshards and 16 Shards, and the Akinah Mural implied they could be seperated into four groups of four. And we do know that the Shards were to some degree effected by the Dawnshards (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/456/#e14677)

We know one of the Dawnshards is Change, this can be connected to Ruin and Cultivation, Endowment, possibly Invention

If another is the opposite of this, like how Allomantic Metals have opposites in a sense, we can assume Stasis. Which would connect to Preservation, possibly Honor, 

 

Change:

1. Ruin: Is inevitable change and decay, entropy
2. Cultivation: Lets people grow and advance
3. Endowment: Resurrects and Gifts people to let them grow and change the future
4. Invention: "the action of inventing something, typically a process or device." or "Creative Ability", these both fit very well with the idea of change and development

Stasis:

1. Preservation: Actively works to keep things in stasis and prevent change
2. Honor: Is all about oaths and laws and keeping to them
3. Dominion: Is possibly about keeping authority and having others function according to law

 

This is all that I can think up for this so far, though Autonomy, Odium, Ambition, and Whimsy seem to possibly share traits of living for oneself and ones passions and desires. 

 

[NameIess]

I would theorize  that stasis is actually Stability. Presevation is basically already stasis, and it doesn't make sense to me to have a shard with the same intent as a Dawnshard.

 

[twenty second of the sun]

19 minutes ago, Nameless said:

I would theorize  that stasis is actually Stability. Presevation is basically already stasis, and it doesn't make sense to me to have a shard with the same intent as a Dawnshard.

 

going with the stability motif , i think honor would go with that 

[Josi]

I think that is a good theory and the allocations of the Shards seem to match up. We know that Harmony holds Preservation and Ruin, but what if he can't act as much as he would like, not just because the Shards oppose each other, but because they come from different groups/Dawnshards. To me, it would make sense that all the Shards in their group together could enhance each other's powers. 

[Quantus]

I agree more or less but I think the 4 dawnshard will correspond to the four quadrants of the allomantic table, consistent with my old Quadrant Theory of Shardic Intents.  Under that framework the Change dawnshard is the Temporal Quadrant, but I think I'd still place Ruin in the Physical Quadrant (Im guessing it will be a "BE" Dawnshard).

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Quantus

[LewsTherinTelescope]

I haven't settled on a specific full theory, so gonna put this one out just for discussion: recently, I've liked to consider the idea of a kind of "Choose" Command with:

• Autonomy: obvious how this would fit
• Honor: Brandon's said that Honor is not just rules, but specifically choosing to be bound by rules that you would not have to be bound by if you didn't want to. And the Stormfather has his thing about how oaths are the mark of intelligence and free will, for the same reason, that Honor is rules you choose to take upon yourself willingly. So Honor could make sense as part of this, perhaps.
• Endowment: Not only is it gifts given of your own will, but apparently the reason Breath can be taken off-world is because gifts come without strings attached is part of the nature of Endowment and so a lot of the Connection that could hold it back is removed. This idea that ultimately, the gifts cannot come with requirements or restrictions, but also can only be given if one wants to give it, is a very free-will-oriented version of the idea.

Though again, this is merely an idea I've liked but haven't fully thought through, and am curious to see other takes on.

6 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I think I'd still place Ruin in the Physical Quadrant (Im guessing it will be a "BE" Dawnshard)

Tbh I'd be incredibly shocked if Ruin were anything but CHANGE, with how much it's been emphasized that that idea is the true core behind it.

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

I  never understood why Vin couldn't hold the Ruin Shard.

Brandon Sanderson

I could see a world where Vin maybe could have done it. But the trajectory she was on was opposed to it. Vin could have understood and become it. But what are the things that are keeping her? Vin, I don't think accepts, number one, that decay has to happen. She's experienced it a lot. But there's that piece inside her that doesn't want that to happen, doesn't want things to change, does not want people to leave her. I think that would be--if you read through, that's the soul, sort of, center event is, "Don't leave me, don't go away, don't change." And this is diametrically opposed to Ruin. People focus on the fact that she's good at killing and she is. But that heart, that soul...Ruin is more about things changing and decaying, than even about destroying.

DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 29, 2019)

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Technically, Ruin would be most compatible with Cultivation. Ruin's 'theme' so to speak is that all things must age and pass. An embodiment of entropy. That power, separated from the whole and being held by a person who did not have the willpower to resist its transformation of him, led to something very dangerous. But it was not evil. None of the sixteen technically are, though you may have read that Hoid has specific beef with Rayse. Whether you think of Odium as evil depends upon how much you agree with Hoid's particular view.

General Reddit 2013 (March 14, 2013)

Quote

He reached out and touched the mist, and felt an awesome power. A power of stability. To the side, the other corpse—the one he didn’t recognize—was also leaking something. A deep black smoke. Sazed reached out with his other hand, touching the smoke, and felt a different power—more violent. The power of change.

Quote

Nothing can be destroyed, Kelsier, Ruin’s voice whispered, intruding directly into his mind. That’s something humans can’t understand. All things merely change, break down, become something new … something perfect.

(That last one especially is interesting, as the idea with Rysn's Dawnshard seems to be the idea of specifically remaking yourself to be something new and better, and whaddayaknow, that's exactly what Ruin sees its duty as being.)

[Quantus]

6 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I haven't settled on a specific full theory, so gonna put this one out just for discussion: recently, I've liked to consider the idea of a kind of "Choose" Command with:

• Autonomy: obvious how this would fit
• Honor: Brandon's said that Honor is not just rules, but specifically choosing to be bound by rules that you would not have to be bound by if you didn't want to. And the Stormfather has his thing about how oaths are the mark of intelligence and free will, for the same reason, that Honor is rules you choose to take upon yourself willingly. So Honor could make sense as part of this, perhaps.
• Endowment: Not only is it gifts given of your own will, but apparently the reason Breath can be taken off-world is because gifts come without strings attached is part of the nature of Endowment and so a lot of the Connection that could hold it back is removed. This idea that ultimately, the gifts cannot come with requirements or restrictions, but also can only be given if one wants to give it, is a very free-will-oriented version of the idea.

Though again, this is merely an idea I've liked but haven't fully thought through, and am curious to see other takes on.

Tbh I'd be incredibly shocked if Ruin were anything but CHANGE, with how much it's been emphasized that that idea is the true core behind it.

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(That last one especially is interesting, as the idea with Rysn's Dawnshard seems to be the idea of specifically remaking yourself to be something new and better, and whaddayaknow, that's exactly what Ruin sees its duty as being.)

Damn, that's a strong argument!

Here I thought Ruin was one of the few that wouldnt move in the 2.0 version.  

 

 

EDIT:  Ive been struggling to figure out which sort of Command would best fit the Cognitive realm, and I think you might be on to something with Choose.  I had BE and CHANGE for the physical and temporal, respectively, and was leaning toward something like "I AM" or "ME" or something that implied not just existence but thought, not just Being but having a subjective point of view about it. CHOOSE really works for that.  Still struggling with the Spiritual version, BOND or JOIN or whatever seem to limited and focused on the Connection aspect of it.  

Edited September 10, 2021 by Quantus

[Halyo_Alex]

3 hours ago, Quantus said:

till struggling with the Spiritual version, BOND or JOIN or whatever seem to limited and focused on the Connection aspect of it.

I mean, at the risk of sounding a bit cheesy... "UNITE"?

[Quantus]

11 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I mean, at the risk of sounding a bit cheesy... "UNITE"?

That's the issue, that would be perfect for 1 of the 4 in that quadrant, and the other would each be arguably it's opposite.  I havent been able to come up with anything that encapsulates all sides of it.

[HSuperLee]

6 hours ago, Quantus said:

Damn, that's a strong argument!

Here I thought Ruin was one of the few that wouldnt move in the 2.0 version.  

 

 

EDIT:  Ive been struggling to figure out which sort of Command would best fit the Cognitive realm, and I think you might be on to something with Choose.  I had BE and CHANGE for the physical and temporal, respectively, and was leaning toward something like "I AM" or "ME" or something that implied not just existence but thought, not just Being but having a subjective point of view about it. CHOOSE really works for that.  Still struggling with the Spiritual version, BOND or JOIN or whatever seem to limited and focused on the Connection aspect of it.  

For the spiritual quadrant, I know a name that's been proposed in other theories is LIVE. Could that potentially work? I understand its similar to the BE of the physical quadrant, but I also gravitate towards it being one of the Dawnshards due to the nature of investiture to spontaneously develop sentience and push things more towards life.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 9/10/2021 at 3:29 PM, HSuperLee said:

I also gravitate towards it being one of the Dawnshards due to the nature of investiture to spontaneously develop sentience and push things more towards life.

I go back and forth on this, tbh. I think currently, I lean towards it being inherent to Investiture (that or implied as part of the Intent behind all four), being required for it to interpret and carry out the Commands in the first place, but I don't feel strongly on it.

[Frustration]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:53 AM, Quantus said:

That's the issue, that would be perfect for 1 of the 4 in that quadrant, and the other would each be arguably it's opposite.  I havent been able to come up with anything that encapsulates all sides of it.

there is a line from Elantris, "...hatred can unify men far more quickly and far more powerfully than devotion ever could."

So for theoretical UNITE, we have: Honor, Odium, Devotion, and Dominion.