Voices in szeth's head

[Pratyaksh]

I have a theory that I don't know If it has been addressed.

There was a stone or something whose voice was heard by szeth in his youth. Could the stone have been one of the unmade?

Especially ba-ado?

[Jondesu]

I think the Oathstone has been confirmed not to be magical. Lemme see if I can find it. Here:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/128/#e5726
 

Quote

wlmkfi (paraphrased)

If i was holding Szeth's Oathstone would he understand my commands?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Good question, I don't believe anyone has asked it before. No, an Oathstone doesn't have any magical properties whatsoever.

The question wasn’t the same but I think the answer is conclusive.

[+mdross81]

1 hour ago, Pratyaksh said:

There was a stone or something whose voice was heard by szeth in his youth. Could the stone have been one of the unmade?

If you’re referencing the scene I think, we’re never told the voice from his youth came from a stone. From OB 92:

Quote

“I knew a voice like yours once, sword-nimi.”

The whispers?

“No. A single one, in my mind, when I was young.” Szeth shaded his eyes, looking across the glistening lake. “I hope things go better this time.”

That said, it’s possible an Unmade could have been involved somehow.

[Pratyaksh]

I may be wrong but somewhere there is something in oathbringer or row about a talking rock

[Pratyaksh]

1 hour ago, Jondesu said:

I think the Oathstone has been confirmed not to be magical. Lemme see if I can find it. Here:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/128/#e5726
 

The question wasn’t the same but I think the answer is conclusive.

I was not taking about oathstone I am talking about something else, maybe before szeth was truthless

 

 

[Frustration]

@Pratyaksh please don't post multiple time in a row without womeone else posting.

And If it's an unmade it's more likely to be Dai-Gonalthis or Chemorish than Ba-Ado-Mishram

[+mdross81]

1 hour ago, Pratyaksh said:

I may be wrong but somewhere there is something in oathbringer or row about a talking rock

Yeah, in that same chapter as the quote I posted above, Nightblood kinda mockingly refers to Szeth’s oathstone as a magic rock:

Quote

“I was sworn to obey.”

By a magic rock.

He had explained his past to the sword several times now. For some reason, it had difficulty understanding—or remembering—certain things.

I don’t recall any reference to a talking rock though.

[spaidapig]

23 hours ago, mdross81 said:

Quote

“I knew a voice like yours once, sword-nimi.”

The whispers?

“No. A single one, in my mind, when I was young.” Szeth shaded his eyes, looking across the glistening lake. “I hope things go better this time.”

That said, it’s possible an Unmade could have been involved somehow.

I think he is talking about the first spren he was about to bond.
That which led to him being named truthless.

[+mdross81]

20 minutes ago, spaidapig said:

I think he is talking about the first spren he was about to bond.
That which led to him being named truthless.

This is what I’ve always thought as well, though we don’t know for sure. 

[spaidapig]

We don't know for sure, but often the most simple options turns out to be the right one.

Which doesn't mean I would be surprised if it turned out to be an Unmade wispering to Szeth.
I'm still waiting for a possible Unmade Radiant. This could lead to awesome powers only matched by those of a Bondsmith.

[Pseudonymous]

I just came across this in OB chapt 92 where zeth is speaking with Nightblood. I seem to remeber some WoB's since this post was originally created, where brandon implied honor blades are conscious. I'm wondering, could this be eluding to, or foreshadowing, that an honor blade was speaking in zeths mind? As we know he practiced with them when he was young.

[alder24]

25 minutes ago, Pseudonymous said:

I just came across this in OB chapt 92 where zeth is speaking with Nightblood. I seem to remeber some WoB's since this post was originally created, where brandon implied honor blades are conscious. I'm wondering, could this be eluding to, or foreshadowing, that an honor blade was speaking in zeths mind? As we know he practiced with them when he was young.

Please do not necro-post - this topic is almost 3 years old, it's against the site's polity to revive threads that old.

The WoB you're referring to:

Spoiler

Fluffy (paraphrased)

When the Five Scholars traveled to Roshar, this happened post Recreance, so most Shardblades would have been dead, how did Nightblood gain sapience?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Shardblades weren’t the only Blades around that were active, there were Honorblades. Honorblades are self-aware, but do not manifest a spren in the Cognitive Realm.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 15, 2022)

Honorblades are self-aware but that's not the same as having the ability to talk - which they don't have. They aren't sapient.

I think it was a spren bonding with Szeth and talking to him. Szeth had to somehow know that a new Desolation is coming and who would know it better than a spren feeling it coming? The question then is what happened to that spren and their bond. I think the spren was either captured in a gemstone, or the bond was broken by Szeth's father, who had Ishar's Honorblade and Bondsmith's power. But if the bond was broken and spren wasn't imprisoned, where would they be now? They should bond someone else.

[Pseudonymous]

46 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Please do not necro-post - this topic is almost 3 years old, it's against the site's polity to revive threads that old.

The WoB you're referring to:

  Hide contents

Fluffy (paraphrased)

When the Five Scholars traveled to Roshar, this happened post Recreance, so most Shardblades would have been dead, how did Nightblood gain sapience?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Shardblades weren’t the only Blades around that were active, there were Honorblades. Honorblades are self-aware, but do not manifest a spren in the Cognitive Realm.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 15, 2022)

Honorblades are self-aware but that's not the same as having the ability to talk - which they don't have. They aren't sapient.

I think it was a spren bonding with Szeth and talking to him. Szeth had to somehow know that a new Desolation is coming and who would know it better than a spren feeling it coming? The question then is what happened to that spren and their bond. I think the spren was either captured in a gemstone, or the bond was broken by Szeth's father, who had Ishar's Honorblade and Bondsmith's power. But if the bond was broken and spren wasn't imprisoned, where would they be now? They should bond someone else.

I apologize, didn't know not to do that. Would it have been more appropriate to start a new a new thread posing this question? So I don't make the same mistake in the future.

Thanks

[Treamayne]

7 hours ago, Pseudonymous said:

I apologize, didn't know not to do that. Would it have been more appropriate to start a new a new thread posing this question? So I don't make the same mistake in the future.

Thanks

Yes, more specifically from the policy:

Spoiler

Quote

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• Legitimate reasons for reviving a post could include;
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  • The topic in question is specifically meant to be ongoing (eg. Typo threads)
  • Many old topics have been locked to prevent thread necro’ing--if you believe a thread should be reopened, please contact a moderator.

 

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[+Child of Hodor]

The voice from his youth is either an unmade or a Spren. My theory is it’s the same Highspren he’s bonded to now. He has notably never heard his current Spren speak. 

[alder24]

35 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

The voice from his youth is either an unmade or a Spren. My theory is it’s the same Highspren he’s bonded to now. He has notably never heard his current Spren speak. 

He did, he didn't recognize his voice. RoW I-7:

Quote

He knelt before the highspren.
“You do well, my acolyte,” the spren said, its tone formal. “You are vigilant and dedicated.”

[Pseudonymous]

On 3/10/2024 at 5:29 AM, alder24 said:

The WoB you're referring to:

  Reveal hidden contents

Fluffy (paraphrased)

When the Five Scholars traveled to Roshar, this happened post Recreance, so most Shardblades would have been dead, how did Nightblood gain sapience?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Shardblades weren’t the only Blades around that were active, there were Honorblades. Honorblades are self-aware, but do not manifest a spren in the Cognitive Realm.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 15, 2022)

Honorblades are self-aware but that's not the same as having the ability to talk - which they don't have. They aren't sapient....

Totally get what your saying here, but I feel like there was a live stream where Brandon was being cheeky about if the honor blades could talk to the heralds or not. All these other blades are based off of the honor blades, the spren saw what honor did with the heralds and they used the nahl bond and manifested as blades, the 5 Scholars traveled to roshar and were inspired by honor/shardblades to make night blood, vivena had some knowledge of nightblood which would potentially lead to the creation of her blade. Not a hill I'm trying to die on, but I have noticed these things and you are all the arcanists who know your stuff. I struggle with the spren coming to zeth when he was young, and with him not remembering the voice and I don't buy an unmade being the voice. Is there something spe ific you can point to that says ho or blades don't have the ability to talk or is that just based on them not doing so on screen?

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Pseudonymous said:

Totally get what your saying here, but I feel like there was a live stream where Brandon was being cheeky about if the honor blades could talk to the heralds or not.

I was unable to find any WoB like that.

9 hours ago, Pseudonymous said:

All these other blades are based off of the honor blades, the spren saw what honor did with the heralds and they used the nahl bond and manifested as blades

Spren, unlike Honorblades, are fully aware and sentient. Spren are Splinters of Honor, Honorblades aren't. Spren can talk, Honorblades should not be able to. No blade was talking to Kalak in WoK Prelude.

If that was a Honorblade talking to him, then why Jezrien's blade didn't talk to him?

9 hours ago, Pseudonymous said:

I struggle with the spren coming to zeth when he was young, and with him not remembering the voice

But he remembers that voice, he mentioned it himself, he regrets whatever happened there - it possibly ended up in a tragedy. Those memories seem painful to him, that’s why Szeth didn’t monologue about this voice for 5 pages. He mentioned it, that's enough.

9 hours ago, Pseudonymous said:

Is there something spe ific you can point to that says ho or blades don't have the ability to talk or is that just based on them not doing so on screen?

They have never spoken on pages, nobody has ever mentioned that they can, the WoB posted above said they aren't aware enough to manifest in CR, and this WoB where Brandon mistakenly talks about Honorblades, saying they aren't sentient and they don't have a Cognitive form/spren (per Syl everything have a Spren, if Honorblades don't have it, it means they can't talk):

Spoiler

StarburstWrapperTie

What kind of spren is Oathbringer, the Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Oathbringer is not technically a spren. Why I call these things the Honorblades, kind of where the whole Shardblade concept fits in, is that these are literally pieces of Honor's soul that he Splintered off and formed weapons out of for the Heralds. These didn't actually have sentience, in the same way that the spren forming most of the Shardblades are. They're literally a piece of the god who ruled this world turned into weapons. And the spren, who are also pieces of the same divinity, saw what was happening, and this kind of became a model by which Shardblades came about.

So Oathbringer doesn't have a spren. If you wanted to call it something, call it a sliver of Honor that has been manifested in physical form. That does mean the blade would actually be made of Tanavast's god metal, so tanavastium, if you want to call it that.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, that's just me hearing what I wanted to hear, not what was actually asked. It happens more often than I'd like; I get into this groove of answering questions, and start answering what I'm thinking about rather than what actually gets asked. A lot of times, I'm expecting a question (often because it's one that gets asked a lot, like what are Shardblades made out of) and my brain defaults to the answer I've prepared. I think it might be because I've trained myself to answer questions while doing other things.

Oathbringer's not an Honorblade. It was a Stoneward's blade a long time ago, with the corresponding spren.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

Honorblades are pieces of raw Honor Investiture turned into weapons.

Edited March 16 by alder24

[Pseudonymous]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I was unable to find any WoB like that.

Spren, unlike Honorblades, are fully aware and sentient. Spren are Splinters of Honor, Honorblades aren't. Spren can talk, Honorblades should not be able to. No blade was talking to Kalak in WoK Prelude.

If that was a Honorblade talking to him, then why Jezrien's blade didn't talk to him?

But he remembers that voice, he mentioned it himself, he regrets whatever happened there - it possibly ended up in a tragedy. Those memories seem painful to him, that’s why Szeth didn’t monologue about this voice for 5 pages. He mentioned it, that's enough.

They have never spoken on pages, nobody has ever mentioned that they can, the WoB posted above said they aren't aware enough to manifest in CR, and this WoB where Brandon mistakenly talks about Honorblades, saying they aren't sentient and they don't have a Cognitive form/spren (per Sl everything have a Spren, if Honorblades don't have it, it means they can't talk):

  Hide contents

StarburstWrapperTie

What kind of spren is Oathbringer, the Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Oathbringer is not technically a spren. Why I call these things the Honorblades, kind of where the whole Shardblade concept fits in, is that these are literally pieces of Honor's soul that he Splintered off and formed weapons out of for the Heralds. These didn't actually have sentience, in the same way that the spren forming most of the Shardblades are. They're literally a piece of the god who ruled this world turned into weapons. And the spren, who are also pieces of the same divinity, saw what was happening, and this kind of became a model by which Shardblades came about.

So Oathbringer doesn't have a spren. If you wanted to call it something, call it a sliver of Honor that has been manifested in physical form. That does mean the blade would actually be made of Tanavast's god metal, so tanavastium, if you want to call it that.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, that's just me hearing what I wanted to hear, not what was actually asked. It happens more often than I'd like; I get into this groove of answering questions, and start answering what I'm thinking about rather than what actually gets asked. A lot of times, I'm expecting a question (often because it's one that gets asked a lot, like what are Shardblades made out of) and my brain defaults to the answer I've prepared. I think it might be because I've trained myself to answer questions while doing other things.

Oathbringer's not an Honorblade. It was a Stoneward's blade a long time ago, with the corresponding spren.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

Honorblades are pieces of raw Honor Investiture turned into weapons.

All good info, thank you alder can't wait too see how stormlight 5 wraps up this arc and leaves us pondering and theorizing for many years to come!

[+Child of Hodor]

On 3/16/2024 at 9:01 AM, alder24 said:

He did, he didn't recognize his voice. RoW I-7:

I forgot about this. I need to start my reread. 

[Treach]

On 3/10/2024 at 7:29 AM, alder24 said:

Please do not necro-post - this topic is almost 3 years old, it's against the site's polity to revive threads that old.

The WoB you're referring to:

  Reveal hidden contents

Fluffy (paraphrased)

When the Five Scholars traveled to Roshar, this happened post Recreance, so most Shardblades would have been dead, how did Nightblood gain sapience?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Shardblades weren’t the only Blades around that were active, there were Honorblades. Honorblades are self-aware, but do not manifest a spren in the Cognitive Realm.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 15, 2022)

Honorblades are self-aware but that's not the same as having the ability to talk - which they don't have. They aren't sapient.

I think it was a spren bonding with Szeth and talking to him. Szeth had to somehow know that a new Desolation is coming and who would know it better than a spren feeling it coming? The question then is what happened to that spren and their bond. I think the spren was either captured in a gemstone, or the bond was broken by Szeth's father, who had Ishar's Honorblade and Bondsmith's power. But if the bond was broken and spren wasn't imprisoned, where would they be now? They should bond someone else.

It just occurred to me how that chain of events, possibly, unfolded. 

 

Szeth: The Voidbringers are coming back, and I can hear this spren who is trying to bond me. 

Dad: You're a filthy liar. I'm naming you truthless and using my magical Bondsmith piece of god to bind you to a rock so you have to do whatever its holder tells you. No, you can't kill yourself either, that's too good for the likes of you. 

Szeth: What about the magic sword? 

Dad: Keep it, we will get it when you die. Be gone.

 

Father of the year award nominee right there. 

[alder24]

34 minutes ago, Treach said:

Dad: You're a filthy liar. I'm naming you truthless and using my magical Bondsmith piece of god to bind you to a rock so you have to do whatever its holder tells you. No, you can't kill yourself either, that's too good for the likes of you. 

The Oathstone held no power over Szeth, he wasn't bound to it, he just did as he was obligated by the law and his honor.

OB ch 92:

Quote

You killed them.
“I was sworn to obey.”
By a magic rock.
He had explained his past to the sword several times now. For some reason, it had difficulty understanding—or remembering—certain things. “The Oathstone had no magic. I obeyed because of honor, and I sometimes obeyed evil or petty men. Now I seek a higher ideal