Vay

Is it confirmed that Lightweavers progress in five steps like all other orders? [Discuss]

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Basically what the title says. RoW spoilers.

Unless I'm missing something, Shallan's 3rd Ideal was acknowledging that she killed her father - then she used Pattern as a Blade in WoR. Her 4th comes at the end of WoR, the death of her mother, and Radiant (who seems Shallan's way of bypassing the 4th Truth) has Plate in the battle of Thaylen Field. Then the truth about Testament would be her 5th.

But there are still things for her to overcome. Even if Radiant is a mask to hide from the 4th Truth (and only merging her back would give Shallan full access to the Plate), there is the question of her family's relation with the Ghostbloods and how she bonded Testament in the first place. It seems big enough to be a Truth too. It's been hinted at that Shallan believes she can find out the truth herself, without Mraize revealing it, if only she can face her past.

So, do you think it's possible that Lightweavers say as many Truths as it takes? Is there maybe some WoB on it? 

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Since Shallan is bounded to two different Sprens so I'm not surprised she has to say more truths than normal

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10 hours ago, Vay said:

Unless I'm missing something, Shallan's 3rd Ideal was acknowledging that she killed her father - then she used Pattern as a Blade in WoR. Her 4th comes at the end of WoR, the death of her mother, and Radiant (who seems Shallan's way of bypassing the 4th Truth) has Plate in the battle of Thaylen Field.

I think we can safely assume she reached at least 3 Truths with Testament, given that she used Testament as a Blade to do The Deed.  Yes, that Bond was damaged, but not "broken"; I, and many others, think it likely that the Blade she summons during WoR is in fact Testament.

Later, with Pattern, more Truths were spoken.

It's especially challenging to draw general conclusions about Radiants from Shallan, as she's such an unreliable narrator.

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4 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

I think we can safely assume she reached at least 3 Truths with Testament, given that she used Testament as a Blade to do The Deed.  Yes, that Bond was damaged, but not "broken"; I, and many others, think it likely that the Blade she summons during WoR is in fact Testament.

Later, with Pattern, more Truths were spoken.

It's especially challenging to draw general conclusions about Radiants from Shallan, as she's such an unreliable narrator.

The one she uses on the Oathgate was Pattern though, as dead Blades aren't supposed to work? The Truth came later. I would have to get my poor old copy of WoR to confirm but I also think she changed the Blade's size in the chasms, while cutting out the shelter. 

I got a new idea about that end-of-RoW Truth, not sure if it's been brought up or maybe obvious to some, but could that Truth have been to Testament, not Pattern? It was mentioned Testament looked better afterwards, but at the time I wasn't sure why. 

I certainly agree about drawing conclusions about Lightweavers from Shallan, not only is she unreliable but there's also the double bond situation now messing up things.

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On what are you basing "dead Blades aren't supposed to work"?  Why assume Testament is "dead"?  None of the characters understand everything about how Nahel bonds work, and they often "know" things that are wrong, so we as readers also can't yet know what is and is not possible.  Many manifestations of Invested magic are limited by the Intent, Identity, or misconceptions of the user; the only reason they can't do something is because they "know" they can't do it.  "Ten heartbeats" comes to mind.

I strongly encourage you to read the terrifically well-researched discussion of these questions which starts here:

 

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41 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

I think we can safely assume she reached at least 3 Truths with Testament, given that she used Testament as a Blade to do The Deed.

That's two truths, 3 is when you get the plate :)

5 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

Why assume Testament is "dead"? 

Because she's a deadeye

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2 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Because she's a deadeye

My point is that NONE of us, not in-world characters OR readers, really know what that even means.  Remember how many characters say "deadeyes can't talk"?  Then - what do you know? - MAYA TALKS.  As a "deadeye" still bonded to her original Radiant, Testament is likely able to do things "normal" deadeye Shardblades can't, like change shapes or open Oathgates.  Does Shallan's Testamentblade have a glowing gemstone affixed to the pommel?

We're better off if we stop assuming (like the characters often do) that because we've seen how some of the rules work, we know ALL the rules.

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Just now, AquaRegia said:

My point is that NONE of us, not in-world characters OR readers, really know what that even means.  Remember how many characters say "deadeyes can't talk"?  Then - what do you know? - MAYA TALKS.  As a "deadeye" still bonded to her original Radiant, Testament is likely able to do things "normal" deadeye Shardblades can't, like change shapes or open Oathgates.

My point is that she's still dead, doesn't matter whether or not we know what that mean

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Does Shallan's Testamentblade have a glowing gemstone affixed to the pommel?

Most likely not, people have to add them the the swords

Quote

We're better off if we stop assuming (like the characters often do) that because we've seen how some of the rules work, we know ALL the rules.

Definitely

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On 7/27/2021 at 1:40 AM, Vay said:

Her 4th comes at the end of WoR, the death of her mother, and Radiant (who seems Shallan's way of bypassing the 4th Truth) has Plate in the battle of Thaylen Field.

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Preservation1

Did Shallan manifest her Shardplate in the final battle of Book Three?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. Shallan has to be big RAFO. You'll understand why when you read this book [Rhythm of War]. Shallan is an untrustworthy narrator.

I wouldn’t be so sure that that was shardplate. And Radiant is less about bypassing a truth as she is about not having to deal with the way people treat her, as a radiant.

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I've always struggled with "how are cryptic deadeyes made?" because it seems like cryptics seem to savor lies and lightweaver truths seem difficult to contradict.

Imo, oaths and contradictions seem to matter less to cryptics and the abilities are instead linked to the lightweaver's current relationship with their spren so unlike windrunner tiers, cryptics may provide access to any of their abilities at any time.

 

edit: *and contradictions

Edited by Waffles
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56 minutes ago, Waffles said:

I've always struggled with "how are cryptic deadeyes made?" because it seems like cryptics seem to savor lies and lightweaver truths seem difficult to contradict.

The imortal words

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13 hours ago, Frustration said:

The imortal words

Also, stopping to accept one of the truth you said

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14 hours ago, Frustration said:

The imortal words

Ok my dyslexic brain read that as "the immoral words" at first and I was like "well okay then" :P

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4 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

"the immoral words"

If that was a real thing, I'd have all the superpowers by now

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Just now, earthexile said:

If that was a real thing, I'd have all the superpowers by now

Maybe it's a Fused thing. :P

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