Waffles Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 Rather than choosing a child champion the same prophecies are fulfilled if Odium's champion kidnaps Gavinor, and attempts to execute him in the presence of people at Urithiru in an attempt to goad somebody who is not the champion prior to the fight to save him. This would violate the safe passage promise. and has some other advantages from the perspective of odium. 1) If the plan goes awry Odium's champion could still defeat Dalinar's champion because the plan doesnt require Dalinar being his own champion but it still might work if Dalinar is his own champion if somebody such as Kaladin is present (Possibly creating a Tien flashback moment) . Odium knows his predictive ability is not infallible so this is a far easier bet to hedge than say picking a child champion then having Szeth ram Nightblood into the kid's chest. 2) Instead of winning the contest it violates the terms, which is possibly a better outcome for Odium. 3) It fits with Taravangian's brutal, direct style 4) It could possibly lead to Dalinar becoming Odium's pet while still alive and because an oath is violated the stormfather possibly becomes a deadeye. 5) If odium loses in this case (Dalinar is champion and rescues Gavinor) it could still justify things like Dalinar permanently turning the stormfather into a sword by acting on his combat instincts instead of his judgement. 6) Narratively its more satisfying because it rubs personal salt in the wound and philosphy disagreement between Taravangian and Dalinar 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Waffles said: This would violate the safe passage promise. and has some other advantages from the perspective of odium. Why would this violate the Contract? who would be the Champion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Technovore Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said: Why would this violate the Contract? who would be the Champion Moash, ofc. Who else is the go-to guy for murdering vulnerable characters and being crem in general? The violation would be if someone other than Dal's Champion got goaded into attacking Odium's Champion to rescue Gavinor, or if Dal's Champion themselves did it but it wasn't the appointed time yet. It's a cruel thought. Edited June 14, 2021 by The Technovore 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 This seems…interesting and extremely anti-climactic Dalinar loses because somebody violates the Contract? I mean…why? How would Moash even get Gavilar, he’s not allowed in Urithiru until the tenth of Pallah I’d assume, and the Heir to the Alethkar throne is going to be secure, and Moash is stormin blind 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: This seems…interesting and extremely anti-climactic I mean I agree but I find it ironic that you are the one saying this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Frustration said: I mean I agree but I find it ironic that you are the one saying this. I have anticipated this My theory at least involved an actual duel, if however mismatched… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apepi Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 I mean...wouldn't a fight to the death inherently not go well for someone is a radiant? Life before death. You can not kill to protect kind of thing. It is the same reason Kaladin couldn't kill Elhokar. Like radiants may be able to kill, but it doesn't seem to work for premeditated deaths. The whole idea of a radiant choosing to join battle of champions makes zero chance to me. It is a huge plot hole to me. This is one reason that I think it should be Adolin who should be the champion, and not Dalinor or any other radiant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Ben Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, apepi said: I mean...wouldn't a fight to the death inherently not go well for someone is a radiant? Life before death. You can not kill to protect kind of thing. It is the same reason Kaladin couldn't kill Elhokar. Like radiants may be able to kill, but it doesn't seem to work for premeditated deaths. The whole idea of a radiant choosing to join battle of champions makes zero chance to me. It is a huge plot hole to me. This is one reason that I think it should be Adolin who should be the champion, and not Dalinor or any other radiant. That only really applies to windrunner, maybe edgedancers as well, most the other orders would have no issue killing to protect or killing in general actually 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 6 hours ago, apepi said: I mean...wouldn't a fight to the death inherently not go well for someone is a radiant? Life before death. You can not kill to protect kind of thing. It is the same reason Kaladin couldn't kill Elhokar. Like radiants may be able to kill, but it doesn't seem to work for premeditated deaths. The whole idea of a radiant choosing to join battle of champions makes zero chance to me. It is a huge plot hole to me. This is one reason that I think it should be Adolin who should be the champion, and not Dalinor or any other radiant. I don’t see any problem with a Windrunner having a duel to the death Both sides are willing, it is protecting and perfectly just to kill the enemy Kaladin couldn’t kill Elhokar because it wasn’t right, at least according to Syl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted June 15, 2021 Report Share Posted June 15, 2021 23 hours ago, apepi said: I mean...wouldn't a fight to the death inherently not go well for someone is a radiant? Life before death. You can not kill to protect kind of thing. It is the same reason Kaladin couldn't kill Elhokar. Like radiants may be able to kill, but it doesn't seem to work for premeditated deaths. The whole idea of a radiant choosing to join battle of champions makes zero chance to me. It is a huge plot hole to me. This is one reason that I think it should be Adolin who should be the champion, and not Dalinor or any other radiant. when has killing itself been off the table? the Radiant were literally made to kill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyJim Posted June 15, 2021 Report Share Posted June 15, 2021 Syl was pretty clear about this, killing for Windrunners is 100% okay as long as you're killing your enemies. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffles Posted June 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) Jasnah has literally killed people to make a point. Nale who is both a radiant and a herald, seems to have no problem killing children. Venli doomed an entire people to save her mother. Imo a radiant ending up in the champ battle would not be a problem. Though bondsmiths, heralds and unmade seem to outclass the regular radiants it seems like choosing something unkillable would be the easy choice. Of course, the possibility of Dalinar simply bringing 20 spheres loaded with antivoidlight to the duel might deter anything too spren-like. Imo, weaseling out of the battle is the only viable option for odium. Especially if the goal is to not fully destroy Dalinar. Edited June 16, 2021 by Waffles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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