+Oltux72 Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 OK, this may be an extremly odd suggestion. Are we sure Melishi was human? Is it possible that by capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram he broke his own mind? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 26 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: OK, this may be an extremly odd suggestion. Are we sure Melishi was human? Is it possible that by capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram he broke his own mind? Melishi was a bondsmith, so yes, probably human. Are you trying to suggest they could've been parshendi? Because that wouldn't make any sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) Venli is first Parshendi Radiant EVER. So if there was Radiant (not just Bondsmith, ANY Radiant) earlier, had to be human. Edited July 26, 2021 by Bzhydack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted July 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 11 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said: Melishi was a bondsmith, so yes, probably human. Are you trying to suggest they could've been parshendi? Because that wouldn't make any sense. Melishi seemed to know a lot about how Singers bond. How much closer to Parshendi were Horneaters and Herdazians at that time? It's a rather long time in the past. 9 minutes ago, Bzhydack said: Venli is first Parshendi Radiant EVER. So if there was Radiant (not just Bondsmith, ANY Radiant) earlier, had to be human. Do we have any idea what happened to Aimians? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Oltux72 said: Do we have any idea what happened to Aimians? No, but Aimia was good and running some Time after Recreance, untill Dai-Gonarthis somehow destroyed it. And we saw Aimian, and he doesnt seems to be affected by Recreance. For sure not like Parshendi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 3 hours ago, Bzhydack said: Venli is first Parshendi Radiant EVER. So if there was Radiant (not just Bondsmith, ANY Radiant) earlier, had to be human. How do you know this? Do you mean first LISTENER Radiant, or first SINGER Radiant? ("Parshendi" is a term used by modern Alethi to describe only the Listeners, distinct from the Singer species) I ask because there has been speculation that some of the Fused were bonded to Radiant spren in the past, based on the exclamation by Leshwi that "they've come back to us!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 22 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: How do you know this? Do you mean first LISTENER Radiant, or first SINGER Radiant? ("Parshendi" is a term used by modern Alethi to describe only the Listeners, distinct from the Singer species) I ask because there has been speculation that some of the Fused were bonded to Radiant spren in the past, based on the exclamation by Leshwi that "they've come back to us!" Quote Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016) #383 Share Copy Play/Pause Questioner What would happen if a Parshendi were to attract a spren and bring it into the Highstorm? Like, an Honorspren of some sort? Brandon Sanderson Sapient spren have a choice of whether they get bonded or not, unless you entrap them some way. But simply attracting them...simply going into the Highstorm with one wouldn't work, what you said is 'attracted a spren', so, to answer that actually... The thing is, honorspren, all the spren of Honor and Cultivation, not honorspren capital, Honorspren or whatever... The spren that create the orders of the Knights Radiant have not, in the past, been attracted to Parshendi because of certain events in the past. Questioner *inaudible* Brandon Sanderson You'll have to Read and Find Out. Quote Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014) #288 Share Copy Play/Pause Questioner Is it possible - not will there be, but is it possible - for a Parshendi to become a Knight Radiant? Brandon Sanderson In the past, they would've said [no]. How about this, in-world everybody would tell you no. It's never happened. Quote Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014) #161 Share Copy Play/Pause Questioner Is Eshonai going to be a Radiant? You mentioned in the beginning that there's going to be ten books, ten Radiants - and Eshonai's book is one of them... Brandon Sanderson So. In the past, parshmen were - Parshendi were not allowed to become Knights Radiant. However, what I said, might imply that that could change. Quote Words of Radiance Houston signing (March 11, 2014) #24 Share Copy Questioner (paraphrased) How about the other way around? Can a Parshendi bond a Knights Radiant spren? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Historically, the Parshendi were not made Knights Radiant, or the parshmen weren't. Questioner (paraphrased) Can they become squires maybe? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Historically they did not, but it's not impossible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 Fair enough, but... 1) Those WOBs are all from 5-7 years ago, pre-Oathbringer. We knew much less, and Brandon may have been unwilling to answer more fully BECAUSE we knew so much less. 2) "in-world everybody would tell you no. It's never happened." I think it's telling that he chose to make that distinction. What in-world characters "know" to be true turns out to be wrong all the time. I won't be surprised if we find that what happened in the past between Singers and spren is MUCH more nuanced than a black-and-white "bond or nothing". We know that both sides felt some kind of "betrayal", which implies the breaking of a close and trusting relationship. Can we at least agree it's possible that relationship might involve Invested abilities, but not meet the threshold of "Radiance"? Also, wasn't Eshonai a Radiant (albeit briefly) before Venli? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: I won't be surprised if we find that what happened in the past between Singers and spren is MUCH more nuanced than a black-and-white "bond or nothing". We know that both sides felt some kind of "betrayal", which implies the breaking of a close and trusting relationship. Can we at least agree it's possible that relationship might involve Invested abilities, but not meet the threshold of "Radiance"? Not even enough for Surgebinding 12 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: Also, wasn't Eshonai a Radiant (albeit briefly) before Venli? yes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 9 minutes ago, Frustration said: Not even enough for Surgebinding yes 1 hour ago, AquaRegia said: How do you know this? Do you mean first LISTENER Radiant, or first SINGER Radiant? ("Parshendi" is a term used by modern Alethi to describe only the Listeners, distinct from the Singer species) I ask because there has been speculation that some of the Fused were bonded to Radiant spren in the past, based on the exclamation by Leshwi that "they've come back to us!" I think it would have come up when the Sibling was considering bonding Rlain. The Sibling states they hated Melishi (RoW Ch. 42), and humans in general, if Melishi was a Parsh, as they were called in Melishi's era, the Sibling might have mentioned it. Instead the Sibling reacts to the suggestion like "hmm a non-human, maybe." The Sibling also asks for Rlain to be sent to them to help them. (RoW Ch. 100). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted July 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 It still seems to me that it is unlikely that we have seen all the mixing that has occured. So I still wonder what the capture of B-A-M did to the more parshlike members of those mixed ethnicities. And unless they were actively selected against, which admittedly is perfectly possible, some of them must have found their way to membership of the Knights Radiant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 12 hours ago, AquaRegia said: I won't be surprised if we find that what happened in the past between Singers and spren is MUCH more nuanced than a black-and-white "bond or nothing". We know that both sides felt some kind of "betrayal", which implies the breaking of a close and trusting relationship. Can we at least agree it's possible that relationship might involve Invested abilities, but not meet the threshold of "Radiance"? Also, wasn't Eshonai a Radiant (albeit briefly) before Venli? We know also Singers before Humans come to Roshar were "forbidden to touch" at least some Surges. And also Surges they have, they use differently than later Radiants or Fused - we saw example of Stoneshapinig with Songs and Rythms, was saw also Progression with the same technique. So we can assume Singers could know how to use other Surges with Songs (and atracted by them Spren) but were forbidden to use them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 On 7/26/2021 at 4:29 AM, Oltux72 said: Melishi seemed to know a lot about how Singers bond. How much closer to Parshendi were Horneaters and Herdazians at that time? It's a rather long time in the past. I would like to remind everyone that the spren have been holding a grudge against the parshendi for a really long time, including the Stormfather. Rlain mentions this in RoW. There is no way Melishi was a singer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcatur Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 It is mentioned I think in Oathbringer by one of the Fused that they were surprised how humans could not only bond spren, but create a STRONGER bond (with stronger powers). So some sort of bond was possible, just not a Radiant oath-based bond (and well, we see the flashback in RoW to singers shaping stone before Odium arrived to Roshar. Regarding Melishi, his name does seem to be strange. Phonetically it is different than nearly all other human names. It may be nothing (just like Moash he happened to have a singer name) but it does make me wonder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truthwatcher94 Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) Can I just also add something for the spren issues above, we know that the Nahel bond is a symbiotic relationship for the Knight and the spren, right? The humans get Surgebinding, Shardblade/plate while the spren get what? Sapience in the Physical Realm is it not? God, I hope I’m right. Feel free to correct me. Kindly, though. Anyway, because humans with all their eccentricities and unpredictability they provide a stronger bond for the spren. IIRC, this was said by Syl. While I don’t have anything against the Listeners, which will probably be the base for our new Willshapers, I don’t think Timbre, Venli’s spren, will ever talk like human’s do. They can communicate, sure, with their rhythms and the mutual connection between both parties. But never like Kal and Syl, or Shallan and Pattern or any human-spren partnership. I’m not saying which is better because both mediums of communication work just as well as the other but I’m saying the spren chose which is better for them or at least, whichever they thought can give them the stronger bond. And the WoB mentioned above with Brandon explaining some events from the past why the spren chose the humans over them strongly disagrees that any Singer-Radiants were created. To answer OP, since maybe we have established that Singers were never a candidate for a Bondsmith or any Radiant bond, the Sibling’s more-than-a-little reluctance to bonding humans again, and all the testimonies of the spren that humans’ betrayal caused the genocide of 8 sapient spren races, we can probably agree Melishi was human. And the strongest proof would be Honor and Cultivation chose the humans as their “people” or was it just Honor? Anyway, by doing this, it would be logical to say that the spren were endorsed to the species that their Father and Mother chose, right? Was it also Honor who controlled or limited Surgebinding to avoid abuse and eventually destroying Roshar? Can he also maybe, I don’t know, control where or who gets these privileges? That’s maybe why humans get exclusive seats to Radiancy. With him gone now, the spren can choose whomever they like. By the way, aren’t Aimians already heavily Invested because of their strange abilities and all? If they are, then maybe they are bad candidates for the Nahel bond. I know Heralds are also Invested of some sort but they are special cases. And besides, Aimians are weird, I can’t think the spren would want any more questions to solve when the humans got their hands full. Edited October 1, 2021 by Truthwatcher94 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoey Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 7/26/2021 at 6:09 AM, Bzhydack said: Venli is first Parshendi Radiant EVER. So if there was Radiant (not just Bondsmith, ANY Radiant) earlier, had to be human. Second, Eshonai was the first. She just didn't get nearly as far as Venli. But did have a bond iirc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted October 3, 2021 Report Share Posted October 3, 2021 On 26/07/2021 at 1:09 PM, Bzhydack said: Venli is first Parshendi Radiant EVER. So if there was Radiant (not just Bondsmith, ANY Radiant) earlier, had to be human. Do we have confirmation there never was an Amian or an unkown type of non-human who became Radiant? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted October 3, 2021 Report Share Posted October 3, 2021 5 hours ago, mathiau said: Do we have confirmation there never was an Amian or an unkown type of non-human who became Radiant? It's strongly implied that the sleepless had surgebinding at one point, but not neccesarily Radiance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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