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I only recently noticed I hadn't updated my favourite Story-theory yet with the new Dawnshard/RoW Knowledge, so here goes.

TL; DR: Kelsier will try to reforge and become Ambition.

Collecting enough of Ambitions Investiture will enable him to ascend to Shardhood.

 

So, RoW answered atleast some of my thoughts about what Kel would get up to.
It also fed into my theory, so it's time to dig that up again.

 

First, the arguments that still hold: (New Arguments at the bottom)

- He tasted Ascension with Preservation. And now that he knows that's a thing that is possible, it seems like a worthy goal to keep himself busy with.

- Hoid seems to be interested in keeping the Shards from gaining too much power and keeping them seperated. Kelsier hates him. Would be fun to have them square off in that kind of way, especially with Hoid as the MC of Mistborn Era 4

You might ask: But why specifically Ambition?

- At the end of Secret History, Vin asks Kelsier an important question about his motivation. We're lead to believe that Kelsier will look inside himself and realize that she was right and his vendetta against the Lord Ruler was more about himself than the Skaa or Scadrial. From RoW, we can gather that he probably accepted that and doubled down on it - see Thaidakar.
We saw that Preservations Intent and Kelsier's personality were too different. Of all the shards we know, Ambition would fit him really well. He's insanely ambitious, going so far as to think up a way to overthrow an - as far as he knew - immortal Emperor. He punched multiple gods. And he created a multiple-world-spanning secret Organisation. If that isn't ambitious, I don't know what is.
- Additionally, according to my Understanding, Ambition is one of the, if not the, least limiting Intents. With all we've read about Ruin corrupting Ati, Odium and Honor and Preservation etc limiting their Vessels, Ambition is... not really like that. I'm sure there some zany stuff there, but I doubt becoming Ambition would hinder Kelsiers Megalomania, if anything it would further increase it. And it wouldn't bind him to anything stupid like Oaths or whatever, which he definitely wouldn't want.

But there's more hints towards my theory.

- Foreshadowing (pun intended). When Kelsier encountered the Ire, they mentioned Threnody Shades. As Kelsier is a Cognitive Shadow, their Alerter Fabrial picked up on him. I believe that this might be more than fanservice for those of us who read Shadows for Silence. Threnody is the one planet we know where Investiture from Ambition "landed" in large chunks. It's already connected to Cognitive Shadows, and the names of the planets in the Threnodite system are all the names of Songs of Mourning - and Kelsier is dead ( also as in "The Bands of Mourning", which Kelsier used)

- Threnody and Sel are the only other two planets that Kelsier canonically knew as of the end of secret history. Putting himself in opposition of the Ire, it wouldn't be too far fetched that he would have investigated what it is that these very knowledgable people are trying to contain that they confused him with. Not a far stretch imho. It seems that on Roshar, the Ghostbloods already have plan and directive, so I assume Kelsier already has had some kind of plan by the time they set up on Roshar.

- Ambition was splintered, but unlike Dominion and Devotion. While we know that Odium stuffed those two in the Cognitive Realm to make sure they wouldn't be picked up again, as far as we know he didn't know how to do that yet when he finished off Ambition outside the Threnodite system. So while Ambition is probably spread out in dead chunks of Investiture, someone ambitious enough with a lot of time could try to collect those.

- Additionally, Edgli (Endowment) seemed to think that Ambitions last Vessel would've been trouble, and seems glad that she's gone. From different WoB's we know that Sazed's ascension has caused quite a stir, so Kelsier could definitely take up the troublemaking mantle of Uli Da very well.

 

 

Alright, time for the new arguments and thoughts:

Two things are majorly important:

- The Ghostbloods are looking for ways to transport Investiture. Ba-Ado-Mishram, Gems, Stormlight... Aside from trying to find a way for their Master to actually move beyond Scadrial, they are looking for ways to transport Investiture. Sure, Money and Power are good motivators, but I think there's a second reason for that: Moving Chunks of Ambition. What would this do for them? Well...

Douglas

What about a lerasium savant? Or would that require so much lerasium that the person attempting it would ascend to become a new Shardholder?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, this is what Ascension is.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012)

 

I imagine the Plan to go something like this:

Step 1: Find a way to store most of the big chunks of Ambition's Investiture. I assume it's not all in the form of Shades, so imagine Gems and whatever stuffed full of Investiture

- if necessary, Step 2: Convert it into a Form Thaidakar can use. If Raboniel and Navani can figure out Light physics, I'm sure people in Silverlight or other Scholars somewhere are able to do so too. I'd be surprised if the Ghostbloods didn't have some smart Cosmere Scientists on their Payroll. Convert all that Investiture into solid form: a metal. Uli Dum/Ambitium -

Step 3: Kelsier burns massive amounts of Ambitium or an Ambitium/Lerasium Alloy, preferrably physically close to Threnody, somewhere in the system. Once he has burnt enough of it, Kelsier ascends to Ambition. The Investiture that hasn't been collected hopefully realigns itself to its new Vessel, and Kel is a Shard now.

 

Aside from those reasons, just think of how absolutely fitting this would be for Kelsiers Story, both in-universe and Meta, for us readers.

Kelsier, the Survivor, survives the most deadly place on Scadrial, the pits of Hathsin, under the rule of an "immortal god-emperor", spiting said Emperor. He goes on to challenge that Emperor, and while dying in the Process, deifies himself as The Survivor, sparking both the Revolt that finally took down the Lord Ruler and a Religion around himself.
He Survives Death, and goes on to help out at the other very deadly part of Scadrial, the South, and also kinda becomes the god of the people there after helping them survive. Notice a pattern?

What better than to do this a third time?

The Survivor, a kinda-ghost kinda-god, focusses his attention on the deadliest planet in the known universe, Threnody. If any one people in the Cosmere is doing more surviving than the South Scadrians, it's definitely the people on Threnody. (Try to tell me Kelsier wouldn't like Silence Montane.) After the disaster of Ruin and Preservation and the prophecy, Scadrial needed a god like Harmony to rest and stabilize under. Threnodys woes aren't over, however. What they need is a fighter god, someone able to take on the Evil. Someone who embodies the Will to Survive that Threnodians need, and the Ambition to pull through with it, to take up a fight this hopeless. a ghost-god that's already fought one immortal evil fits into Threnody well, and it would fit so well into Kelsiers story to do his shtick a third time: Help people survive and become their god. Only this time, it would actually be true, and he'd ascend to Shardhood.

 

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It's like poetry, it rhymes. :)

I do think that Brandon had Ambition be splintered for a very important reason down the line, not just to give us a minor Shardworld for an interesting story premise. I mean, come on, it's an ENTIRE SHARD. He has something in mind for it, and yeah. Kelsier could fit very well with the Intent of Ambition.

The main 2 obstacles are, like you said, accumulating Ambition's investiture in a form that Kelsier can access (so, condensing it into Uli-Daium, or i guess since there's no Vessel, Ambitium, as you said), as well as making sure Kel is properly Connected to the Physical Realm again, as Ati pointed out while Kel was briefly Preservation.

I'm curious what sort of properties Kelsium would have, as the new god-metal of Ambition. I'd bet that Kel would want it to be useful in the Metallic Arts, seeing as how he's Scadrian and so are probably a lot of Ghostbloods, but... Hmm. What would be thematically fitting...

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Yeah, good question. I've wondered about Kelsium too. We have very little to go off of, sadly, and I'm unsure how much the Vessel Influences that. From what we know

Lerasium lets you rewrite your spiritweb somehow and somewhat.

Atium connects you to the spiritual realm temporarily

We don't know what Harmonium does, but it's explosive, which kind of fits the fact that Sazed has to balance those two opposing shards.

So it seems that Kelsium would have more to do with what Ambition represents. As we have seen no active magic being used that's Ambition-related, we have basically no idea.

My first thought would be something kind of like Duralumin, boosting or enhancing other things. It could also become some kind of necromantic death magic thing, though both are probably too "little" for a Godmetal.

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I like it. I would be surprised if it happened, but also satisfied. I really like this theory.

I'm also terrified of the consequences if this happened.

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I would be here for kelsier Ambition scheming against Taravangodium.

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Yeah, I think people started theorizing in this direction since learning about Ambition in the AU

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I'm just imagining Kelsier's reaction to Hoid's taunting him as the "Lord of Scars" at the end of RoW, admonishing him to worry about "his own planet" and threatening to "come over there and smack him around again"...

...combined with this being a goal for him now, to reassemble and to Ascend to Ambition...

...Hoid probably wanting to prevent this (wouldn't he? -- what does Hoid even think Kelsier is after with the Ghostbloods?)...

...and Kelsier's boast to Ati/Ruin in Secret History: “I could always. Force. People to choose. The card I wanted them to.”

Awwww yeah.

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I think all the survive language leans more toward a Command - like a dawnshard - especially because Persist/Survive seems like a corollary to Change that Rysn holds. In the end, Ambition and autonomy connect well with both Kelsier and this thematic command to survive. Though there's also the shard that Brandon has stated is just out to survive. I can't help but think Thaidakar is gonna get tangled in all this stuff.

Edited by Hearthebeard
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28 minutes ago, Hearthebeard said:

I think all the survive language leans more toward a Command - like a dawnshard - especially because Persist/Survive seems like a corollary to Change that Rysn holds. In the end, Ambition and autonomy connect well with both Kelsier and this thematic command to survive. Though there's also the shard that Brandon has stated is just out to survive. I can't help but think Thaidakar is gonna get tangled in all this stuff.

That is also a popular theory! Plus, in Secret History, Preservation mentions that he buried a weapon and some fans theorize that it's possible he might have been referring to a Dawnshard.

Quote

“I needed a sign,” Fuzz whispered, stopping near Kelsier. “Something he couldn’t change. A sign of the weapon I’d buried. The boiling point of water, I think. Maybe its freezing point? But what if the units change over the years? I needed something that would be remembered always. Something they’ll immediately recognize.” He leaned in. “Sixteen.”

 

Edited by Honorless
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7 minutes ago, Honorless said:

That is also a popular theory! Plus, in Secret History, Preservation mentions that he buried a weapon and some fans theorize that it's possible he might have been referring to a Dawnshard.

 

That all tracks to me. The main issue I would have is that if there was a dawnshard hidden on Scadrial or possessed by Kelsier it seems like Harmony would be very interested in that, and so far he seems to be focusing on some other things. I guess Lost Metal might open our eyes to some stuff.

 

Also, this stuff with Kelsier is not so different than Dalinar and Unite and we seem a little early in the Cosmere storyline to have three of the four dawnshards visible and in possession of viewpoint characters. Then again there's a reason Scadrial and Roshar are at the heart of the narrative. Also we don't really know what being/holding a dawnshard really means or does for a character. Also, if Kelsier is Survive/Persist you might think his interactions with Hoid might have hinted at that. Though maybe that's why Hoid could punch him.

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29 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Plus, in Secret History, Preservation mentions that he buried a weapon and some fans theorize that it's possible he might have been referring to a Dawnshard.

Wasn't that talking about the mists and the atium Mistings (the weapon to get rid of Ati's body)?

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2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Wasn't that talking about the mists and the atium Mistings (the weapon to get rid of Ati's body)?

He might've been, but then again that's why it would be a good hidden hint.

The theory about "Unite" as a Dawnshard also hinges on how it isn't wrong about either of the applications.

You, like Dalinar, could read it as "Unite the Highprinces", which would track, or as "Unite the Human Kingdoms", which equally makes sense. Or is it Unite the Radiants? Unite the Heralds? All of these make sense in Stormlight Archive, but they could make as much sense coming from a Dawnshard.

The same could be true for Persist. Was Preservation referring to (just) the Mistings? maybe to both, Could've been a Backup. And like with "Unite", "Survive the Pits of Hathsin", "Survive the Encounter with the Inquisitor", "Survive Death", all of these would make sense if they're not from a Dawnshard but from Preservation or Kelsier's mind, but also if they're from a Dawnshard.

Though personally I'd be intrigued how Preservation managed to sneak a Dawnshard onto Scadrial without Ruin knowing.

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1 minute ago, Benkinsky said:

He might've been, but then again that's why it would be a good hidden hint.

The theory about "Unite" as a Dawnshard also hinges on how it isn't wrong about either of the applications.

How would sixteen be related to the Dawnshard, though?

2 minutes ago, Benkinsky said:

All of these make sense in Stormlight Archive, but they could make as much sense coming from a Dawnshard.

Eh, I don't feel it does make much sense. Honor directly says that the humans don't have the Dawnshards, it'd be odd if all along it was in his child spren thing or something and he just didn't know. And I don't see any signs of anything weird that's not already pretty easily explained by other factors. But that's it's own thread probably.

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16 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

How would sixteen be related to the Dawnshard, though?

Eh, I don't feel it does make much sense. Honor directly says that the humans don't have the Dawnshards, it'd be odd if all along it was in his child spren thing or something and he just didn't know. And I don't see any signs of anything weird that's not already pretty easily explained by other factors. But that's it's own thread probably.

true, it does track more for the Allomancy thing. Though Atium Mistings are kind of number 17+, aren't they?

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1 minute ago, Benkinsky said:

true, it does track more for the Allomancy thing. Though Atium Mistings are kind of number 17+, aren't they?

That is why Brandon wants to change the whole 16 thing for a film adaptation, I think. The more you think about it, the less sense it makes.

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2 hours ago, ScadrianTank said:

That is why Brandon wants to change the whole 16 thing for a film adaptation, I think. The more you think about it, the less sense it makes.

does it not? I think it still tracks. First, you're introduced to "so there's 8 normal metals and then there's additional special ones", and later learn "ah, there's actually 16 and then there's additional special ones", and those are the God metals, which Atium was and Gold wasn't. Atium mistings are weird, but knowing Preservation specifically made that possible tracks. Now I'm wondering if there are like Raysium Mistings and stuff or if Harmony would have to create that too

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5 hours ago, Benkinsky said:

true, it does track more for the Allomancy thing. Though Atium Mistings are kind of number 17+, aren't they?

Iirc, it's that one type of Misting was swapped out for atium Mistings (he's gone back and forth on which, last we heard it was aluminum but there was an asterisk that the question was "making assumptions", so who knows what's up with the specifics), so my guess is that they were supposed to go "hey there's sixteen metals, but only 15 Misting types being Snapped, what's up with these other people?" and eventually work it out (maybe originally they knew atium was special and this knowledge got lost?), but it's... not really clear and that's just my best guess at what he intended.

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8 hours ago, Benkinsky said:

does it not? I think it still tracks. First, you're introduced to "so there's 8 normal metals and then there's additional special ones", and later learn "ah, there's actually 16 and then there's additional special ones", and those are the God metals, which Atium was and Gold wasn't. Atium mistings are weird, but knowing Preservation specifically made that possible tracks. Now I'm wondering if there are like Raysium Mistings and stuff or if Harmony would have to create that too

  1. This clue was supposed to help people who had no idea that there are 16 metals. If Yomen didn't spill the beans, there was no way for the wast majority of Scadrial to know that at the time.
  2. 16 doesn't fit logically if it's meant to point people to the metal that ISN'T one of the 16.
  3. The fact that atium mistings are a thing. God metals are supposed to be usable by everyone. In fact, that is another change Brandon wants to make for a film adaptation.
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8 hours ago, ScadrianTank said:

The fact that atium mistings are a thing. God metals are supposed to be usable by everyone. In fact, that is another change Brandon wants to make for a film adaptation.

Yeah this is a rather interesting bit. Going off WoBs, it seems like atium is not normal for a godmetal in that it can't just be burned by any Allomancer/any person, so I'm definitely curious what's up with it.

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