Jump to content

Shallan's Soulcasting [discussion] [spoilers]


RadiantFox

Recommended Posts

I've been thinking about Shallan and her weakness in soul casting.

To use lightweaving Shallan finds drawing helps. And subjects she's drawn "as they could be" do tend to change as a result, largely because they like the image they see more than how they've been.

In book 2 I believe she even began discussing sketches as living, and as buds of souls clipped free and all this dramatic stuff. Even Veil and Radiant came out of her drawing herself as she could be, and wanted to be.

But radiant and veil aren't simply illusions, nor does she really exhibit true DID symptoms until she read more into them (yes I know real life reasons for that one, but it still affects canon).

 

I believe because they are soulcast versions of herself who become more unstable when she's less sure of who she is and wants to be, and who cannot truly coexist with her (as identity seeks to be one in all three realms). Even her perception of them as symptoms of mental illness likely affected how they functioned according to how she/they saw her/themselves. 

 

But beyond herself she changed bluth, elhokar, possibly all the deserters really.

On a tangent of Shallan sketching powers here's a couple less related oddities I've seen.

1) her tendency to really want to draw people right before they (presumably) die. Yalb, jasnah, bluth, elhokar. Even capsule to a degree (though he had asked her. Odd how she took an image of him when they first met, but never put it to paper. Guess she got busy, but she did say having the images in her mind made it cluttered and harder to focus or think, so it's still odd to me).

It feels like something from the spiritual realm compels her (not unlike the effects an unmade or even another ancient and powerful spren may have. Not enough to really know what's happening, too much of a pattern to be nothing)

2) her ability to glimpse into shadesmare unconsciously while drawing. Specifically by having cryptics invade sketches she's doing of people who are plotting or being deceitful (taravangian and capsule, I think there was another though. I don't think elokhar, though he should have been followed by a cryptic since before they even met considering his complaints of seeing symbol heads in mirrors way back in book 1 marking it as another oddity of her power really. Though she could just control that aspect of it better by book 3).

 

Definitely makes me think she can connect with things in shadesmare through visual communication more easily than the more direct methods jasnah would prefer though. Maybe less sketching specifically, but maybe lightweaving scenes so that a rock can see the change into a gemstone that would be treasured and less lonely etc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did originally hold off on thinking too much of it until it was confirmed that you can soulcast people.

 

But that's before I realized there's common references to vorinism calling people to soulcast themselves into something better. A bit poetic to be too serious. Except light eyes are soulcast into stone after dying. Soulcaster savants literally become what they create. And jasnah literally soulcast a dude into flames.

Soulcasters, even jasnah, have areas they'd are better or worse at. Jasnah doesn't do organic things near as well.

It's undoubtedly possible at this point that one could simply just be better at Soulcasting people rather than things. The opposite of Jasnah. Though the method of persuasion is likely the biggest obstacle for shallan.

 

 

Curious if she could invent a new type of jam made of fruit that only exists in her mind, and manifest it from a more mundane type.

Edited by RadiantFox
Typos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

T

44 minutes ago, RadiantFox said:

I've been thinking about Shallan and her weakness in soul casting.

In book 2 I believe she even began discussing sketches as living, and as buds of souls clipped free and all this dramatic stuff. Even Veil and Radiant came out of her drawing herself as she could be, and wanted to be.

But radiant and veil aren't simply illusions, nor does she really exhibit true DID symptoms until she read more into them (yes I know real life reasons for that one, but it still affects canon).

 

I believe because they are soulcast versions of herself who become more unstable when she's less sure of who she is and wants to be, and who cannot truly coexist with her (as identity seeks to be one in all three realms). Even her perception of them as symptoms of mental illness likely affected how they functioned according to how she/they saw her/themselves. 

 

 

There are theroies as well that because Shallan has bonded a Cryptic spren before and broken those oaths she may have her soulcasting linked to Testament and her Lightweaving is linked to Pattern. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if Shallan is actually worse than others. The problem is probably not that she's Shallan, but the fact that she's trying to change objects by begging them. This passage is from Jasnah's perspective, in chapter 64, Rhythm of War:

"Draining Stormlight from the gemstones at her waist, she gave it a single command. Change. No begging, as she'd tried when younger. Only firmness.
The bored air accepted, and formed into oil all around them."

I might have missed an obvious clue, but I'd guess that anyone trying Shallan's method would have the same results, because it's implied that Jasnah didn't succeed when she tried it herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find Soulcasting to be pretty fascinating in general, so I've taken some notes here and there. There is one Lightweaver who is mentioned to be even a little bit better at Soulcasting than the others, Beryl. Shallan calls out her proficiency in the text.

Quote

Shallan knelt and made a show of picking up a handful of grain and inspecting it. "You're not doing anything wrong at all. This is good work. Most of us have trouble making individual grains."

"Oh! It helps to have a seed," she said, pulling some from her pocket. "Literal seeds, in this case." She grinned, holding them up. "If you have something to show the obsidian's soul, you intrigue it enough to want to transform."

"That's not how Jasnah does it," Veil said.

RoW Chapter 26: A Little Espionage

Shallan goes on to think that the problem might not be with her, but with Jasnah's method. And I think there is something to this. In TWoK, Shallan has an argument with Jasnah about belief which I feel highlights their different approaches to things.

Quote

"Well, I'm not very well trained in that area myself. But I do think that you ignored, or at least minimized one vital part of the discussion." 

"Which is?" 

Shallan tapped at her breast. "Our hearts, Brightness. I believe because I feel something, a closeness to the Almighty, a peace that comes when I live my faith."

"The mind is capable of projecting expected emotional responses."

"But didn't you yourself argue that the way we act--the way we feel about right and wrong--was a defining attribute of our humanity? You used our innate morality to prove you point. So how can you discard my feelings?"

TWoK Chapter 29: Errorgance

Jasnah convinces the soul to change with commands, but Shallan has only ever had success when she inspires the soul of the subject to change. This I feel accounts for her Spiritual Transformation of the deserters and for the transformation of the Wind's Pleasure. Shallan appeals to the core belief of the ship, to protect and care for its crew, to make it desire to change. She appeals to the souls of the deserters and of Elhokar, showing them in turn what they could be, if they tried to change. That "intrigues them enough" to want to try. Her infamous failure with the stick is probably an example of Shallan failing to convince the stick why it should, in fact, want to be fire. A figurative seed, in this case. Her other 'successful' attempt, in TWoK, was with a crystal goblet that I'm pretty certain was simply bored of being a goblet; she barely had to say anything to persuade it.

When Formless Soulcasts the doorknob, she also notes that things barely care if you ask them to change in Shadesmar. In OB, Jasnah observes that it's much easier to Soulcast with the three realms so close to each other (or at least, that is the implication):

Quote

Soulcasting living things was difficult; it usually required care and concentration--along with proper knowledge and procedure. 

Today, the men puffed away to smoke at her barest thought. It was so easy that a part of her was horrified.

OB Chapter 120: The Spear That Would Not Break

So I would guess that Soulcasting may have something to do with that. Jasnah through the Cognitive and Shallan through the Spiritual? Just based on their characters, that feels more or less right.

As for why Shallan is bad at Soulcasting normally ... I could probably muse about that all day. Maybe it really is because she's using the wrong method for her mindset. However, I do agree that it probably reflects her own inner turmoil. It could be a little of all of these? When Shallan is briefly Formless, she had at least made a choice about who she wanted to be, even as Veil and Radiant fought her over it. I tend to think about it the same way I personally read Kaladin as ignoring Adhesion because he's afraid of emotionally connecting to people. Having made a definitive choice at the end of RoW as to who she wants to be (a Knight Radiant and not a Ghostblood, Shallan over Formless, etc.), I wonder if she will suddenly have more success with Soulcasting?

Edited by crème de la crèmling
Grammar.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Elegy said:

I'm not sure if Shallan is actually worse than others. The problem is probably not that she's Shallan, but the fact that she's trying to change objects by begging them. This passage is from Jasnah's perspective, in chapter 64, Rhythm of War:

"Draining Stormlight from the gemstones at her waist, she gave it a single command. Change. No begging, as she'd tried when younger. Only firmness.
The bored air accepted, and formed into oil all around them."

I might have missed an obvious clue, but I'd guess that anyone trying Shallan's method would have the same results, because it's implied that Jasnah didn't succeed when she tried it herself.

That's Shallan's old method, in RoW she's using Jasnah's method and sometimes end up transforming things into the wrong material

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...