Legui01010

Great War in the Cosmere? What does El mean? [Discuss]

30 posts in this topic

On 9/7/2021 at 8:54 AM, Weltall said:

One parallel that's interesting on a quick skim but I haven't had time to really dive into the theology to confirm it: Apparently the Mormon conception of Lucifer is somewhat similar to this, where he came up with a plan that would have resulted in the salvation of all humans but without moral agency (and in return he'd get all the glory as well). When God rejected it, Lucifer rebelled. That sounds on first glance very similar to Odium in general being very selfish, Taravangian's desire to save everyone and Rayse!Odium trying to get people to surrender their moral agency to him, like we saw when he tried tempting Dalinar at the end of Oathbringer.

That's pretty much exactly how the doctrine goes. Lucifer misunderstood the purpose of mortal life, thinking it was just about how people acted. He didn't realize we needed the ability to screw up and learn from our mistakes in order to change into more godly people. 

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On 08/09/2021 at 4:21 PM, Legui01010 said:

Unity could be a Splinter of Honor, maybe held by the Stormfather after the Splintering of Honor?

Interesting. I had always assumed Unity would either be something big than Honour (H+C+O, H+O+Dor, H+Ambition...) or something completely different (typically a Dawnshard) but it's indeed possible it's a subpart of Honour. Though if it is more likely the part of Honour the Stormfather didn't take, Dalinar reportedly ascended which implies there was an influx of power from somewhere. If it was Dalinar's 5th Oath I'd accept they could be close enough that they could both hold the same (half)Shard at once, but they're not. And I think having all of Honour's scattered power coalesce into Dalinar would be a lot more scary than him sharing Unity with the SF.

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Also, another reason for me to believe that Cultivation had some implication in the death of Tanavast, is the fact that not all Vessels are aligned with the Intent of the Shard they posses, resulting in the mental and emotional change of the Vessel, the best example of this is Ati when he held Ruin, he was supposed to be one of the kindest persons there was, until he Ascended.

Tanavast reportedly only changed when he was almost dead and Cultivation still loves him

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56 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Tanavast reportedly only changed when he was almost dead and Cultivation still loves him

Did not know this, thanks!

56 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Interesting. I had always assumed Unity would either be something big than Honour (H+C+O, H+O+Dor, H+Ambition...) or something completely different (typically a Dawnshard) but it's indeed possible it's a subpart of Honour. Though if it is more likely the part of Honour the Stormfather didn't take, Dalinar reportedly ascended which implies there was an influx of power from somewhere. If it was Dalinar's 5th Oath I'd accept they could be close enough that they could both hold the same (half)Shard at once, but they're not. And I think having all of Honour's scattered power coalesce into Dalinar would be a lot more scary than him sharing Unity with the SF.

Dalinar has only sworn his 3rd Oath, which is incredibly terrifying. The fact that he is already this powerful with just 3 Oaths is unnatural, no wonder Honour kept a close look at the Bondsmiths and Ishar. All this brings another interesting point, and that would be Kaladin. The fact that the SF refers to him as the Child of Tanavast, and WoB confirms that it has significance, this all could mean that Kaladin is in possession of another Splinter (inherited or maybe planted on him by Cultivation?), without him and Syl realizing it. Dalinar sounds like a really worthy Vessel for Honour, if all the splinters are reunited, but Kaladin seems like another possible Vessel.

Edited by Legui01010
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If Dalinar is only Unity when the Realms are united, maybe this is a result of Spiritual timelessness- a future where Dalinar holds Unity is likely enough that it is basically present in the Spiritual.

I'd expect Unity to be either the Dawnshard that binds or the Shard you'd get by reuniting Honor's Splinters (or most of them) with Dalinar as a Vessel.

I think it's said that the Stormfather is Honor's largest remnant, so I can't see there being an Unity Splinter important enough to impress Odium.

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On 9/9/2021 at 2:35 PM, mathiau said:

Tanavast reportedly only changed when he was almost dead and Cultivation still loves him

I do think he could have been basically dead/dying, so she helped 'mercy' kill him, like she didn't want to see him struggle. Like killing off the dead part of a plant so it can regrow/grow stronger.

I do feel like Odium's weakness will be Karbranth. Something is going to end up happening to it, and he is going to fail at the deal that he made, which will cause him to end up hurting.

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