Mid-range game 52: Guard Duty

[Kasimir]

26 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

When you say "voting for me again and again" this is basically evidence that you genuinely believe my vote could succeed.

Are your own reactions irrelevant?

I have a shardblade of my own, but I don't really feel like doing anything for myself, so I am going to leave everything up to any other people out there who might have shardblades, and throw away my vote.

[OOC: Nope. This is me flat-out stating what would be a red flag to me. A red flag would be if you choose to continue doing this over and over again. You have stated before in the first cycle and this one that you aim to continue to try to get me lynched as you feel my extra life is counterproductive to the Village, and you're doing this on the off-chance I'm Evil. I have pointed out that a Village Shardblade could easily take me out. To me, the only logical way to read this is as a declaration of intent to keep on voting for me if and until you succeed. If and when your vote succeeds, then that's irrelevant to me. The only scenario I'm concerned about is where you don't succeed, because other players are actually trying to find Elims and then you are allowed to skate by in the background. To me, that's a good way of avoiding having to actually sus players and back that suspicion with votes.

Do you have no suspicions, [Fabien.] Drake? Do you have no interest in finding Elims? Because Elims already know what the answer is, and low vote diversity and declared intention to only focus on me? Sure sounds like a red flag to me.]

26 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

You are saying the train on you is a difficult train but also acting like it has every chance of succeeding in practice. I'm pleased to say that's a green flag in my eyes, and in any case you can have it both ways.

[OOC: Am I? Now you're miscontruing my argument. Even if it is a one person train, it is an excuse, is it not? "Oh, I'm going to keep voting Kas for strategic reasons." Conveniently allowing you to stay off any main trains. I'm not even acting as if it has every chance of succeeding in practice - whether it can succeed or not is irrelevant to my argument. My argument only relies that you do exactly what you have declared: that you will keep on voting for me for as long as it takes for me to get lynched once because my role benefits the Elims more than it does the Village. That choice of yours leads to a strategy that allows an Elim an easy place to hide. That's suspicious.]

26 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

To put it indirectly, I care a lot about what TUO has done in other games, they should be judged by that and not by what they are doing in this game. I think the train on TUO probably wasn't sort of shoddy.

[OOC: Then I'm just going to disagree. If you think that's a shoddy vote, that's your problem. I think a player's recent track record of activity is pretty damned important if you're interested in not having another low activity game.

26 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

This is also very much a different situation to when I was sussing Ashbringer that one time in LG77. The reasoning that was given to vote for TUO is reasoning that would not have worked for anyone else, and it was one of many reasons, which makes me confident that there isn't a pretense or any hidden reasons behind the votes.

Bulldrek. LG78 and QF54 look better for Steel, but I also don't want to immediately grinch someone who is GMing another game but will presumably soon be freed up. I also mentioned I was fine with an Ashbringer lynch and did go to Ashbringer at some point so I was not clearly set on TUO.]

Edited to add: Know what a vote that focuses on me - your declared intention - and doesn't go on anyone else is? It's a low information vote that doesn't help find Elims and doesn't help anyone read you. That's suspicious, and I'm not going to keep pulling off at this point. I'll put my vote where my mouth is and go for you.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Kasimir

[DrakeMarshall]

Boo, I don't appreciate that you would put your vote where your mouth is >:P

But it sounds like you think that I'm actualy suspicious of you. I'm not. I'm trying to throw my vote away, like I said.

Edited August 3, 2021 by DrakeMarshall

[Archer]

Travis Rifleman stood up to stretch his legs. As he strode towards the bar to get another drink, he passed the two players who had left the table. He mouthed the word sorry at them. [Apologies, Elandera. I had you pegged as a low-impact opportunist elim.]

Returning to his chair, his face was a mask of stoicism. “Well that weren’t very nice of y’all,” he drawled.

“I don’t wanna spend the night in jail, so I ain’t gonna accuse our distinguished Captain here. I reckon he didn’t want to let you crooks get away with letting someone take the fall for your cheatin’. And I agree wit it.” [I was going to say that the lack of opposition to TUO’s death looked like elim apathy. The CW was all village, so I’m not sure how e!TUO planned to survive without his elim teammates casting some extremely obvious last-minute votes. My one holdup though is that his recent post implies he had a vote-manip card held in reserve and intended to use it. I was wondering why he didn’t cast a self preservation vote. I assumed it was because he was inactive during the time he became an exe candidate, but perhaps the elim doc was lurking, knowing they could have TUO self-pres if needed but hoping it wouldn’t be necessary.]

Speaking of the Captain, Travis wondered why people had even bothered to accuse him. It would have been a bruising fight to wage. [I made a post explaining why I think that Kas is good that Fab wasn’t on to respond to; I’ll be interested in seeing if they regret their vote or stand by it. It feels like a safe vote to camp because Kas’ flip is delayed, so you can’t be sussed for it until two cycles have gone by. As for Drake, you get an upvote for that wonderfully backwards post, but the same criticisms apply. I’m choosing to see the liar playstyle as NAI, unless you’re using it to justify voting for the person you least suspect. That looks like an elim gimmick. Ties are only valid threats when they involve people who can’t tank the kill. And if you suspected Elandera, why didn’t you add your vote?]

Travis began shuffling his cards as he tuned into the conversation. “You’re daft, old timer. I ain’t connected to nobody. That sleepyhead [Ashbringer] wasn’t getting killed anyway. It’s darn hard to accuse someone whose only said one thing. I find it suspicious, but I had to put that on hold to get some use outta the conversation.”

On that note, he offered a discussion starter he was curious about. “How’d y’all feel about your card playing last round? Any surprises? Anyone have their hands stayed?”

 

[Also, on mobile, only two of the thread tags showed up for me. So I thought Lotus had written ‘haha’ ‘dead’. ]

Edited August 4, 2021 by Archer
Typo

[DrakeMarshall]

Yeah, I am voting for the person I least suspect. I want my faction to lose 

People never seem to think that thugs are just players that take two cycles to kill, and that players will inevitably follow up one kill with another right after. And that is actually frequently true. I have seen it be true in a lot of games tbh. So the arguments that the captain’s alignment is confirmed based on that seem like a safe bet, to me.

And I feel that Kasimir in particular has been acting trustworthy. But I defnitely don’t plan on thinking about this any more.

For reference, I would also be opposed to voting up either Araris or Striker right now, and I have tons of good reasons to feel this way.

Edited August 4, 2021 by DrakeMarshall

[Araris Valerian]

I think we would want to vote out TUO before Kas, based on how things played out last cycle, because there is a decent link between the two, but we only need one turn to get a flip from TUO. I'm going to switch my vote from Ash to Fabien. This game is potentially short enough that we can't really afford to give new players a pass past the first turn. I'm still willing to vote on Ash, but I'd like a little more pressure than what we have for the amount of time that has passed this cycle.

I'm still currently soft v/v on Kas/Drake (actually the read on Drake is a bit stronger now), so I'm not going to vote on either of those this turn as things stand. 

[Archer]

5 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Yeah, I am voting for the person I least suspect. I want my faction to lose 

People never seem to think that thugs are just players that take two cycles to kill, and that players will inevitably follow up one kill with another right after. And that is actually frequently true. I have seen it be true in a lot of games tbh. So the arguments that the captain’s alignment is confirmed based on that seem like a safe bet, to me.

And I feel that Kasimir in particular has been acting trustworthy. But I defnitely don’t plan on thinking about this any more.

For reference, I would also be opposed to voting up either Araris or Striker right now, and I have tons of good reasons to feel this way.

[Well that's reassuring anyway.]

"Yeehaw, that Captain fancying himself a kingmaker at the end and telling us so did seem like-a way to help any fellow cheaters dodge trouble. But it's a really small town, so it seems unlikely." [I draw the line at a solo exe of Kas. I think that sets us up for a 3v;3e cycle instead of a 4v;3e one. But tying him with a kill could be interesting, to get the weakened Thug and a flip in the same round. Actually it adds a round, but it still feels counter-intuitive. I haven't seen much to suggest we'll suddenly find a way to use our cards more effectively than we can in the position we are now. I do feel like they're being underused though, simply because I haven't seen any real discussion of them.

Easy group discussion question: when should shardblades, RBs, and kill protects be used?] 

7 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

. I'm going to switch my vote from Ash to Fabien. 

"And here you were saying me was the one who was distancing with that feller. Yeehaw, that's hypothesis! Hypothetical! Hippos!"

[I have thoughts on this I will save for after I see Fab's response.

But assuming at least one elim voted, Araris, Striker, Drake and Fab are on my radar. Araris keeps being the second vote on people, which is classic evil behaviour. Make your own wagons Araris]

[Araris Valerian]

50 minutes ago, Archer said:

But assuming at least one elim voted, Araris, Striker, Drake and Fab are on my radar. Araris keeps being the second vote on people, which is classic evil behaviour. Make your own wagons Araris

I'm pretty sure you mean it's classic Araris behavior. Although the two are basically indistinguishable at this point. Village!me has been stuffed in a closet for so long that possibly elim!me has taken over.

Edit: 8 players voted out of 11, but TUO voted earlier and retracted. So the assumption that at least one elim voted is meaningless. Just saying.

50 minutes ago, Archer said:

"And here you were saying me was the one who was distancing with that feller. Yeehaw, that's hypothesis! Hypothetical! Hippos!"

"Differnce 'tween you an me is I still want ter whack the fella. I'm just not poking 'im in the ribs currently, ya see?"

Edited August 4, 2021 by Araris Valerian

[The Unknown Ajah]

6 hours ago, Archer said:

was going to say that the lack of opposition to TUO’s death looked like elim apathy. The CW was all village, so I’m not sure how e!TUO planned to survive without his elim teammates casting some extremely obvious last-minute votes. My one holdup though is that his recent post implies he had a vote-manip card held in reserve and intended to use it. I was wondering why he didn’t cast a self preservation vote. I assumed it was because he was inactive during the time he became an exe candidate, but perhaps the elim doc was lurking, knowing they could have TUO self-pres if needed but hoping it wouldn’t be necessary

I would have both self pressed and vote manipped if I had had time, as it was I woke up just as Lotus closed the thread. I was pretty much inactive except for maybe a few seconds where I could have self pressed, but I was a big dummy and assumed rollover was an hour later due to timezone miscalculations. 

[Kasimir]

8 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

But it sounds like you think that I'm actualy suspicious of you. I'm not. I'm trying to throw my vote away, like I said.

[OOC: Given you have to date discussed no other players and have not attempted at any point whatsoever to back your suspicions up by placing them under lynch pressure, and have announced you will continue to keep voting for me until I get successfully tied/lynched due to your strategic plans, and that your vote on me pre-dated talk of your suspicions, I'm afraid I have to file your comments as empty words, which could be true or could just be said to appear active and participating in the game.]

4 hours ago, Archer said:

Easy group discussion question: when should shardblades, RBs, and kill protects be used?

[OOC: My view of Shardblades actually is more or less the same as Wyrm's. Which is less of a when and more of a how - secondary lynch, with a side of potentially cleaning out people you worry are lurker Elims, since this game allows lurking. Or removing me if you really want to LAFO me without having to waste two lynches on it and potentially open to vote manip. I don't think the when especially matters: I would be less gung ho about it as the numbers wane and we get closer to lylo, but in a smaller player size game like this, this is likely to be closer than we think anyway.

Interesting question/thought on RBs, now you mention the question. @Lotus, since Elim kills take up the card action slot, can they be card-blocked? 'Cause if that's a yes, obviously you have two options. I feel like counter-card play will be possible only with more intel, or possibly to stop vote manip, but one thing easy and helpful for an uninformed Village card-blocker to do is to literally try to card-block the NK.

Kill protects - same IMO. Lurcher's decision, usual advice of going for your trusts, but I wouldn't go for anyone who's close to the top of the lynch because obviously, that's where the NK won't go. (To be fair, 'trusts' and 'top of the lynch' usually do not overlap all that much.) There's a balance as you don't want to blow your cards away for no good reason, but at the same time, I feel that the ability to discover what cards another player has and card-block them means that you can be countered as well if the Elims know what cards you have. Elims have to spend the card action slot on the NK though so there may be a way to look at this mechanically, but certainly not at this early stage.

Given you'd go for your trusts, don't blow it too early because it's hard to develop trusts this early in the game without a voting record.

But that's all bog-standard stuff I think.]

Drake, Striker, want to hear what you think. @StrikerEZ, @Ashbringer, @Steeldancer (surely Picard has ended?), hello.

Edited to add: Since we're guessing/tracking:

8/3 or 10/2, down to 6/3 or 8/2.

In general, my view is that cards should be used, just be more judicious about the valuable ones. We get more cards, or have a chance to, and look at those numbers. I don't feel there's a distinctive midgame to save the cards for. If we assume just two gone this cycle, which is standard, we'll be on 4/3 (lylo!) or 6/2 (midgame feel, I think.) So come to think of it, maybe a two-man team is more likely. IDK. 

Elims will have to spend one card slot on the NK, so I expect they'll have a bigger bottleneck cards cannot be passed/transferred, and also the card kill slot. That's where the mechanical potential exists but at this stage, hard to prove IMO though let's see:

One of Pens, Two of Pens, One of Swords, Two of Swords are a bit more provable IMO, though defeasibly as they could imply players in cahoots with each other, and if you're on the lynch wagon, self-presing isn't really exculpatory, but might be more helpful if and when we get down to one Elim and a NK still happens. I guess Shardblade and the Guard cards sort go there but it's going to be a "No counterclaim" sort of case again.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Kasimir
bolded for Lotus

[StrikerEZ]

I think I’m going to place a vote on TUO. I was typing this up earlier last night and got distracted then fell asleep before I could finish.

@Kasimir I’m voting for TUO because I think their hasty retraction when put under pressure is most likely to be an elim tell. And if I had to exe someone else, my next choice would be Drake.

[---]

Your favorite votecount bot is remaining offline until after 6pm PST for work-related reasons

[Archer]

2 hours ago, Illwei said:

Your favorite votecount bot is remaining offline until after 6pm PST for work-related reasons

[But you'll still be around, right?

(I'm kidding, you're doing a great job) 

-I think Drake's reads are partially grounded in an (irrational) suspicion of Kas and TUO after they poked him at the start of the cycle. 

-A few people called each other Cheaters. If any of them are right, they may be Honest. Everyone's been diligently softing useful information in their RP right? You're not just making this stuff up, right guys. Guys? >. <

-I'd like to know if Fabian is a religious studies major. They didn't justify their poke, but I'm not sure how familiar they'd be with the concept, so I'd love to hear the train of thought that led to the vote. I accept that they forgot about the game, but would they have moved, had they been on? 

-Steel suggested a mass tie then retracted the suggestion because Kas wouldn't die. That's the main drawback... for the elim team. (Besides the potential for vote manip) 

-Is the opposite of a cat a mouse or a dog? Is the opposite of "I do not have any orders submited right now to use a sword on you" I do have it submitted on you? 

-Ignoring my role-read if Kas for a second, I can make a lovely two person team between him and Araris. Kas helped usher the village away from Araris after he'd attracted a lead's worth of votes. Interesting sidenote, depending if any kills get blocked, we may be able to gauge the elim team sized based on if the game ends when five people remain. That opens the door to hedge bets. 

-I kept reading Mat as sus on my thread crawl. He said Clever is a scummy role, which I think was partially based on him having it and being good, so he'd think the odds of whoever else has it being evil would be increased. He did the most rules analysis, so that could be threatening, but I'm wondering if the kill was submitted before the late round votes came in *cough looking at you, Araris*, because as the second vote on Elandera, he'd be a good mix candidate.

-Kas only got to make the final call because no one was on to challenge him for the honor. That's a village problem. Kas switched with two minutes to go, so lurking TUO needed to be very on his game with cancelling his vote manip order, or he really just forgot to get on and self pres. I'm leaning towards the latter.] 

[DrakeMarshall]

Just so everyone is in the dark about this, I think TUO is fairly likely to be evil. I have never brought this up before, but none of the people who put TUO up for the vote in the first place were the ones who shifted it to other people. This means other people were probably stepping in and trying to save TUO.

In the version of events where TUO is village, that means the other villagers voted them up and then shifted the vote like an hour or two later. Why would that be a thing? It wouldn't even in theory make sense as a distancing practice, even if people frequently pull together weird shenanigans like that on D1.

Edt: the only person who might be argued doesn't fit the mold of distancing from TUO with their vote is Matrim. And we know Matrim is a voidbringer.

Edited August 4, 2021 by DrakeMarshall

[Kasimir]

49 minutes ago, Archer said:

-Kas only got to make the final call because no one was on to challenge him for the honor. That's a village problem. Kas switched with two minutes to go, so lurking TUO needed to be very on his game with cancelling his vote manip order, or he really just forgot to get on and self pres. I'm leaning towards the latter.] 

[OOC: Point of order, according to the timestamp, I swapped at 2348hrs, and Lotus closed the cycle at 0002hrs, meaning that there was a fourteen minute window. I think the simplest explanation is best in this scenario though so unless there's further evidence, I'd go with forgetting to self-pres as well.]

4 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

@Kasimir I’m voting for TUO because I think their hasty retraction when put under pressure is most likely to be an elim tell. And if I had to exe someone else, my next choice would be Drake.

[OOC: Okay, but what's the point of creating ties then?

Literally everyone in this game talks about creating ties as if it's great. It kind of is. And it kind of isn't. If no one is going to analyse the ties/voting movements and we're back to 'TUO retracted fast when under pressure' - which to be fair, I agree with, it is a datapoint to keep in mind - then you and everyone else who's on the 'I love ties they look great' train are basically into making ties for the sake of making ties rather than for the purpose of generating data on players' priorities for analysis. And that's kind of Elim, because it's low effort, might sneak in a kill, but also not really needing to do anything.]

Quote

Elandera (3): Archer<2>, Mat<3>, Kas<5>
The Unknown Order (2): Mat<2>, Elan, Striker<3>, Kas<4>
Kasimir (2): Drake<1>, Fabien, Drake<3>
Ashbringer (1): Archer<1>, Araris<2>, Kas<3>
Araris (0): Kas<2>, Striker<2>
Archer (0): Mat<1>, Drake<2>
Steel (0): Striker<1>
Striker(0): Araris<1>
Drake (0): Kas<1>, TUO<1>

 Things that stand out to me from the voting movements:

• TUO point so noted. I vote on Drake to open things up, and TUO immediately jumps on. Mat points out that TUO hasn't budged, and TUO hops back off and admits that they have no reads, no suspects, no trusts. I do read it as being a little opportunistic, since there's pretty much anyone else TUO could poke at that point in time. So few had logged in. @The Unknown Order - you now have a cycle to work from. What are your thoughts at this point in time?
   
• Araris's vote on Ashbringer ended up being stable throughout several points in which Ash was in a tie. Noted what Fabien said; all the same, Araris's, Fabien's, Drake's, and Archer's votes appear reasonably stable. Archer came on towards the end of the cycle and didn't shift things, so presumably, he too, was happy with where things were heading.
   
• Sigh. I hate doing this but, alright, let's pathwalk.

On the assumption Elan/TUO is V/V:

Quote

Elandera (3): Archer<2>, Mat<3>, Kas<5>
The Unknown Order (2): Mat<2>, Elan, Striker<3>, Kas<4>
Kasimir (2): Drake<1>, Fabien, Drake<3>
Ashbringer (1): Archer<1>, Araris<2>, Kas<3>
Araris (0): Kas<2>, Striker<2>
Archer (0): Mat<1>, Drake<2>
Steel (0): Striker<1>
Striker(0): Araris<1>
Drake (0): Kas<1>, TUO<1>

Possible light Elim on Striker or Archer, but no more than one of them. Of the two, voting patterns point me to Archer as the more likely of the two, but based off posts, I'd put a bit more credence in Striker being Elim at this stage. In that scenario, I wouldn't expect the Elims to want to get involved with the lynch, and we know now that the TUO train was very heavily Village anyway.

My usual place to look for Elims are the peripherals: stable voters, side-trains, and in this case, non-voters. Our peripherals are largely <Fabien, Drake, Araris.> Steel and Ash don't vote, which is frustrating in terms of trying to get reads off them, but also convenient. So noted Archer's point on Steel - I'd read it as Steel being chaos demon, but I think Archer raises a fair point.

On the assumption Elan/TUO is V/E:

Quote

Elandera (3): Archer<2>, Mat<3>, Kas<5>
The Unknown Order (2): Mat<2>, Elan, Striker<3>, Kas<4>
Kasimir (2): Drake<1>, Fabien, Drake<3>
Ashbringer (1): Archer<1>, Araris<2>, Kas<3>
Araris (0): Kas<2>, Striker<2>
Archer (0): Mat<1>, Drake<2>
Steel (0): Striker<1>
Striker(0): Araris<1>
Drake (0): Kas<1>, TUO<1>

Archer didn't pull his vote, despite being on. I think in this scenario, Striker would not be Elim, but weakly so. Striker has no reason to try to turn a TUO train into a lead train - why force TUO to burn/squander his lynch-save card for no good reason? My read would be that the Elims either did not get on to notice the problem with TUO, or felt confident that TUO could self-protect. (That being said, that's...an interesting attitude with regard to card-spending and I'm reminded of Drake's view on cards, but this is a profiling point rather than a damning one and I'm pretty sure Araris and Archer are two players who'd be down for something like that too.) 

Just gonna point out here that Araris does come off a bit more suspicious in my eyes in this scenario for suggesting I'm teammates with TUO: if so, I have literally no reason to do a TUO move and then shift to Elan because that sort of drek looks way more suspicious. I'd be better off going Elan from the start rather than jumping onto TUO for such a short period of time. That statement just pinged my gut in the 'is this an Elim trying to set up someone with their teammate' light.

I'd stick with my profile, honestly. 3-2 is a significant amount of risk given volatility and the fact ties kill, and vote manip cards so I guess the Elims didn't play LG79 are fairly risk-friendly in this scenario. I'd still look in the off-trains. Archer swaps off Ash to Elan, and is in fact the starter of the Elan train. Drake likes some unorthodoxy so this is purely a profiling point, ditto for Araris.

Ultimately, the scenario resolves more or less similarly, but with a better read of Striker.

I do have a light credence in Village TUO though, because I don't think Elim teams necessarily want to burn that card - it'd require someone else to put in the NK and a lynch-saving card could be very useful for them as player numbers dwindle. 

Hey Archer. I don't believe I've yet gone into paranoia about you this game. I notice you were chill with how things were going on the Elan train near the end. Care to say more? 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Kasimir
Wrong colour on Mat

[Araris Valerian]

I'd consider joining a train on Archer this cycle. But I'd like to hear from a bunch of people before I move off of Fabien. Mostly TUO, Steel, and Ash, although it would be nice to get some more out of Striker as well.

12 hours ago, Kasimir said:

8/3 or 10/2, down to 6/3 or 8/2.

This should be 8/3 or 9/2, down to 6/3 or 7/2. So we are slightly less well off in the 2-elim scenario.

[Archer]

I need a better ship name for an elim Araris-Kas team. Kasaris feels basic. 

I liked the Elandera wagon. She'd said a lot of nothing and seemed to pull the TUO vote out of nowhere. I know TUO backed off easily in the face of criticism, but I didn't read it as unusual for them. And Elandera basically said that felt weird, here's my vote, but didn't make much of an effort to follow-up on it.

If TUO is evil, sure, I look bad for voting on Elandera instead of them, but then why'd I start a new wagon instead of adding to the existing one on Kas? Okay, the whole Thug thing could have messed with that, but I could have stayed on Ashbringer with Araris and had TUO self pres there and avoided having to rely on two villagers to change their minds. (Thank you for the correction, by the way, apparently I'm bad at reading timestamps.)

6 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

I think I’m going to place a vote on TUO. I was typing this up earlier last night and got distracted then fell asleep before I could finish.

@Kasimir I’m voting for TUO because I think their hasty retraction when put under pressure is most likely to be an elim tell. And if I had to exe someone else, my next choice would be Drake.

I'm curious what would make you change your vote, or if you're just going to stick to this reason until they're either exed or the game ends. 

[StrikerEZ]

4 minutes ago, Archer said:

I'm curious what would make you change your vote, or if you're just going to stick to this reason until they're either exed or the game ends. 

If someone else (probably Drake at this point) does something that makes me really suspicious of them over TUO, that's probably what would make me change my vote.

[Steeldancer]

Alright I'm done with Picard, so I have time again. I said I'd do some voting analysis, but I'm feeling too lazy to do that right now. 

I will point out that my chaotic idea was purely coming from a joking perspective. I would never actually encourage us to do that. I just found the idea of it funny, until I realized it wouldn't work because Kasimir wouldn't die, and that would ruin the point, because then instead of a tie it would be whatever Kasimir flips as would win. Not nearly as chaotic that way. 

Another random thing I read: Drake why do you feel like Matrim is confirmed evil? Every time I've played with him that I've thought he was evil, I was very very wrong about it. 

I'm going to refrain from voting for now, but I will actually vote this turn. I'm... Actually not entirely sure why I didn't end up voting last turn. I'm usually pretty good at voting. 

[Kasimir]

3 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

I'm going to refrain from voting for now, but I will actually vote this turn. I'm... Actually not entirely sure why I didn't end up voting last turn. I'm usually pretty good at voting. 

Mrw I read the first few words:

Spoiler

@Araris Valerian — Thanks for the catch. Why are you considering an Archer train?

@StrikerEZ — Why is Drake your secondary?

I'm going to come back later and finalise my vote as I do up a basic reads list. I'm in a bit too much pain to focus right now and my painkillers aren't working. I should have enough time but I don't want to expel Archer so here we go. 

[Steeldancer]

7 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Mrw I read the first few words:

  Reveal hidden contents

@Araris Valerian — Thanks for the catch. Why are you considering an Archer train?

@StrikerEZ — Why is Drake your secondary?

I'm going to come back later and finalise my vote as I do up a basic reads list. I'm in a bit too much pain to focus right now and my painkillers aren't working. I should have enough time but I don't want to expel Archer so here we go. 

What do you want from me, I literally have no reads at the moment. I am interested in what Drake has to say in response to my question though. 

[StrikerEZ]

30 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

@StrikerEZ — Why is Drake your secondary?

I feel like his insistence on going for you and no one else for awhile is counterproductive. Plus, half the time I’m having trouble trying to figure out what he’s saying, so knowing his alignment and then deciding if there might be any actual info in his posts would be helpful. As for why he’s my second, it’s that I think my suspicions on TUO are a little more founded.

[---]

8 hours ago, Archer said:

[But you'll still be around, right?

I knew this joke was coming, but I fully expected it to be from Kas... :p.

Anyways, your favorite - or in Archer's case what I assume will be second favorite at least - votecount bot is back, although tired!

 

---

Votecount 2.1

StrikerEZ (1): The Unknown Order
Fabien (1): Araris Valerian
Kasimir (1): DrakeMarshall
Araris (1): Archer
The Unknown Order (1): StrikerEZ
Not Voting (4): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, Kasimir, Fabien

Previous Vote Counts

Spoiler

Day 1 Ending: 

Elandera (3): Archer, Matrims Dice, Kasimir
The Unknown Order (2): Elandera, Striker
Kasimir (2): Fabien, DrakeMarshall
Ashbringer (1): Araris Valerian
Not Voting (3): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, The Unknown Order

Previous:

Spoiler

VC 1.0 (8/1, 10:50AM, PST)

Spoiler

Not Voting (11): Matrims Dice, The Unknown Order, Steeldancer, Ashbringer, StrikerEZ, Elandera, Araris Valerian,
Kasimir, Archer, DrakeMarshall, Fabien

VC 1.1 (8/1, 2:50PM, PST)

Spoiler

Drake (2): Kasimir, The Unknown Order
Striker (1): Araris Valerian
Not Voting (8): Matrims Dice, Steeldancer, Ashbringer, StrikerEZ, Elandera, Archer, DrakeMarshall, Fabien

VC 1.2 (8/1, 5:10PM, PST)

Spoiler

Drake (2): Kasimir, The Unknown Order
Archer (2): Matrims Dice, DrakeMarshall
Striker (1): Araris Valerian
Ashbringer (1): Archer
Not Voting (5): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, StrikerEZ, Elandera, Fabien

VC 1.3 (8/1, 11:50PM, PST)

Spoiler

Archer (2): Matrims Dice, DrakeMarshall
Ashbringer (2): Archer, Araris Valerian
Drake (1): The Unknown Order
Kasimir (1): Fabien
Araris Valerian (1): Kasimir
Steeldancer (1): StrikerEZ
Not Voting (3): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, Elandera

VC 1.4 (8/2, 12:50PM, PST)

Spoiler

Kasimir (2): Fabien, DrakeMarshall
Ashbringer (2): Archer, Araris Valerian
Drake (1): The Unknown Order
Araris Valerian (1): Kasimir
Steeldancer (1): StrikerEZ
Not Voting (4): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, Elandera, Matrim

VC 1.5 (8/3, 12:30 AM, PST)

Spoiler

Kasimir (2): Fabien, DrakeMarshall
Ashbringer (2): Archer, Araris Valerian
Araris Valerian (2): Kasimir, Striker
The Unknown Order (1): Matrims Dice
Not Voting (4): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, Elandera, Matrims Dice, The Unknown Order

Day 2:

VC 2.0 (8/3, 10:30AM, PST)

Spoiler

Not Voting (9): The Unknown Order, Steeldancer, Ashbringer, StrikerEZ, Araris Valerian,
Kasimir, Archer, DrakeMarshall, Fabien

Ping me for a votecount when you need, or wait til I feel like doing one.

[Araris Valerian]

53 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Why are you considering an Archer train?

Same reason I said earlier; I read his interaction with Ash as potentially e/e.

I'm also feeling weird leaving my vote on Fabien for so long. But I think, since you retracted from Archer, I'm gonna stick to my guns for now.

[DrakeMarshall]

7 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Another random thing I read: Drake why do you feel like Matrim is confirmed evil? Every time I've played with him that I've thought he was evil, I was very very wrong about it. 

Only dead people have unknown alignments, it is quite easy to tell the alignment of living people. That is how I know for sure Matrim is evil.

Smh you should have asked me about this some more before going and reading the writeups 

Tbh I feel like the elims are less likely than most to know who their team is targeting, so I figure you are probably a voidbringer like Matrim.

If this explanation is confusing, well, I'm not sorry  I am being very honest in this game like my name says.

3 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

I feel like his insistence on going for you and no one else for awhile is counterproductive. Plus, half the time I’m having trouble trying to figure out what he’s saying, so knowing his alignment and then deciding if there might be any actual info in his posts would be helpful. As for why he’s my second, it’s that I think my suspicions on TUO are a little more founded.

So here's somethig I'm not particularly curious about. I'm sure you remember, but that person that TUO voted for and then retracted was somebody other than me. Your reasoning seems to be that village!TUO wasn't afraid of being called out on a shoddy vote, so they held their ground when other people pushed back against it. But if that were true, then TUO and myself really have to be E/E. Seeing as TUO and me aren't really your top two suspicions right now, does this concern you?

Also, is there a large amount of analysis that you would do on my posts if I flipped that you aren't doing right now?

[Kasimir]

Hmm.

Unlike certain embarrassing circumstances of which we shall not speak (smh Eiwlil don't you even), I expect to get on a little later and not be playing Hades.

In light of that:

Drake.

Edited to add: This gives us:

Quote

StrikerEZ (1): The Unknown Order
Fabien (1): Araris Valerian
Kasimir (1): DrakeMarshall
DrakeMarshall (1): Kasimir
Araris (1): Archer
The Unknown Order (1): StrikerEZ
Not Voting (4): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, Kasimir, Fabien

Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Kasimir