+Oltux72 Posted July 11, 2021 Report Share Posted July 11, 2021 There have been speculations about Cognitive Shadows becoming Odium's champions. The next step is to wonder who is antagonistic to Dalinar Kholin, the Knights Radiant or mankind is good at fighting died in a highly Invested state And that leaves us with a candidate, who really hates Dalinar, was a soldier for decades and died with his whole matabolism being transformed to run on Investiture and using Surges like there was no tomorrow (well, there wasn't): Meridas Amaram 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFlea Posted July 11, 2021 Report Share Posted July 11, 2021 In this case, Gavilar makes more sense and is my fave pic atm for Odiums Champion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Use the Falchion Posted July 12, 2021 Report Share Posted July 12, 2021 It's possible, but I don't think Amaram would be an interesting choice. His thematic relevance to Dalinar has already been played out. Bringing him back when he lost the moral and physical battles, as well as the battles for his soul (and not to mention having been used by one Kholin brother and outsmarted by a second one), it just doesn't make him that interesting. Besides, we don't know what happens to a soul once Yelig-Nar's gem is eaten. I've said my piece over Gavilar before, and I'll sum it up quickly here: While I do like and enjoy the theories that Gavilar is still kicking as a Cognitive Shadow, I don't think him being Odium's Champion is as emotionally or thematically resonant as people believe it to be. Dalinar's guilt over Gavilar's death was dealt with at the end of WoR, and Gavilar is neither a victim (we care about anymore), nor a moral threat to overcome. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmcclure7 Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 On 7/11/2021 at 6:15 PM, LordFlea said: In this case, Gavilar makes more sense and is my fave pic atm for Odiums Champion Gavilar son would be better choice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 On 7/11/2021 at 5:15 PM, LordFlea said: In this case, Gavilar makes more sense How was he invested enough? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 23 minutes ago, Frustration said: How was he invested enough? How did he have Voidlight? How did he have Anti-Light? How did he travel to and from Shadesmar? How did he know about other worlds and the larger Cosmere? We already know he had formed a Bond with the Stormfather, as he was seeing Honor's visions. Thus he was a Radiant and capable of being Invested with Stormlight. All the other questions are relevant, and I'm very confident they will be answered in SA5. I'm also confident that Gavilar WILL be shown as both a "moral threat" and, if not a victim exactly, certainly someone whose lust for power will be manipulated to serve Odium. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mdross81 Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 52 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: We already know he had formed a Bond with the Stormfather, as he was seeing Honor's visions. Thus he was a Radiant and capable of being Invested with Stormlight. I’m working on a Gavilar post of my own so this WoB is fresh in my mind: Quote Questioner The visions Dalinar gets in WoK always struck me as odd - you don't just look at the past, you are able to act within this experience. Now we know that Gavilar was also on the way to being a Bondsmith - was he acting in a different way? Were the visions only basically the same but different in the end depending on the personal reactions? Is this something like a test? Brandon Sanderson He did see the same visions. They were the same thing. But... I will say that his reaction to them were very different from Dalinar's reactions to them. Anyway it was difficult for the Stormfather without a bond to determine/to tell the difference between very easily. When Spren are bonded, they gain a lot more ability to understand the world around then, so you'll find out soon more stuff about this in the third book. Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017) Gavilar did receive the visions but didn’t get far enough along to bond the Stormfather. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, mdross81 said: Gavilar did receive the visions but didn’t get far enough along to bond the Stormfather. Curses! Reality once again forces me to revise my opinions. Thanks for pointing that out. There are, however, multiple other ways Gavilar might have been Invested when he died. A Radiant Bond we don't know about yet, Stormlight some other way, Voidlight somehow, Biochromatic Breaths, some other offworld type of Investiture or artifact... all are plausible, and many have been hinted at in the text. Back to the OP, while I agree it's certainly possible Amaram comes back again, I also agree it's unlikely for the reasons enumerated by @Use the Falchion. It's hard to see how he could be a more capable opponent than he already was, paired with Yelig-Nar... and he lost. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mdross81 Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: Curses! Reality once again forces me to revise my opinions. Thanks for pointing that out. There are, however, multiple other ways Gavilar might have been Invested when he died. A Radiant Bond we don't know about yet, Stormlight some other way, Voidlight somehow, Biochromatic Breaths, some other offworld type of Investiture or artifact... all are plausible, and many have been hinted at in the text. No problem. And I tend to agree that we haven’t seen the last of Gavilar. And I don’t mean just the prologue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Harrycrapper Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 7:16 AM, Use the Falchion said: Besides, we don't know what happens to a soul once Yelig-Nar's gem is eaten. Taken from the coppermind: Quote According to mythology, Yelig-nar supposedly consumes souls, but it is unknown what this means.[9] It is possible that it simply refers to the people he bonds with, but it is uncertain if lasting damage is done to their souls. It's possible Amaram was eaten by Yelig-nar, so I'd say if he was to come back in some capacity it would be through Yelig-nar. If Kaladin lives past book 5 into the back half, I could see him getting into another fight with Yelig-nar and he brings Amaram out to taunt him at some point or something like that. But otherwise, Amaram is Kaladin's villain/foil, not Dalinar's, wouldn't make sense to put him in the contest of champions. And like others have said, we've seen him defeated pretty handily, though it wasn't exactly a balanced fight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 5 hours ago, AquaRegia said: How did he have Voidlight? How did he have Anti-Light? How did he travel to and from Shadesmar? How did he know about other worlds and the larger Cosmere? Voidlight was braught over from Braize, from his conversation it sounds like it was drawn to him. Anti-light we know He did not neccesarily travel to Shadesmar. He was part of multiple Secret societies 5 hours ago, AquaRegia said: Thus he was a Radiant and capable of being Invested with Stormlight. We already know that that is insufficent to become a CS 3 hours ago, AquaRegia said: here are, however, multiple other ways Gavilar might have been Invested when he died. A Radiant Bond we don't know about yet, Stormlight some other way, Voidlight somehow, Biochromatic Breaths, some other offworld type of Investiture or artifact... all are plausible, and many have been hinted at in the text. None of those have enough investiture, with the possible exception of breath but even if Gavilar had some he did not have enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 11 minutes ago, Frustration said: None of those have enough investiture, with the possible exception of breath but even if Gavilar had some he did not have enough. Maybe it was…Cultivation Which would fall in line with a bunch of other things I believe she has been doing to keep Dalinar alive 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solant Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 Right now my money is on Nale, but it would be a bigger stranger twist if it was Nohadon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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