Hoid origin theory—a bit wild, probably, but fun

[matt1.]

SPOILERS for MISTBORN: SECRET HISTORY and OATHBRINGER and a little bit WARBREAKER

Spoiler

 

In Secret History, I adored the scene with Hoid. Adored! But I was struck by his having “white” hair, so I tucked that info away I my brain for later use.

A few weeks later I was reading Oathbringer. I’d casually wondered if Hoid was simply older in Secret History, but when he told Shallan that he was older than the heralds already (and he’s still got black hair), my theory was demolished. BUT THEN! When Highmarshal Azure’s hair turned progressively colourless while she was in Shadesmar, my whacky theory hat came back out again. 

Azure seems to me to be Vivenna. And even if she isn’t, she’s definitely from the world of Warbreaker. In Warbreaker, people’s hair colour changes. So ... is Hoid from the world of Warbreaker? Which actually fits back in with him being super old because people with a lot of Breaths can live an awfully long time. 

(This reminds me that since Warbreaker’s world doesn’t feature in Arcanum Unbounded, I don’t actually know what it’s called. But anyway ...)

That’s my big idea, but it also got me thinking: what allows people to change their hair colour in Warbreaker? I don’t know, but does this mean that Shadesmar leaches whatever it is from a person? Hair colour has something to do with emotion for sure, so does living in Shadesmar where emotion spren feed off emotion affect anything? 

 

Well, that’s my theoretical ramblings. I’d absolutely love to hear your thoughts!

 

p.s. I’ve no clue if my idea is original. I thought about looking through the threads to see if anyone was already discussing it, but there’s SO many threads. Any tips for finding discussions quickly on the 17th shard?

Edited June 27, 2021 by matt1.
I remembered something I meant to include.

[Kingsdaughter613]

Hoid is from Yolen. And seeing as he changes his eye shape, hair color isn’t that big a deal.

[Ixthos]

Hi @matt1.  Nice theories, though Hoid is actually from Yolen and dyes his hair, though it wasn't originally white.

The reason the royal line on Nalthis can change their hair colour is because they descend from Returned, who can change their entire physical appearance. In theory, Vivenna could also learn to fully change her appearance, and there are hints of this when Azure's appearance slightly changes.

 

I recommend reading the coppermind pages for Hoid and Vivenna, though they do cover material from books you might not have read yet.

[matt1.]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Hoid is from Yolen. And seeing as he changes his eye shape, hair color isn’t that big a deal.

 

1 hour ago, Ixthos said:

Hi @matt1.  Nice theories, though Hoid is actually from Yolen and dyes his hair, though it wasn't originally white.

The reason the royal line on Nalthis can change their hair colour is because they descend from Returned, who can change their entire physical appearance. In theory, Vivenna could also learn to fully change her appearance, and there are hints of this when Azure's appearance slightly changes.

 

I recommend reading the coppermind pages for Hoid and Vivenna, though they do cover material from books you might not have read yet.

Thank you both for pointing that out. Can I ask how we know Hoid is from Yolen? In fact, there are lots of Cosmere facts that I don’t understand how we, the fans, know them. Like how do we know that Hoid was writing to Frost in WoK? And how do we know the names of more shards than Urcanum Unbounded names? Is this all WoB? Or have I just missed the necessary clues?

(I’ve read all published Cosmere novels except Dawnshard and RoW, and I’ve read everything in Arcanum Unbounded.)

[Ixthos]

Just now, matt1. said:

 

Thank you both for pointing that out. Can I ask how we know Hoid is from Yolen? In fact, there are lots of Cosmere facts that I don’t understand how we, the fans, know them. Like how do we know that Hoid was writing to Frost in WoK? And how do we know the names of more shards than Urcanum Unbounded names? Is this all WoB? Or have I just missed the necessary clues?

(I’ve read all published Cosmere novels except Dawnshard and RoW, and I’ve read everything in Arcanum Unbounded.)

A lot of it is from Brandon's signings and answering questions, yes, though the coppermind has a list of different sources. Most of what we know about Yolen comes from Brandon directly talking about it (most recorded at the arcanum website), as well as unreleased material like the unpublished and not canon Liar of Partinal, which is set on Yolen and is Hoid's origin story, though Brandon is planning on writing the canonical version in Dragonsteel, set on Yolen. The best places to check for more info probably are the coppermind and the arcanum website, though I do recommend you read Dawnshard and Row before diving too deeply, as they do have spoilers:

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Hoid (Hoid coppermind article)

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Unpublished_works (List of planned and unpublished books)

https://wob.coppermind.net/ (Arcanum website)

Good luck and have fun!

[matt1.]

17 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

A lot of it is from Brandon's signings and answering questions, yes, though the coppermind has a list of different sources. Most of what we know about Yolen comes from Brandon directly talking about it (most recorded at the arcanum website), as well as unreleased material like the unpublished and not canon Liar of Partinal, which is set on Yolen and is Hoid's origin story, though Brandon is planning on writing the canonical version in Dragonsteel, set on Yolen. The best places to check for more info probably are the coppermind and the arcanum website, though I do recommend you read Dawnshard and Row before diving too deeply, as they do have spoilers:

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Hoid (Hoid coppermind article)

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Unpublished_works (List of planned and unpublished books)

https://wob.coppermind.net/ (Arcanum website)

Good luck and have fun!

This is a fantastic bunch of resources. Thanks a ton! I plan to read Dawnshard and RoW over the summer. So, maybe in a month or two I'll plunge into all this stuff. I have been tiptoeing around on the coppermind a little, but I need to get those two under my belt.