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NerdInWhite

Small/big metalmind usage?

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Can a feruchemist use the trace amounts of metals in their body as metalminds? How small can a metalmind be, and could it be a single atom? Could you put more tiny metals in your bloodstream and have a collective small backup metalmind all the time? Is there a limit on how big they could be? If not then there could be an infrastructure of metal cables like the power grid that uses unsealed metalminds so anyone can access the stored power. I'm imagining the Set creating a bank of powers fueled by captive (or hired) feruchemists then selling wires as hookups to it. They could possibly get whole cities or at least law enforcement and certain labor sectors dependent on the extra power (strength/mental speed along with everything else), then they would be in control of those people. Would love to hear anyone's thoughts and would appreciate being pointed in the direction of people already talking about this. 

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3 minutes ago, NerdInWhite said:

Can a feruchemist use the trace amounts of metals in their body as metalminds? How small can a metalmind be, and could it be a single atom? Could you put more tiny metals in your bloodstream and have a collective small backup metalmind all the time? Is there a limit on how big they could be? If not then there could be an infrastructure of metal cables like the power grid that uses unsealed metalminds so anyone can access the stored power. I'm imagining the Set creating a bank of powers fueled by captive (or hired) feruchemists then selling wires as hookups to it. They could possibly get whole cities or at least law enforcement and certain labor sectors dependent on the extra power (strength/mental speed along with everything else), then they would be in control of those people. Would love to hear anyone's thoughts and would appreciate being pointed in the direction of people already talking about this. 

I think this can be helpfull:

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Rithmatist Houston signing (May 20, 2013)
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ntdfbladez (paraphrased)

If a metalmind is melted down and changes shape, does it still retain its power?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, only by mixing it with other metals would the power be completely lost. Also if any pieces of the metalmind are lost, then some of the power will be lost (as it would be in the missing pieces).

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General Reddit 2016 (Nov. 11, 2016)
#3 Nov. 11, 2016 Share Copy
 
 

Rogaen

What would happen if a Feruchemist fills, for example, a tin metalmind then mixes it to make a pewter metalmind? Does the stored attribute change? Is the Investiture gone when you melt the metal? What if he just makes it into a tin metalmind again?

Brandon Sanderson

If you make it impure, you'll keep the investiture, but won't be able to get it out. If you make it back into the same thing, you'll be fine, and can access it normally. If you try to fill it, after changing the composition to make another viable metal, it will act a little like a computer hard drive with corrupted sectors. Some of it will work for the new investiture, but you won't be able to fill it nearly as full. (Depending on how full it was before you melted down.)

This holds for basic uses of the metallurgic arts. Once you start playing with some of the more advanced parts of the magic, you can achieve different results, which are currently RAFO.

eSPiaLx

Similarly, if you were to soulcast a metal would it have similar effects of corrupting the investiture and making it inaccessible? Like if you turned a steel metalmind into pewter.

Brandon Sanderson

I've stayed away from soulcasting and forging in these types of discussions, as I feel my answers will dig too deeply and prompt more questions that, eventually, will lead to lots of RAFO type questions. I don't really want to go there--but I will say this. Changing invested objects with other magics is hard, and often requires such a force of investiture yourself, that it becomes very power-inefficient. Just like we can technically turn lead into gold right now--by spending way more money than the gold is worth.

BipedSnowman

So you could, for example, use electrolysis to dissolve a metalmind in water, then reverse the reaction later to get the investiture?

OR, better question, if you store investiture in one allotrope of iron, can your retrieve it off you change to a different allotrope?

Brandon Sanderson

I see no reason why these wouldn't work.

dce42

So would forging with the blood of a radiant(kaladin, dalinar,etc) work on a shard blade from a fallen radiant to say change who they had bonded, or how the bond was broken (to say death instead of giving up on the oath)?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

This has to be proper metal to be metalmind. Anything other doesnt matter. So probably yes, Feruchemist can store Atribute in metal traces in body - but probably this would be very small amount. Also in our body metals often are in compounds, what make them unaccesable for Allomantic/Feruchemical use. But I dont see why having tiny metal fullerens going through veins would not work. Besides, of course, not very big charge.

Also, as far we know, there is no limit how big metalminds could be. They are not very big due to convinience, not because it is impossible to be bigger.

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1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

I think this can be helpfull:

This has to be proper metal to be metalmind. Anything other doesnt matter. So probably yes, Feruchemist can store Atribute in metal traces in body - but probably this would be very small amount. Also in our body metals often are in compounds, what make them unaccesable for Allomantic/Feruchemical use. But I dont see why having tiny metal fullerens going through veins would not work. Besides, of course, not very big charge.

Also, as far we know, there is no limit how big metalminds could be. They are not very big due to convinience, not because it is impossible to be bigger.

Thanks that is super helpful. So the Set could melt metal and transport it through pipes and still get investiture out of it, but that might be a waste of time. I wonder if future spaceships will be purposefully invested to resist lashings.

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19 hours ago, NerdInWhite said:

Thanks that is super helpful. So the Set could melt metal and transport it through pipes and still get investiture out of it, but that might be a waste of time. I wonder if future spaceships will be purposefully invested to resist lashings.

It's definitely one way to do it, and a great way to protect against all kinds of foreign Investiture. 

And the Scadrians can do something almost nobody else in the Cosmere can do, which is draw nearly unlimited Investiture directly from the Spiritual Realm, so they dont need to be at all miserly about it's use.  Stormlight, Breathes, or even Dor that have already been Imported (in specific quantities) from the the spiritual realm.  The only thing that comes close so far is the Bondsmith ability to combine the realms.  

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This conversation makes me think of how useful this could be potentially. We have a WoB that the scale of how much can be in a metalmind by size isn't as linear as one would think, more like levels. And because of the Bands we know a LOT of a trait can be stored in a small amount of metal though we do not yet know how. Potentially skill or maybe some tech we haven't seen. It might be possible to store a good emergency supply of a trait that you know can't be taken from you.

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On 7/30/2021 at 1:53 AM, Quantus said:

It's definitely one way to do it, and a great way to protect against all kinds of foreign Investiture. 

And the Scadrians can do something almost nobody else in the Cosmere can do, which is draw nearly unlimited Investiture directly from the Spiritual Realm, so they dont need to be at all miserly about it's use.  Stormlight, Breathes, or even Dor that have already been Imported (in specific quantities) from the the spiritual realm.  The only thing that comes close so far is the Bondsmith ability to combine the realms.  

i wonder if there's an Aon that hasn't been discovered, that means "Investiture". That could be dangerous haha

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27 minutes ago, Njvodin said:

i wonder if there's an Aon that hasn't been discovered, that means "Investiture". That could be dangerous haha

Technicaly, Aon Rao is for this purpose.

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7 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Technicaly, Aon Rao is for this purpose.

Good call, that's probably the base Aon.  The rest of the innovation is likely to be discovering new uses for other aon as Modifiers.  

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