Investure Levels on Allomancy

[Phlipz1]

If this has been posted before i apologise

ive been looking through the mechanics of investure (specifically for allomancy) and i saw something that mentioned the term 'inate investure'. This leads me to believe that investure levels can be changed to a great degree (what are shards if not humans that have so high an investure level that they are no longer human?)

looking into nicrosil compounding (apologies if i keep misspelling that word) i realised that you can create (and if not create tap the spiritual realm far more than anyone else for a certain period of time like dalinar openning a perpendicularity, but inside you for a certain period of time) investure (burning metalminds releases 10x the attribute inside of it). if a mistborn (lerasium for the sake of argument) was a nircosil ferring before hand (or got a spike for f!nircosil), they can create a ridiculous amount of investure and store it

now the question. if one taps that investure, then burns a metal, are they  increasing their investure levels? and by extension, correct me if im wrong, but they are now way stronger than a normal person burning a metal because they have that much investure running through them? by extension again, did the origional mistborns have a way bigger amount of investure in them than the mistborns in the final empire, and hence why they are so much stronger?

sorry if these are obvious conclusions, my grasp of investure mechanics isnt as good as id like to believe

[ScadrianTank]

It's a bit difficult to answer that because we don't really know the full capabilities of F-nicrosil. The only thing that we saw it store in the books is the ability to use an Allomantic or a Feruchemical power. If you tap those - you will get stronger. But if you tapped other Investiture, like the Mist or Stormlight, you'll just hold them until it dissipates. 

Allomantic strength doesn't depend on your level of Investiture. Allomancers aren't Invested that much when not burning meals. 

 

[Phlipz1]

But from what we've seen a higher jnvesture level increases allomantic strength I thought? When marisi (spelling may be wrong) and wax held the bands of mourning and became lord ruler level allomancers, they began leaking mist-preservations gaseous form of investure. That leads me to believe that investure matters in allomantic strength

Not to mention that the lord ruler was ridiculously powerful, even for a lerasium mistborn. Which leads me to believe he had a higher investure level, due to holding the power at the WoA

[Eternal Khol]

29 minutes ago, Phlipz1 said:

Not to mention that the lord ruler was ridiculously powerful, even for a lerasium mistborn

 the Lord Ruler wasnt a Lerasium Mistborn. When he held the power and Ascended, he actually rewrote his Spiritweb to make himself a insanely poweful Allomancer.

[ScadrianTank]

8 hours ago, Phlipz1 said:

That leads me to believe that investure matters in allomantic strength

Allomantic strength determines how much Investiture you get by burning a metal. The more powerful you are, the more Investiture you get. When an Allomancer burns a (regular) metal, they get Preservation's Investiture with metal acting as a key or a filter to shape that Investiture to a magical effect. So when you burn iron, Preservations Investiture in a gaseous form passes through a metaphorical square hole and results in blue lines and a pulling power. When you burn steel, it goes through a rectangular hole, and you get blue lines and a pushing power. And so on. When Marisi and Wax leak the Mist, it's because they get too much of it from burning, and their body can't hold it all. 

If I understood you correctly and you say that just holding Investiture makes your Allomancy more powerful. If that was the case, just having Breath would make Allomancers stronger, which is not the case.

[Phlipz1]

I see. Then what is the effect of having higher investure in one's body than normal? If not a power boost then what?

[Frustration]

5 hours ago, Phlipz1 said:

I see. Then what is the effect of having higher investure in one's body than normal? If not a power boost then what?

Well the only real example of having higher than normal investiture is non-drabs on Nalthis.

Other than that they have fractions more investiture, and usually it's just to use someone else's investiture.

[Phlipz1]

sorry a significantly higher level of investure. as in f nircosil or BoM level. does that not have the effect of a power boost? when tapping the BoM investure again, Wax and Marisi became astronomically stronger

[Frustration]

10 minutes ago, Phlipz1 said:

sorry a significantly higher level of investure. as in f nircosil or BoM level. does that not have the effect of a power boost? when tapping the BoM investure again, Wax and Marisi became astronomically stronger

Nicrocil would just be additive, like any other trait I do believe ultimatly we won't know for about ten years.

[Phlipz1]

thats irritating. oh well. is it safe for me to assume that im correct for now?

[ScadrianTank]

8 hours ago, Phlipz1 said:

Then what is the effect of having higher investure in one's body than normal? If not a power boost then what?

Heightenings are what you get if you can hold the Investiture in without it dissipating. 

[Phlipz1]

off topic, if a radiant could hold stormlight like a perfect gemstone they'd get heightenings according to you?

what does happen when someone taps nircosil while burning then? nothing?

[ScadrianTank]

8 minutes ago, Phlipz1 said:

off topic, if a radiant could hold stormlight like a perfect gemstone they'd get heightenings according to you?

Yes. 

Quote

tskyeguye

From Rysn's observations in the epilogue, it seems like she has a lot of the same aspects of a Fifth Heightening/Returned at the least. Is this because her Dawnshard is particularly connected to Endowment or because the effects of a certain level of Investment result in similar effects?

Brandon Sanderson

The latter.

Skrimyt

Interesting. So are actively Surgebinding Radiants or metal-burning Allomancers just not Invested enough to gain those passive effects, or do they not experience perfect pitch/color/etc. because their Investiture is just not as tightly bound to their Spiritweb as Endowment's Breaths or a Dawnshard would be?

Brandon Sanderson

Be aware that the two groups you mention don't generally hold much Investiture themselves, at least not in large quantities over time. More in Surgebinding. Almost none in Allomancy.

But RAFO to specifics.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

10 minutes ago, Phlipz1 said:

what does happen when someone taps nircosil while burning then? nothing?

Let's say we have a Misting who taps the ability to use the same power he has. He would get stronger by tapping a medallion that grants his power. If he tapped a Metalmind that had Mist stored in it, he could power his ability with that Mist and get a more powerful effect than he would by burning his metal. Like Vin did in the end of the Final Empire. 

[Phlipz1]

and cause mist is preservations pure gaseous investure, the compounding or tapping of nicrosil while burning a metal would result in a more powerful effect, thus proving my hypothesis correct

or am i wrong and just sounded like an idiot there

[ScadrianTank]

1 minute ago, Phlipz1 said:

and cause mist is preservations pure gaseous investure, the compounding or tapping of nicrosil while burning a metal would result in a more powerful effect, thus proving my hypothesis correct

The difference is that you'd have to use that Investiture that you compounded as fuel for Allomancy, not just hold it. So it's not like it's giving a passive bonus to your Allomantic strength, but the result is effectively the same. 

[Phlipz1]

can you not use it as fuel? i know the metal essentially acts as a filter for preservations power but does that really matter? all one is doing is adding a bit of preservations power by oneself, not anything raddical

[ScadrianTank]

26 minutes ago, Phlipz1 said:

can you not use it as fuel? i know the metal essentially acts as a filter for preservations power but does that really matter? all one is doing is adding a bit of preservations power by oneself, not anything raddical

Yes, you can. It's just that you're saying that all you have to do is tap the metalmind, and I'm saying that you have to use what you tapped, not that using it is difficult or anything like that. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Phlipz1]

No worries. I misunderstood. So in conclusion the added investure if tapped does increase the strength? Must sound like a stuck record by now

[Zoey]

Truly creating Investiture is actually impossible, by Compounding you are just using the power of Preservation to store into a Metalmind, not actually creating it. So Compounding F-Nicrosil is just going to give you increased levels of Investiture pulled from Preservation. Which iirc wouldn't really help a Twinborn or Mistborn much, but would maybe help someone like Hoid who has access to multiple forms of Invested Art.