Why did Honor perish - the simple theory

[+Oltux72]

I know, people want elaborate stuff. But I think simple explanations are superior, if they work. So why did Honor perish?

He put too much of his power into gluing Odium to the Rosharan system. It even survived his death. That must have taken a major share of his power. As simple as that.

[ConfusedCow]

He was betrayed by Cultivation.  She changed, grew beyond his love, his sense of duty, the restrictions he put upon himself.  His embrace became a prison rather than a shelter.  He saw it coming, understood her nature, knew she would betray him and choose freedom, passion, Odium. Still he loved her. Still he felt bound by his oaths to her.  This drove him insane, crushed his faith in people.  He could have fought, could have fled, could have lived.  He chose instead to die slowly, in the hope that someone else might take up his power and find the answers, the faith, the love he couldn't.  

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, ConfusedCow said:

He was betrayed by Cultivation.  She changed, grew beyond his love, his sense of duty, the restrictions he put upon himself.  His embrace became a prison rather than a shelter.

Who betrayed whom? Now, you may see Honor's action as the honorable thing for the greater good of the Cosmere. But he also unleashed hell upon Cultivation, the Ashynites and the natives of Roshar. The latter two he certainly did not ask for permission.

[Frustration]

10 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Who betrayed whom? Now, you may see Honor's action as the honorable thing for the greater good of the Cosmere. But he also unleashed hell upon Cultivation, the Ashynites and the natives of Roshar. The latter two he certainly did not ask for permission.

Um, if I do recall Odium is bound that is a decided win for everyone, Roshar included.

[+Oltux72]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Um, if I do recall Odium is bound that is a decided win for everyone, Roshar included.

After multiple wars with overall death rates over 90%? That is a peculair kind of win.

[ConfusedCow]

Cultivation betrayed honor, at least in my mind/theory.   I don't think Honor is responsible (in a technical ethical sense) for the eternal cycle of desolations.  Though I don't deny he played a part in getting us there. 

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

After multiple wars with overall death rates over 90%? That is a peculair kind of win.

Odium was bound long before that happened, that was Odium doing something Honor didn't anticipate.

[+Oltux72]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Odium was bound long before that happened, that was Odium doing something Honor didn't anticipate.

What did Honor think Odium was going to do?

Learn to play bagpipes, write keteks and have tea parties? You chain a Shard wit a record of three dead Shards to your system and expect a peaceful future. If that is indeed true I must question Honor's basic mental functions.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

What did Honor think Odium was going to do?

Learn to play bagpipes, write keteks and have tea parties? You chain a Shard wit a record of three dead Shards to your system and expect a peaceful future. If that is indeed true I must question Honor's basic mental functions.

Well humans were fleaing Odium, and indebt to him, the singer had worshipped him for thousands of years, and he doesn't have the best foresight, it's not unreasonable.

[ConfusedCow]

I don't disagree with you Oltux.  Honor did make himself vulnerable in helping the humans and the Singers and Roshar.  He spent too much of himself in trying to contain Odium.  In the end though it wasn't a tactical blunder, it was a grand sacrifice for love and duty.  Helen's beauty was the death of Hector.  Arthur loved Guenevere and Guenevere loved Lancelot.  As Tyrion would say "Sometimes duty is the death of love". 

[ConfusedCow]

I think to Honor, dying in glorious battle for a noble cause is not a terrible fate.  This isn't a curse he's left mortals with.  It's an opportunity to join in the quest for justice across the Cosmere.  I disagree of course.  War is too easily glorified.  It becomes an inevitability that justifies itself.  It's too easy to lose sight of other's humanity and the universe of options once you start fighting.  Still it's a common enough frame of mind and the natural outlook of a worldview dominated by the intent of honor.  

[+Oltux72]

15 hours ago, ConfusedCow said:

I don't disagree with you Oltux.  Honor did make himself vulnerable in helping the humans and the Singers and Roshar.  He spent too much of himself in trying to contain Odium.  In the end though it wasn't a tactical blunder, it was a grand sacrifice for love and duty.

Well, for whom? Odium was eager to make a deal that would allow him to leave. He would have spared Roshar.

As for the ethics, well if you give your own money to charity, that is laudable. If you give money you hold in trust for somebody else, we call that criminal. It seems to me that Honor was closer to the latter than the former.