Magic System by World

[apepi]

I had this question(maybe a theory?) That...is are the magic systems based on the world a shard is on and not the shard itself? Like Scadrial is metallic arts, and it has nothing to do with Preservation or Ruin. While those can change the system some after they invest in it and flavor it their own way(Mistborn/Herm/etc), it would always going to be associated with metals. Nalthis would be associated with colors, Roshar soulcasting(?), Sel Patterns(not 100%, trying to find a connection here), and etc.

Though the evidence is a little touch and go, it could explain why Preservation and Ruin both use metals, Why Honor and Cultivation both use surgebinding(or maybe Rhythms?). There is a small amount of evidence of this being why Trell and Odium exist, though those are corrupted from someone else's investiture(they are red?). Like why aren't those shards using their 'own' powers, because the powers that they have when they invest on a planet is based on the planet.

The thing that probably most likely supports this is Automony, They have investiture in two locations and it isn't the same power, though they have their own flavor(small things making something magical?).

But we also somewhat know that every shard has their own god metal, so that means that they have potential to be metallic based, but don't focus on that. And Odium does have his own spren, so what if there could be Preservation spren as well? That all shard could have their own spren, if the invested on Roshar.

Though Scadrial was created by Preservation and Ruin, so I don't know why it is magic based what it is, maybe could do something with the star? This part somewhat escapes me, Scardial could have just defaulted to metals I guess, not sure about this one. This might have to do with the "Pure Tones" part of Brandon's system, perhaps not only shards have a tone, but planet can(but doesn't have to) have their own tones/magical systems, and shards can invest what is already there and make it their own, unless they just make their own planet or go to one that had nothing to build upon? We do know that Roshar had some stuff going before Honor/Cult got there.

Maybe it is a little of both, they could make their own magical systems, but it cost more investiture than just buying in what is already there? Like Preservation and Ruin could make their own magic system, but that is all they can do, while Automny can hop onto all these worlds where it is already set but be on multiple?

I feel like I have contradicted myself here and could prove/disapprove myself, but I wonder other people's thoughts on this. This post feels like a mess because it was mostly written at 2 am and I got another look at it this morning before I posted it.

Edited June 18, 2021 by apepi

[Frustration]

The planet does have a great deal to do with it.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Frustration

[MGershone]

1 hour ago, apepi said:

Sel Patterns

I would say Sel is probably language - all the magic we've seen is writing of some kind - but other than that this makes sense.

[Honorless]

Roshar is probably spren bonds

Sel is programming languages

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

No, it was intentional, because the magic system... the way I build the magic systems in the Cosmere is very deliberate and certain planets have certain themes for their magic. And Sel's magic systems are all basically computer programming languages and when I was designing that magic system, it had to be on Sel, it couldn't work on any of the other planets for various reason.

ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019)

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Honorless

[apepi]

2 hours ago, MGershone said:

I would say Sel is probably language - all the magic we've seen is writing of some kind - but other than that this makes sense.

 

21 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Roshar is probably spren bonds

Sel is programming languages

 

More or less, yes. Though not all of them do use a languages, like Chayshan more uses patterns. The way I see it, it is like an intellectual investiture. It gets into the nitty and gritty into specifics.

 

As for Roshar, it could be bonds, but we have seen other forms of bonds off of Roshar, so I am reluctant to just give the planet that.

This does make me consider the difference between the planets. Like could this be the reason why it is hard for a radiant to get off of Roshar?(with their spren) Like if you 'buy in' the local planets power system then it is hard to take it off world? And maybe this is why Sel is super located even on the certain places in the planet and Scadrial that power could be used anywhere easily.

I wonder if Nalthis is similar to Scadrial, Vasher did say the planet is young enough not to have fossils, perhaps this is a hint to Endowment creating the planet? And because they created it, their investiture is also easily able to get off planet(if you get through customs).

[+Bzhydack]

13 hours ago, apepi said:

I wonder if Nalthis is similar to Scadrial, Vasher did say the planet is young enough not to have fossils, perhaps this is a hint to Endowment creating the planet? And because they created it, their investiture is also easily able to get off planet(if you get through customs).

Vasher told this about Roshar too. I think more possible is that Adonalsium created planets of Cosmere (except Scadrial, is post-shattering, and Yolen, probably pre-Ado).

 

18 hours ago, apepi said:

But we also somewhat know that every shard has their own god metal, so that means that they have potential to be metallic based, but don't focus on that. And Odium does have his own spren, so what if there could be Preservation spren as well? That all shard could have their own spren, if the invested on Roshar.

Well, Devotion and Dominion also have some type of Spren, and Endovment has something simmilar (one-and-only-artificial Spren, Nightblood), so I dnt see the reason why Preservation or Ruin couldnt have their own Spren.

Also, when Trell comes to Scadrial, his(her?) Godmetal automaticly gets into Metalic Arts with hemalurgic properties. Probably if Preservation would go to Roshar, would develop Spren, and Mists would spread around.

[+Oltux72]

15 hours ago, apepi said:

I wonder if Nalthis is similar to Scadrial, Vasher did say the planet is young enough not to have fossils, perhaps this is a hint to Endowment creating the planet? And because they created it, their investiture is also easily able to get off planet(if you get through customs).

Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Until past the middle of the 20th century we thought that the oldest fossils date to the Cambrian 541 million years ago. In fact it is called proterozoic because they were unsure about traces of life. That is the first 88% of the age of Earth are without a major fossil record.

Now the Sun has lived about half its life and it will take the Earth with it. So if you pick a random terrestial planet orbiting a star roughly sun-like, your chances of it having much fossils of macroscopic life forms is about 50/50, if the Earth is typical.

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

Vasher told this about Roshar too. I think more possible is that Adonalsium created planets of Cosmere (except Scadrial, is post-shattering, and Yolen, probably pre-Ado).

Well, no. He told him that he doubted that Roshar has this kind of fossil. And indeed we have never seen anything resembling a shelled mollusc on Roshar. No snails (or slugs) on Roshar.

[+Bzhydack]

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, no. He told him that he doubted that Roshar has this kind of fossil. And indeed we have never seen anything resembling a shelled mollusc on Roshar. No snails (or slugs) on Roshar.

Santhid?

[+Oltux72]

7 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Santhid?

Possible, but they basically seem to be Greatshells.

[+Bzhydack]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Possible, but they basically seem to be Greatshells.

For me, they seem to be more like Squids, than Greatshells.

[+Oltux72]

17 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

For me, they seem to be more like Squids, than Greatshells.

1. Shell
2. Mandras
3. Eyes like a greatshell

Tentacles tell you very little. Barnacles are crustaceans.

[+Bzhydack]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

1. Shell
2. Mandras
3. Eyes like a greatshell

Tentacles tell you very little. Barnacles are crustaceans.

1. Shell doesnt tell you anything. Molluscs can have shells too, for example Nautilida - even looks lie Santhid:

2. Also, Spren can bond with other animals, not just Greatshells.

3. Simple Eyes have simmilar construction in many species.

[Jondesu]

On 6/19/2021 at 8:57 AM, Oltux72 said:

Well, no. He told him that he doubted that Roshar has this kind of fossil. And indeed we have never seen anything resembling a shelled mollusc on Roshar. No snails (or slugs) on Roshar.

I feel like he was specifically saying a fossil made in that way over that timeline though. Roshar simply isn’t as old as Yolen (the likely source of the fossil) or possibly other planets in the Cosmere, having been designed by Adolnasium. My guess is it’s about 15,000-20,000 years old. Old, but not old enough for those types of fossils to form.

[+Oltux72]

3 hours ago, Jondesu said:

I feel like he was specifically saying a fossil made in that way over that timeline though. Roshar simply isn’t as old as Yolen (the likely source of the fossil) or possibly other planets in the Cosmere, having been designed by Adolnasium. My guess is it’s about 15,000-20,000 years old. Old, but not old enough for those types of fossils to form.

Well, it has a lot of gemhearts to be found by mining. The problem with assuming a wholesale creation of the world, is that then you can say nothing about its geology. Leras and Ati created Scadrial with fossils. We know that because they have coal mines.

[Ixthos]

11 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, it has a lot of gemhearts to be found by mining. The problem with assuming a wholesale creation of the world, is that then you can say nothing about its geology. Leras and Ati created Scadrial with fossils. We know that because they have coal mines.

That's a good point. Still, it could be because there is some substance introduced into Scadrial's crust that is chemically similar to coal but which isn't coal as we know it, or, and I think this might be a fun idea, they made Scadrial as a normal planet is believed to be made, and then sped up time around it, possibly also affecting the star to make sure there was enough light falling on its surface, and allowed life to develop on it at an accelerated pace - so a localised speed bubble around the planet, as if any shards are time shards, it's Preservation and Ruin.