Question--is there a WOB on surgebinder spren and singer forms?

[GroundPetrel]

I've been looking to see if there's a WOB on what would happen if a singer bonded a surgebinder spren and I'm having trouble finding an answer.  Does anybody know if we have an official word on this or if it's been RAFOed?  

[+asmodeus]

There is a wob about this, but it's not as direct as that, and piggybacks off of some in-world lore:

Quote

Questioner

Can Parshendi provide what the humans can provide, in terms of a mutualistic relationship with the spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

which is based on the listener Song of Spren, of which we have the 9th and 10th stanzas:

Quote

The spren betrayed us, it's often felt.
Our minds are too close to their realm
That gives us our forms, but more is then
Demanded by the smartest spren,
We can't provide what the humans lend,
Though broth are we, their meat is men.

But it is not impossible to blend
Their Surges to ours in the end.
It has been promised and it can come.
Or do we understand the sum?
We questioned not if they can have us then,
But if we dare to have them again.

 

Now... the interesting question is, why can't Singers bond truespren like Syl and get forms out of that? For example, why is Venli's radiant-bond to Timbre not replacing her form-bond to that spren that grant her envoyform? And I think that would be in the same vein as "Why do Fused kill the Singer and take over their bodies, rather than just giving them some form?" Truespren like Syl and Pattern are probably just too big and smart for the form-granting nahel bond, the more advanced Knight Radiant-like nahel bond is probably their equivalent of the same thing. But... that's just speculation, we don't actually know.

[GroundPetrel]

Thank you! 

[mathiau]

On 12/06/2021 at 5:21 AM, asmodeus said:

Now... the interesting question is, why can't Singers bond truespren like Syl and get forms out of that? For example, why is Venli's radiant-bond to Timbre not replacing her form-bond to that spren that grant her envoyform? And I think that would be in the same vein as "Why do Fused kill the Singer and take over their bodies, rather than just giving them some form?" Truespren like Syl and Pattern are probably just too big and smart for the form-granting nahel bond, the more advanced Knight Radiant-like nahel bond is probably their equivalent of the same thing. But... that's just speculation, we don't actually know.

Probably because for Sprens to be able to think straight they need to be bounded to someone who think straight and a Singer without a lesser spren doesn't think straight.

[+Bzhydack]

On 12.06.2021 at 5:21 AM, asmodeus said:

There is a wob about this, but it's not as direct as that, and piggybacks off of some in-world lore:

 

which is based on the listener Song of Spren, of which we have the 9th and 10th stanzas:

 

Now... the interesting question is, why can't Singers bond truespren like Syl and get forms out of that? For example, why is Venli's radiant-bond to Timbre not replacing her form-bond to that spren that grant her envoyform? And I think that would be in the same vein as "Why do Fused kill the Singer and take over their bodies, rather than just giving them some form?" Truespren like Syl and Pattern are probably just too big and smart for the form-granting nahel bond, the more advanced Knight Radiant-like nahel bond is probably their equivalent of the same thing. But... that's just speculation, we don't actually know.

I think IT can be something about "minds to close to Cognitive". Singer need Spren to have form, but form affects also how Singer thinks. Basicly Singer Lacks some Cognitive part, so Spren in Gemheart provides this lacking part. This mean Spren need to donate part of itself for Singer - for mindless Spren this would not have big effect, but for True Spren this can be very dramatic.

[Jondesu]

I’m personally of the hopeful opinion that bigger things are in store for Venli and the singers than she has now. Not just a Nahel Bond with a Regal form like she has now, or a mindless spren bond like the others will have, but some form of True Form that takes her further than they went in the past. 

[Halyo_Alex]

14 hours ago, Jondesu said:

I’m personally of the hopeful opinion that bigger things are in store for Venli and the singers than she has now. Not just a Nahel Bond with a Regal form like she has now, or a mindless spren bond like the others will have, but some form of True Form that takes her further than they went in the past. 

Wondering if that's what's gonna happen to her when Ba-Ado-Mishram gets released and Connects to all the Spren again.

...A whooole lotta things are gonna change very quickly, I feel. It might not look like it at first, to the humans, but... Yeah. It's gonna be a big day when that happens.

EDIT:

OK WAIT I JUST HAD AN IDEA

What if, post-BAM release, the 5th ideal for a Listener Radiant IS the "Radiantform" of that Order? The bond's depth becomes such that their spiritwebs are near-indistinguishable, granting them a form change like a normal lesser spren bond, but with all the perks of being a Radiant. Or at least something like that.

Wait, aren't the Fused kinda like that? It seems like at least some Brands of Fused have a "form" suited to their Surge, like the Pursuer and his abundance of hair as a clothing substitution. What if that's the bit that Odium co-opted when he gave the Fused Surges?

Edited July 5, 2021 by Halyo_Alex
New ideas, avoiding a double-post