Shardic Interference in a climactic event

[Havoc]

I was re-reading the section where Mr. T ascended to Odium, and something caught my attention.

Chapter 113 (Italics as per original text)

Taravangian cried out, his shoulder afire with pain, his body broken. His plans had been silly. How had he thought to outthink a god when stupid? He couldn’t do that when smart. No wonder he’d failed.

Did you fail?

The sword is here.

Odium is here.

Cold steel bit Taravangian’s skin as Szeth stabbed him right in the chest. At the same moment, Taravangian felt something pushing through his fear, his pain. An emotion he’d never thought to feel himself. Bravery.

Bravery surged through him, so powerfully he could not help but move. It was the dying courage of a man on the front lines charging an enemy army. The glory of a woman fighting for her child. The feeling of an old man on his last day of life stepping into darkness.

Bravery.

The Physical Realm faded as Odium pulled Taravangian into the place between worlds. Taravangian’s body was not as weak here. This form was a manifestation of his mind and soul. And those were strong.

That sounds to me as though Taravangian was losing hope, and some external force helped tilt the scales in his favor. And what external force was that? Bravery, otherwise known as Valor!

What do we know about Valor?

Sazed to Hoid - Epigraph to Chapter 25

I do think that Valor is reasonable, and suggest you approach her again. It has been too long, in her estimation, since your last conversation.

We know that Hoid hated Rayse and was looking for a way to bring him down. Perhaps he did take Sazed's advice and approach Valor again.

If Valor did indeed affect the situation here, that explains so much:

• Why did Brandon feel the need to give us 4 new Shard names? So that he could hide the foreshadowing for Valor.
• What exactly was the deal with Hoid's conversation with Todium in the Epilogue? Given his dealings with Valor, Hoid knew that Taravangium had Ascended to Odium. This conversation was his way of getting a feel for the newest Odium. The scene felt strange because Hoid does not want to let Taravangian know that he knows about the replacement, so he hid those relevant memories in the coin.
• Could one mortal really take down a Shard? Well yes, but it still seems odd that one person was able to out-plan a Shard. Okay, so maybe this was Cultivation's planning. But could a plan with so many moving pieces really work flawlessly without support? It's much easier if another Shard helps out at the pivotal moment.

[Honorless]

I assumed that was Cultivation influencing him, but yeah, this is plausible too. Do note though, that the particular emotions associated with a Shard's Intent aren't necessarily indicative of that Shard's presence. People can be honorable without honor, angry & spiteful without Odium, and so on.

[Havoc]

Sure, it's possible to be brave without any of Valor's influence, but I think this case is different. 

The way Brandon has written the scene makes it very likely that the bravery is an externally induced emotion, as though Taravangian were being rioted. Add to the that the fact that Hoid would definitely have contacted Valor after Sazed's suggestion, and the pieces start to line up. Reread the epilogue with the understanding that Hoid knows exactly what has happened to Odium, but he doesn't want to let Taravangian know that he knows, and it makes so much more sense. Both the actions that Hoid takes as well as his commentary to Design.

[Bejarden]

I was under the assumption that this was Mraize and his Aviar let him Riot

I think there are instances where he riots Shallan

Bit Valour is as good a guess any, due to its Intent

[+Child of Hodor]

2 hours ago, Havoc said:

I was re-reading the section where Mr. T ascended to Odium, and something caught my attention.

Chapter 113 (Italics as per original text)

Taravangian cried out, his shoulder afire with pain, his body broken. His plans had been silly. How had he thought to outthink a god when stupid? He couldn’t do that when smart. No wonder he’d failed.

Did you fail?

The sword is here.

Odium is here.

Cold steel bit Taravangian’s skin as Szeth stabbed him right in the chest. At the same moment, Taravangian felt something pushing through his fear, his pain. An emotion he’d never thought to feel himself. Bravery.

Bravery surged through him, so powerfully he could not help but move. It was the dying courage of a man on the front lines charging an enemy army. The glory of a woman fighting for her child. The feeling of an old man on his last day of life stepping into darkness.

Bravery.

The Physical Realm faded as Odium pulled Taravangian into the place between worlds. Taravangian’s body was not as weak here. This form was a manifestation of his mind and soul. And those were strong.

That sounds to me as though Taravangian was losing hope, and some external force helped tilt the scales in his favor. And what external force was that? Bravery, otherwise known as Valor!

 

It did stick out to me when rereading that passage. He describes Bravery like people do when they perceive the true nature of a Shard, giving examples of what it represents and the only Shard that fits is Valor. We've seen this three other times in the Cosmere that I can think of.

Dalinar viewing Odium in the spiritual realm:

It was hatred. A deep, pulsing hatred with a pressure to turn all things molten. It was the heat of a thousand suns, it was the bliss of every kiss, it was the lives of all men wrapped up in one, defined by everything they felt. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Odium

Mistborn Secret History:

Spoiler

The infinity of a note held perfectly, never wavering. The majesty of a painting, frozen and still, capturing a slice of life from a time gone by. It was the power of many, many moments compressed somehow into one. - https://coppermind.net/wiki/Preservation

This force was time infinite. It was the winds that weathered, the storms that broke, the timeless waves running slowly, slowly, slowly, to a stop as the sun and the planet cooled to nothing. It was the ultimate end and destiny of all things. And it was angry. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Ruin

 

I think it's a good guess that Taravangian was Connecting to or being influenced by Valor in this moment. One thing to keep in mind is that the Shard investiture permeates all of the Cosmere, so the Shard doesn't have to be actively doing anything for some of it to be nearby. 

Also, Taravangian was partially in Odium's special gold room in the Cognitive realm while at the same time being stabbed to death in the Physical realm by Szeth while encountering the Vessel of a Shard which is mostly in the Spiritual realm. I don't know what my point is , but maybe this weird situation makes it easier for Taravangian to Connect to a Shard that's not in the local system. 

Or maybe Nightblood has a lot of Valor in him and that's where Taravangian is sensing it from. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Child of Hodor

[Halyo_Alex]

11 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

One thing to keep in mind is that the Shard investiture permeates all of the Cosmere, so the Shard doesn't have to be actively doing anything for some of it to be nearby.

[snip]

Or maybe Nightblood has a lot of Valor in him and that's where Taravangian is sensing it from.

Or... Valorspren...?? I doubt that Roshar, a planetary system forged by Adonalsium himself, would be PURELY of Honor and Cultivation alone. There's gotta be at least a few sprinkles of other Intents in there, maybe just enough for some of the Spren to be a composite of H, C, and other Shards.

I mean, one of the Order's Spren are literally storming MISTSPREN. That raised a lot of red flags when I first heard the name in OB, and I wondered if they were connected (or Connected) to Ruin and Preservation, if only tangentially.

And with how we know many varieties of emotion-based spren exist (often attributed to Honor if i'm not mistaken) maybe one of those is a composite with Valor, and they were drawn to Taravangian's incredibly courageous act of trying to bring down a god, and gave him the strength to push through with his actions. Sort of like how Kal attracts Windspren, Shallan attracts Creationspren, etc. Problem with that relation is that it implies these mysterious Valor-composited Spren are the Platespren of one of the most Valorous Orders of KR, and that T was being an exemplary member of the Order in spite of not being bonded to the Radiant Spren of it.

[Honorless]

I think you got all the suspicious sentences, though I did find this small one:

Quote

Today, Taravangian was only passion. Hatred, fear, anger, shame, awe. Bravery.

Could be seen as a bit curious how the last one is a bit separated from the others. Likely just a narrative choice but just maybe not.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Honorless

[Havoc]

22 hours ago, Honorless said:

I think you got all the suspicious sentences, though I did find this small one:

Could be seen as a bit curious how the last one is a bit separated from the others. Likely just a narrative choice but just maybe not.

That's a great catch. This whole exercise reminds me of how Robert Jordan used to hide grey men while writing.

[Jondesu]

On 6/9/2021 at 1:58 AM, Havoc said:

That's a great catch. This whole exercise reminds me of how Robert Jordan used to hide grey men while writing.

Who? I didn’t see anyone suspicious. Definitely not that totally nondescript man walking in the hallway.