Thaidakar the Ghostblood

Harmony wants to Resurrect Vin

46 posts in this topic

okay so this might be a bit crazy but I think Sazed is going to resurrect vin (or try to) so I was reading row when I noticed in Saze's letter that he says that he needs something or someone that embodies both ruin and preservation to represent him the he says "a sword, say that can both protect and kill" I thought this could represent Nightblood but I remember in the well of ascension that Vin considered herself as a knife that can both protect and kill so what if Saze is referring to an adult vin being sent to Roshar since vin was seventeen in the well of ascension.

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You’re gonna want to put all this in spoiler tags. There’s a different thread for RoW that involves other Cosmere works.

To answer your question:

Spoiler

Sazed is referring to Wax. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

You’re gonna want to put all this in spoiler tags. There’s a different thread for RoW that involves other Cosmere works.

To answer your question:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sazed is referring to Wax. 

 

um no there is not another thread for that stuff and I put a spoiler tag on this so people come in at their own risk.

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Sazed did want to resurrect Vin but she chose to go into the Beyond. I don't think Sazed is the type to poke into cloning or anything like that and I don't think it's time yet for the Cosmere to get that sci-fi. I think he was just talking about getting a Champion of sorts, and from what we've seen, Wax could fill that role and is in the right place in the timeline.

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5 hours ago, Honorless said:

Sazed did want to resurrect Vin but she chose to go into the Beyond. I don't think Sazed is the type to poke into cloning or anything like that and I don't think it's time yet for the Cosmere to get that sci-fi. I think he was just talking about getting a Champion of sorts, and from what we've seen, Wax could fill that role and is in the right place in the timeline.

I believe Wax is actually referred to as "the sword" sometimes in W&W

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I feel like I can tell exactly who hasn't read Wax and Wayne by who makes theories about the 'sword' quote. Not trying to be mean, but it is fairly explicitly stated.

As for the general idea of it, I feel like Sazed isn't the kind to resurrect Vin without Elend. It would be kind of cool to have their Cognitive Shadows running around though. I'd like to see Elend discussing power and politics with Dalinar and Taravangian.

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13 hours ago, Frustration said:

sorry it was late for me where I was so I didn't see that. 

2 hours ago, jamesbondsmith said:

I feel like I can tell exactly who hasn't read Wax and Wayne by who makes theories about the 'sword' quote. Not trying to be mean, but it is fairly explicitly stated.

As for the general idea of it, I feel like Sazed isn't the kind to resurrect Vin without Elend. It would be kind of cool to have their Cognitive Shadows running around though. I'd like to see Elend discussing power and politics with Dalinar and Taravangian.

I would want to see that too, and I have not read era two so. that is why I think it is vin, but it could mean Wax since I know nothing about him.

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7 hours ago, MGershone said:

I believe Wax is actually referred to as "the sword" sometimes in W&W

So I just checked, and yup!

Harmony and Paalm also refer to him as His (Harmony's) "hands", calling the Kandra His eyes. TenSoon also refers to Wax as His "Ruin", and himself (and the Kandra) as His "Preservation".

Harmony is definitely looking for something with Wax.

Edited by Honorless
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2 minutes ago, Honorless said:

So I just checked, and yup!

Harmony and Paalm also refer to him as His (Harmony's) "hands", calling the Kandra His eyes. TenSoon also refers to Wax as His "Ruin", and himself (and the Kandra) as His "Preservation".

He refers as to himself as Harmonies Sword

to be exact

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Yup, though given that this era wasn't planned, I think Harmony isn't looking at Wax specifically, like Ruin & Preservation were with Vin, but the kind of people he could use as his agents, in general, kinda like the spren look for prospective Knights Radiant.

But Brandon has since expanded the Wax and Wayne era into a proper era 2, so it's difficult to predict whether Wax might prove central to this part of the conflict with Trell (the conflict with Trell is supposed to expand to and be central in era 3)

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1 hour ago, Honorless said:

So I just checked, and yup!

Harmony and Paalm also refer to him as His (Harmony's) "hands", calling the Kandra His eyes. TenSoon also refers to Wax as His "Ruin", and himself (and the Kandra) as His "Preservation".

Harmony is definitely looking for something with Wax.

So if Harmony is looking for a representative the represents both Ruin and Preservation and Wax is his Ruin while the Kandra are his Preservation, the next logical step would be to make Wax a Kandra. 

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2 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

So if Harmony is looking for a representative the represents both Ruin and Preservation and Wax is his Ruin while the Kandra are his Preservation, the next logical step would be to make Wax a Kandra. 

No I think Wax is both

An Allow of Ruin and Preservation that can both protect and kill

 

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15 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

No I think Wax is both

An Allow of Ruin and Preservation that can both protect and kill

 

I’m also pretty sure that’s exactly why the first Wax and Wayne book is called The Alloy of Law. 

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17 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

So if Harmony is looking for a representative the represents both Ruin and Preservation and Wax is his Ruin while the Kandra are his Preservation, the next logical step would be to make Wax a Kandra. 

*spits out tea* I think that's more TenSoon's worldview than Harmony's aim with Wax. Basically, Wax is supposed to be like "he Ruins to Preserve", I think

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12 minutes ago, Honorless said:

*spits out tea* I think that's more TenSoon's worldview than Harmony's aim with Wax. Basically, Wax is supposed to be like "he Ruins to Preserve", I think

Yes exactly, Kill to protect, Ruin to Preserve its all the same thing

 

13 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

I’m also pretty sure that’s exactly why the first Wax and Wayne book is called The Alloy of Law. 

Yep That’s the reason

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I think the resurrection of Vin would be quite possibly one of the worst ideas Sazed or Brandon has ever had.  It would completely undermine the scenes in both Hero of Ages and Secret History.  

Also.  Also.  Make Wax a kandra?  REMOVED BY MODERATOR. I have to go take a shower now.

Edited by LadyLameness
Removed for escalation of conversation
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Just now, Mistborn Surgebinder said:

think the resurrection of Vin would be quite possibly one of the worst ideas Sazed or Brandon has ever had.  It would completely undermine the scenes in both Hero of Ages and Secret History.  

That’s why it’s not going to happen and Brandon’s never thought of it

 

1 minute ago, Mistborn Surgebinder said:

Also.  Also.  Make Wax a kandra?  What is going on with the theorizing in this thread?  I have to go take a shower now.

Yo tone it down

 

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I was kind of being hyperbolic. It's entirely possible for Sazed to do that, but I don't actually think it's likely. Just thought it was an interesting possibility. I've never really been sure Wax is going to be super important to the grand scheme of the Cosmere, he wasn't even really in Brandon's original plan for the Mistborn books. I do agree Wax is likely a result of what Sazed meant in the letter about looking for a champion, but I also feel it isn't going to work out. 

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1 hour ago, Mistborn Surgebinder said:

I think the resurrection of Vin would be quite possibly one of the worst ideas Sazed or Brandon has ever had.  It would completely undermine the scenes in both Hero of Ages and Secret History.  

Well and break cannon.

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1 hour ago, Honorless said:

*spits out tea* I think that's more TenSoon's worldview than Harmony's aim with Wax. Basically, Wax is supposed to be like "he Ruins to Preserve", I think

This is the point of Wax's monologue to Steris in BoM with the cord & ball

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Wants to? probably

Trying to? not activly at least not likely

Capable of doing so? Not in the slightest.

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3 hours ago, Frustration said:

Wants to? probably

Trying to? not activly at least not likely

Capable of doing so? Not in the slightest.

Yes, and this is why:

In the Epilogue to MB1, the newly Ascended Sazed writes to Spook: I tried to bring them back, but apparently fixing the bodies doesn’t return the souls. I will get better at this with time, I expect. However, be assured that I have spoken with our friends, and they are quite happy where they are. They deserve a rest, I think.

As we have seen with other Cosmere mechanics, "Returning the souls" to their bodies after dying requires either immediate magical intervention (as with Gawx or Szeth), or some volition on the part of the longer-departed (Lightsong's memory of being offered the chance "to Return", or Wax's "red pill choice" after his Walk With God in the Temple of the Sovereign in BoM).

In MB: Secret History, Harmony offers Vin and Elend this choice, and they refuse it:

Quote

He looked to Vin and Elend and held out his hands, one toward each of them. “Thank you both for this new beginning. I have healed your bodies. You can return to them, if you wish.”

Vin looked to Elend. To Kelsier’s horror, he had begun to stretch out. He turned toward something Kelsier couldn’t see, something Beyond, and smiled, then stepped in that direction.

“I don’t think it works that way, Saze,” Vin said, then kissed him on the cheek. “Thank you.” She turned, took Elend’s hand, and began to stretch toward that unseen, distant point.

"That unseen, distant point" - they passed to the Beyond, which is a one-way trip past the Spiritual Realm, a Beyond to which Harmony's power cannot reach, and likely no Shard can.

When first asked about this sort of thing, back in 2008-09 after the first trilogy was published but before most of the rest of the Cosmere, Sanderson had left the door open a bit; but since then he's openly talked about how the Beyond and whatever the nature or existence of a "God Beyond" was meant to be firmly "off-screen" for the Cosmere and its denizens, including Shards who Ascended from being a denizen.

If he won't even go so far as to confirm or deny that the quiet voice, "so familar to him" that says I forgive you to Dalinar as he becomes Unity for the first time, was in fact him hearing Evi "live and direct" from Beyond versus a memory or echo of her...

Then obviously he would never haul a character back to life who has clearly passed Beyond (like Vin and Elend have), and not merely been hanging out or hiding in the Cognitive Realm for an extended period (Kelsier, maybe others) - because that character would then be living proof. "Obviously there IS an afterlife, because X made a round trip to there and lived again to tell about it!"

Quote

dIvorrap

Was really Evi the voice that Dalinar heard when he opened Honor's perpendicularity?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. (You knew it was coming.)

So here's the thing--I'm never going to confirm or deny anything from beyond the Spiritual Realm. Because it is unfair for me to do so. I believe there is an afterlife in our world, while others (quite rationally) conclude there is not.

The Cosmere has systems in place for ghosts and things to be real, yes, but I want it to always be possible for intelligent people to disagree about things like Evi's voice. Spiritual Connection creates visions in the Cosmere that are quite realistic (like all the ones Dalinar experienced.)

What Dalinar heard here could very rationally be a version of such a vision. That's what the Death Rattles are, for example.

Or, it could be his dead wife speaking to him from beyond the grave. Navani would say that's what it is; Jasnah would say it's the first. I try very hard (despite my personal biases) to not undercut the viewpoint of someone who doesn't believe in an afterlife. It is vital to me that the author not sweep in and say, "Yeah, it's cool some characters are Atheists at all who doesn't believe in an afterlife...but nudge nudge, we both know there is one."

The existence of an afterlife (not Cognitive Shadow style, but in the Beyond) in the cosmere is subject to your own personal interpretation. Everything that happens like this CAN be explained by Realmatic Theory, with very valid examples from the books.

General Reddit 2020 (June 5, 2020)

Actually, his even calling it a RAFO question ("read and find out") is not quite accurate - he's explicitly saying a reader would NEVER "find out" because he wants to leave it ambiguous. So, that makes it a RANFO? RADFY ("read and decide for yourself")?

Edited by robardin
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While I agree Vin won't be Harmonies sword, and also agree its Wax.

Won't Wax be seriously outmatched against practically anyone he might be put up against ? At least at present.

Wax vs awakener - awakener wins

Wax vs elantrian - elantrian wins

Wax vs radiant - radiant wins

Even a full mistborn would lose against each if the above most likely

I know Wax has access to by the bands of morning but if I recall they nearly ran out, and yes I know they can be replenished but doesn't seem like that would be as easy do as say. Given the conflicts on scandrial 

 

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2 hours ago, Quick Ben said:

While I agree Vin won't be Harmonies sword, and also agree its Wax.

Won't Wax be seriously outmatched against practically anyone he might be put up against ? At least at present.

Wax vs awakener - awakener wins

Wax vs elantrian - elantrian wins

Wax vs radiant - radiant wins

Even a full mistborn would lose against each if the above most likely

I know Wax has access to by the bands of morning but if I recall they nearly ran out, and yes I know they can be replenished but doesn't seem like that would be as easy do as say. Given the conflicts on scandrial 

 

Why would Wax lose against an Awakener?

Its extremely rare, I would think, to come against of an Awakener of 3rd heightening and a piece of cloth against Wax with a gun isn’t going to go well for the Awakener

It takes time for an Elantrian to draw an Aon and they won’t have that time

A full Mistborn can definitely beat most Knight Radient orders, Stormlight is not limitless

 

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