Lesser spren

Shinovar knows the Listner method of growing crops

11 posts in this topic

It's no secret that the shin do not freely give information to outsiders. They won't even show the fields to them, as they are considered holy land. The question is then presented as to why farmland is considered holy? If the shin were to value farmers so much, going so far as to giving them many servants and plenty of fancy appearell, then there must not be that many of them, after all if there were many farmers then a land owner, or at least head farmer would be needed to coordinate them. The only other possibility one could think of is a head farmer with plenty of farm hands, a system that is not apparent to us in our interactions with the Shin. Thus that leaves us with a single farmer, or a group of farmers all working there own land held in relatively esteem. And so, due the large amount of reasources we see dedicated to them, we must assume that the number of farmers in Shinovar is limited in some fashion, if it wasn't, everybody would choose to be a farmer. 

 

From this supposition we can glean two pieces of information:

 1. That farmers must be able to produce a vast amount of grain per farmer to feed all of shinovar

2. That some skill is needed to produce such vast quantities as it would fulfill the requirement that limits the amount of farmers, and explain why the shin do not want outsiders seeing the farmers working their fields

 

If the shinovar farmers knew how to grow plants like the Listeners did it would certainly fit with all the previously stated information and would explain why exactly farmers are considered "Holy" as they would technicly be using an invested art dervived of cultivation the shard most commonly associated with western roshar, as evidenced by the inordinant ammount of life spren present when using the rhythms to grow crops.

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This is possible, though I always thought the Shin were still following parts of old Vorinism where farmers were valued highest, craftsmen next, and warriors last. Modern Vorinism puts warriors first and the other two in their respective order after. We also see that with the Horn Eaters and the special emphasis they put on birth order. It could be a combination of the two; the farmers are highly valued for religious and practical reasons. They could be the few people who have the ability to sing/hum the proper Rhythms, not everyone can do that much like not everyone can play instruments or sing. 

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I doubt this is the case, because spren seem to avoid Shinovar. Lifespren probably aren't attracted to grass and grapes the way they are to rockbuds.

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I believe this is plausible, but I think there are lots of farmers, they just have their own holy villages and don't interact with outsiders. I'm also not sure if it would work, since Shinovar's plants are not native to roshar, and gemhearts and rhythms are definitely tied to Roshar.

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On 7/3/2021 at 1:31 PM, Kings_way said:

I believe this is plausible, but I think there are lots of farmers, they just have their own holy villages and don't interact with outsiders. I'm also not sure if it would work, since Shinovar's plants are not native to roshar, and gemhearts and rhythms are definitely tied to Roshar.

Ryshadium bonded spren, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to assume that other off-world lifeforms would be affected by Roshar as well.

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3 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

Ryshadium bonded spren, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to assume that other off-world lifeforms would be affected by Roshar as well.

Good point. It does seem like the ryshadium have spread out into the rest as Roshar, and Shin plants mostly stay in Shinovar, which has a very different climate to the rest of Roshar. Aside from evolution, it seems unlikely to me that the Shin would learn rhythms, considering how xenophobic they are.

Although I just realized that maybe they are just getting in tune with the rhythms of Roshar, and didn't learn from the listeners. The shin consider the stormlight to be holy, and it doesn't seem unrealistic for them to feel the rhythms in stormloght or lifelight and try them out.

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1 hour ago, Kings_way said:

Good point. It does seem like the ryshadium have spread out into the rest as Roshar, and Shin plants mostly stay in Shinovar, which has a very different climate to the rest of Roshar. Aside from evolution, it seems unlikely to me that the Shin would learn rhythms, considering how xenophobic they are.

Their societ has not been the same for over seven thousand years.

Even Navani go to the point she could hear pure Tones.

(Something I do want an explanation for Brandon) So I don't see why the Shin couldn't have done it.

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17 hours ago, Frustration said:

Their societ has not been the same for over seven thousand years.

Even Navani go to the point she could hear pure Tones.

(Something I do want an explanation for Brandon) So I don't see why the Shin couldn't have done it.

Additionally because of the Shin's isolative tendencies, if we assume they've had such tendencies from before the final desolation, it is plausisble that the Shin were largely unaffected by the loss of knowledge brought on by the desolation, and as such they could have knowledge that was shared to anicent humans by the dawnsingers when the two were allies in the land.

 

For further evidence in ROW Adolin said that they couldn't get grapes to grow out side of Shinovar. If the cause of that failure was not the lack of soil or shelter from the storms, it would indicate the Shin are doing something to help grow there crops.

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1 minute ago, Lesser spren said:

Additionally because of the Shin's isolative tendencies, if we assume they've had such tendencies from before the final desolation, it is plausisble that the Shin were largely unaffected by the loss of knowledge brought on by the desolation, and as such they could have knowledge that was shared to anicent humans by the dawnsingers when the two were allies in the land.

We know they had Radiants during the recreance

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Just now, Frustration said:

We know they had Radiants during the recreance

Yes but we do not know if that was the rule or the exception. They do appear to know the origins of humans on roshar better than most societies.

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I think the modern worship of soil and farming is a warped version of the Ashynites original edict to stay in Shinovar and not to go past the mountains. They were given Shinovar and that was where they were meant to stay per Stormfather in OB. Shinovar has earthlike dirt / soil etc. while the rest of Roshar's surface is more rocky due to erosion from Highstorms. Some of the early Humans invaded the rest of Roshar triggering the Desolations which were disastrous. 

This exact sequence of events has been forgotten, but the values remain:

1) Soil is great, don't go on the stones!! (Stemming from original Stay in Shinovar command and the bad things that happened when the early humans went on the stones)

2) The worst thing you can do is fight. (Stemming from what caused the desolations) 

3) The worst punishment, Truthless, is giving someone a weapon and commanding them to leave Shinovar and kill. (A micro version of what humans did to trigger Desolations)

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