Feruchemy Works on Roshar!

[Daughter of Tanavast]

Hey guys! I'm sure this topic has already been discussed in depth (particularly because of Axindweth), but I wanted to add my contribution anyway. 

I had the opportunity to get a book signed by Brandon, and I was allowed to ask a question for him to write the answer to! So I asked "Could the Terrisman (the one that Lift found dead in the attack on Urithiru) have used feruchemical abilities on Roshar, despite the different types of Investiture present on each planet?" 

The answer written in my book was "Yes. Feruchemy works on Roshar." 

I think that's INTRIGUING, especially because, for example, the Ghostbloods (and Kelek) can't get stormlight off of Roshar. 

My theory for this is that feruchemy works off-world while stormlight doesn't is that it's a completely internal type of magic, as the power comes entirely from one's self if they're born with the ability. 

Does anyone have any insights or theories or WOBs that apply? 

Does anyone have any theories for how someone could successfully get stormlight off of Roshar? 

[+Invocation]

Allomancy and Hemalurgy also work on Roshar, including with Rosharan metals. The thing with Stormlight, spren, and the Heralds is a Connection issue, since it's Honor's Investiture that's been laid down deeply on Roshar, whereas the Metallic Arts use the metals basically as keys to access the Investiture, so the molecular structure of the metal is all that's important. Also Stormlight being actively consumed by the Radiant while also being unique to Roshar probably plays into it some.
To break Stormlight free of the Rosharan system would require some serious work. With RoW's revelation of anti-Investiture comes the idea of anti-Connection, and that might work, but it also may not be possible and/or have some really funky side effects. Other solutions could be a willing change on the part of someone who glues Honor back together and Ascends, if they know to do that. Or some other form of Connection manipulation to make the Stormlight and the spren less inherently tied to Roshar and tied more closely to something portable that would be carried around. Could make the spren's Connection to the Radiant greater than their tie to Roshar to ensure they'd be able to stay paired off-world, though that probably has some side effects for both parties, but making a perfect gemstone an anchor for a ton of Stormlight would probably go better as long as wherever it's going has someone who can undo that change.
Lift may also be able to generate her Lifelight off-world since it's a direct metabolic function, which may be the most reliable method to prevent off-world Radiants from running out, but doesn't solve their spren's issue. (Can spren get Old-Magic'd from the Nightwatcher?)
Actually now that I'm thinking about it, you could probably shenanigan someone from Scadrial with access to Chromium abilities to transfer Investiture. It would take some doing, but it could probably be done.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Invocation

[LewsTherinTelescope]

4 hours ago, Invocation said:

With RoW's revelation of anti-Investiture comes the idea of anti-Connection

I feel like there's not really evidence for that. Connection is a force more than a proper "thing" (that's not the right phrasing but not sure how exactly to put it). That's like saying anti-matter implies anti-gravity or an anti-strong force or something. 

[Jondesu]

5 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I feel like there's not really evidence for that. Connection is a force more than a proper "thing" (that's not the right phrasing but not sure how exactly to put it). That's like saying anti-matter implies anti-gravity or an anti-strong force or something. 

You’re telling me anti-gravity isn’t a thing? Say it ain’t so!

[Halyo_Alex]

2 hours ago, Jondesu said:

You’re telling me anti-gravity isn’t a thing? Say it ain’t so!

you'd need negative mass, which is impossible according to general relativity.

 

Fun fact: Particles with "imaginary mass" (like mass that's based on the square root of -1) can only move faster than light (tachyons).

Hmm. Imaginary. Like... cognitive? I'm probably taking that too literally but who knows.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

you'd need negative mass, which is impossible according to general relativity.

But if exotic matter exists....

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, Frustration said:

But if exotic matter exists....

Better idea: Exotic Investiture.

[Honorless]

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

you'd need negative mass, which is impossible according to general relativity.

Not impossible according to Quantum Mechanics or String Theory though! And even in General Relativity, it doesn't violate the entire theory!

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, Honorless said:

Not impossible according to Quantum Mechanics or String Theory though! And even in General Relativity, it doesn't violate the entire theory!

Sounds like a job for a far-future soulcasting expert. Making antimatter, exotic matter... damnation, if that's possible... Era 4 just got a whole lot cooler in my head.

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Sounds like a job for a far-future soulcasting expert. Making antimatter, exotic matter... damnation, if that's possible... Era 4 just got a whole lot cooler in my head.

Or strange matter if we really want some destruction.

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, Frustration said:

Or strange matter if we really want some destruction.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

19 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Sounds like a job for a far-future soulcasting expert. Making antimatter, exotic matter... damnation, if that's possible... Era 4 just got a whole lot cooler in my head.

Tbf if they work out Soulcasting antimatter they're probably gonna destroy the entire planet the very first time they do it, when they expect the explosions to be as mild as anti-Light and they are not

Edited July 19, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Tbf if they work out Soulcasting antimatter they're probably gonna destroy the entire planet when they expect the explosions to be as mild as anti-Light and they are not

Shattered Plains 2: Electrum Boogaloo

[Daughter of Tanavast]

6 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Tbf if they work out Soulcasting antimatter they're probably gonna destroy the entire planet the very first time they do it, when they expect the explosions to be as mild as anti-Light and they are not

Theory: that's actually what happened on Ashyn 

[+Invocation]

16 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I feel like there's not really evidence for that. Connection is a force more than a proper "thing" (that's not the right phrasing but not sure how exactly to put it). That's like saying anti-matter implies anti-gravity or an anti-strong force or something. 

I feel like I didn't phrase it right in my initial thing, so that's my bad. I'm picturing anti-Connection as blank Connection, not so much a Connection-annihilator. Just something that mixes with existing Connection and waters it down until it's neutral again and ready to be shaped into Connecting to specific things. And that's somethin already established in the cosmere: Scadrian language medallions.

[Halyo_Alex]

15 hours ago, Invocation said:

I feel like I didn't phrase it right in my initial thing, so that's my bad. I'm picturing anti-Connection as blank Connection, not so much a Connection-annihilator. Just something that mixes with existing Connection and waters it down until it's neutral again and ready to be shaped into Connecting to specific things. And that's somethin already established in the cosmere: Scadrian language medallions.

technically I think the anti-tone can silence Connections based on that tone. Look at what happened to Moash when Navani used the anti-voidlight tone. His emotion suppression was neutralized.

[+Invocation]

9 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

technically I think the anti-tone can silence Connections based on that tone. Look at what happened to Moash when Navani used the anti-voidlight tone. His emotion suppression was neutralized.

Yeah, neutralizing Investiture obliterates the Connection that comes with it, but that wouldn't be useful for getting Stormlight off-world. You'd just blow yourself up. 

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, Invocation said:

Yeah, neutralizing Investiture obliterates the Connection that comes with it, but that wouldn't be useful for getting Stormlight off-world. You'd just blow yourself up. 

I'm not saying "stab a radiant with an anti-stormlight knife to cut their connection to Roshar".
I'm saying, it may be possible to do what Navani did to make Anti-Voidlight but quieter, so that the investiture hears nothing when moving into the second gemstone. Perfectly antinoise the original Tone.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I'm saying, it may be possible to do what Navani did to make Anti-Voidlight but quieter, so that the investiture hears nothing when moving into the second gemstone. Perfectly antinoise the original Tone.

I think that'd just result in it staying Voidlight, since Brandon's said it's probably just dampened in the vacuum, not blank.

[apepi]

I mean, I don't think people knew that it worked this way.

They could use metals on Roshar too, but no one has the connection/spiritual dna to actually use it. You probably could do hemuralrgy, but that requires intent. But it is possible that we might see the Ghostbloods try to pull it off.

[Halyo_Alex]

12 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I think that'd just result in it staying Voidlight, since Brandon's said it's probably just dampened in the vacuum, not blank.

Right. Dampened by the vacuum, totally silenced by a quiet Anti-tone.

[Jondesu]

9 hours ago, apepi said:

But it is possible that we might see the Ghostbloods try to pull it off.

I think it likely that we already have seen them at least try.

Quote

“It was an old Alethi man in robes. He’d been killed with some kind of knife wound to the chest”

This was the Feruchemist (reportedly) with a pet chicken (Aviar), so something may have been stolen from him with Hemalurgy.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

4 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Right. Dampened by the vacuum, totally silenced by a quiet Anti-tone.

Wouldn't that just repel it?

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Wouldn't that just repel it?

Well... then how does giving it the normal volume anti-tone as the first thing it hears out of the vacuum to make anti-light not repel it?

Edited July 21, 2021 by Halyo_Alex
clarified

[LewsTherinTelescope]

2 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Well... then how does giving it the normal volume anti-tone as the first thing it hears out of the vacuum to make anti-light not repel it?

I'd guess it's specifically because it's dampened, and because there's the Intent of applying it. Kinda overwhelming it. If they were both even, I could see it either being repelled or just being assigned weakly, or even just being annihilated (destructive interference that cancels to zero is theoretically how the anti-Light + Light annihilation happens, after all), but can't see it being nullified and still existing.