How many ascensions were there?

[+Oltux72]

We know the last two. Vin and before her Rashek. But is that the whole story? I kind of doubt it, because we still have to explain why Feruchemy was concentrated on the Terris people. It seems to me it is because there was at least a third ascension before Rashek. And the well happenig to be located where it was located made it likely that it happened to someone Terris, who made Terris people feruchemists and created the Worldsingers.

But that raises a question. That would create at least one Sliver. Where is his or her Shadow?

[Halyo_Alex]

20 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

We know the last two. Vin and before her Rashek. But is that the whole story? I kind of doubt it, because we still have to explain why Feruchemy was concentrated on the Terris people. It seems to me it is because there was at least a third ascension before Rashek. And the well happenig to be located where it was located made it likely that it happened to someone Terris, who made Terris people feruchemists and created the Worldsingers.

Yeah, I think we could see something someday (perhaps a novella) of at least "classical Scadrial" (pre Rashek-ascension), whether or not there was another ascension prior to the world being that way.

20 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

But that raises a question. That would create at least one Sliver. Where is his or her Shadow?

Didn't the Lord Ruler choose to fade away after he was killed? I imagine they did the same, perhaps after seeing the world Rashek created, overcome with despair and unable to affect the world in a meaningful amount.

[Eternal Khol]

Someone once asked if there were a lot of HoA who Ascended, other than the ones we saw in the books

Brandons response was "i wouldnt say so"

so that at least confirms that there were other individuals who ascended. Just not many of them.
 

Thats the closest WoB ive seen to actually stating that there were others who Ascended.

 

And, as to why we havent seem them. Maybe they just arent relevant to the story. Or maybe theyre living their life, out of the spotlight, Watching the game, not playing it. Or maybe they did as the Lord Ruler did and chose to move on.

[Kingsdaughter613]

I asked Brandon how many ‘HoA’ there had been and received a RAFO.

[+Oltux72]

5 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I asked Brandon how many ‘HoA’ there had been and received a RAFO.

I think you raised a point inadvertedly. Why do we assume that always a single person waded into the Well of Ascension? What would happen if a group did it?

[Weltall]

I wonder if that's even possible, whether because Leras did something to make it only work for one person at a time or because of Cosmere metaphysics. Brandon RAFO'd the question of what would happen if two people simultaneously grabbed for a Shard so we don't know whether or not that's possible (I'd expect that what's true for Ascension via a Shard applies similarly to Ascension via a large chunk of its power) but the way that the Well was set up was intended for one person to find and use the power so I imagine that having a whole group of people trying to enter the Well at once could do some funky things vis a vis who actually gets to call the shots. That seems like a complication that Leras might not want to have dealt with. It also sounds from its description like the pool isn't that large, so whether multiple people can fit in that physical space at once is uncertain.

It is however an interesting question and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if there were multiple people who Ascended using the well before Alendi went looking for it. As noted, the Terris people had feruchemy beforehand and we still don't know how they came to be the people to express the power, though Brandon says the seeds of it are latent in every Scadrian. Also, since the Well refills every 1024 years and we have a tentative timespan of something like ten thousand years from the Shattering to the present (a number Brandon echoed in the context of how old Scadrial is) that leaves time for a whole bunch of cycles depending on how long after the Shattering the planet was actually created and populated.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Weltall

[mathiau]

I doubt this idea will go very far but... Senna?

[ftl]

Ooh, I really like that as an explanation of why Terris had all the Feruchemists. Previous HoA before Rashek was Terris, did a decent job keeping the world reasonable, but gave his people a bit of an inherited boost.

[Honorless]

Two WoBs regarding the no. of Ascendants:

Quote

defiantburrito

The Hero of Ages prophecy: For a while it seemed to me that the prophecy was entirely bogus (invented by Ruin as a lure), but it ended up coming true! So my question is, where did the prophecy actually come from? Was it Atium in some form, or something else entirely?

Brandon Sanderson

The religions of Scadrial had a lot of ups and downs. First, you have Ruin and Preservation working together as two gods. Then you have the schism between them, and Preservation betraying Ruin, with Preservation adapting the religion to his own needs and trying to hide in it practices that will keep Ruin imprisoned as long as possible, and then give a chance to defeat him when he escapes. (As Preservation assumes he'll be dead by then.) Finally, you have Ruin corrupting the religions with his influence, trying to figure out what he can twist to his own needs--while missing the hidden layers that Preservation left.

Phantine

Were there a lot of Hero of Ages who ascended beyond the ones we directly saw in the books?

Brandon Sanderson

I wouldn't say so.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 6, 2015)

Quote

Kaimipono

What was Vin supposed to do at the end of Well of Ascension? How exactly did not-using the power, end up releasing Ruin? I still don't get how that all worked. Can you explain it?

Brandon Sanderson

What was she supposed to do? Well, this is difficult to answer, since the prophecies have been changed and shifted so much. Originally, the prophesies intended for a person to go take the power every thousand years and become a protector of mankind for a period of time. Someone to keep an eye on Ruin in Preservation's absence and watch over the world as he would have done. Imagine an avatar who arrives every thousand years and lives for their lifetime blessing the people with the power of Preservation, renewing Ruin's prison, and generally being a force for protection. (Note that Ruin wouldn't have gotten out if the prison wasn't renewed, he'd simply have been able to touch the world a little bit more.) Obviously, it changed a LOT during the years that Ruin was playing with things.

What should she have done? Well, Ruin's release was inevitable. Even if she hadn't let him go, the world would have 'wound down' eventually. The ashfalls would have grown worse over the centuries, and the next buildup of the Well might not have come in time for them to do anything. Or, perhaps, mankind would have found a way to adapt. But Ruin was going to get himself out eventually, so the choice Vin made was all right. There weren't really any good choices at this point. She could have decided to take the power and become a 'good' Lord Ruler, trying to keep the world from falling apart. Of course, she would have had to make herself immortal with Hemalurgy to make that work right. And since she was already tainted, chances are good she wouldn't have ended up any better than the Lord Ruler himself.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

Nothing more definitive, I don't think, but they do seem to indicate prev Ascendant(s) before Rashek.

As for the origins of Feruchemy

Quote

teknopathetic

I have a Reddit PM WOB that says the Terris were given Feruchemy as a gift, and that Brandon may get into how that occurred at some point.

Brandon Sanderson

It was more of a gift than an accident, but I do plan to someday dig into it more.

General Reddit 2018 (April 30, 2018)

that's the only thing we have on it, afaik

[Kingsdaughter613]

On 9/8/2021 at 8:56 AM, Honorless said:

Two WoBs regarding the no. of Ascendants:

Nothing more definitive, I don't think, but they do seem to indicate prev Ascendant(s) before Rashek.

As for the origins of Feruchemy

that's the only thing we have on it, afaik

One more WoB, where he RAFOd the number. It was in my WoA Leatherbound. 

[Honorless]

I found this in the Arcanum Unbounded:

Quote

Periodically throughout Scadrial’s history, a man or woman gained access to vast amounts of power, with incredible effects. The most obvious evidence of this is the fact that the star charts Guyn has so kindly provided list two orbits for Scadrial. The planet was literally moved at various points by individuals wielding immense amounts of Investiture.

Also hinting at multiple Ascensions, beyond just Alendi/Rashek and Vin

Edited September 27, 2021 by Honorless

[XaviGzz]

On 9/27/2021 at 7:31 AM, Honorless said:

I found this in the Arcanum Unbounded:

Also hinting at multiple Ascensions, beyond just Alendi/Rashek and Vin

I wouldn't say this points to múltiple Ascensions before Rashek. The quote mentions 2 orbits, which is the original orbit (pre-Raskek and the one Sazed returned the planet to), and the orbit Rashek moved it to.

[Honorless]

47 minutes ago, XaviGzz said:

I wouldn't say this points to múltiple Ascensions before Rashek. The quote mentions 2 orbits, which is the original orbit (pre-Raskek and the one Sazed returned the planet to), and the orbit Rashek moved it to.

I meant the phrasing itself: "Periodically throughout Scadrial’s history, a man or woman gained access to vast amounts of power, with incredible effects. The most obvious evidence..." seemed to imply Ascensions aside from the ones which had massive effects