Kaladin promoted to Herald

[Zrogezrg]

So how about Ishar or Dalinar figure out that connecting some lucky individual to oathpact would fix some isues, and then they look at Kaladin and see Jezrien 2.0?

Any thoughts?

[Honorless]

If Dalinar does do that, I'll start rooting for Vyre to shank Dalinar next

[Mistborn Surgebinder]

11 minutes ago, Honorless said:

If Dalinar does do that, I'll start rooting for Vyre to shank Dalinar next

I'm curious, why?  I'm not saying I disagree, but I'd love to hear your explanation.

[Honorless]

3 minutes ago, Mistborn Surgebinder said:

I'm curious, why?  I'm not saying I disagree, but I'd love to hear your explanation.

What do you mean why? Because that would mean he's sending Kaladin to get tortured! Knowingly, because he knows what happened to the Heralds between Desolations! If he guilt-trips him "for the greater good" or... orders him...

I'd want Dalinar dead. Preferably in a drawn out fashion but I'll settle for a quick shanking.

[Mistborn Surgebinder]

1 minute ago, Honorless said:

What do you mean why? Because that would mean he's sending Kaladin to get tortured! Knowingly, because he knows what happened to the Heralds between Desolations! If he guilt-trips him "for the greater good" or... orders him...

I'd want Dalinar dead. Preferably in a drawn out fashion but I'll settle for a quick shanking.

I'm trying to remember.  Is that the only part of the oathpact?  Or are there other parts that are, for lack of a better term, broken?  Because now that I think about it more, the oathpact seems like an awful idea, and I'm not sure why anyone would agree to it, much less 10 people.  Unless they were drunk at the time.

And you people now have me picturing a scene where Dalinar and Ishar have their heads together, trying to figure out a way to fix the oathpact, and they're whispering quietly to each other, and suddenly they turn and look at Kaladin, and Kal just points to them and goes, "**** you," and Dalinar tries to appeal to Kaladin's honor, and he just replies "I'm going to find Moash."

[Honorless]

7 minutes ago, Mistborn Surgebinder said:

I'm trying to remember.  Is that the only part of the oathpact?  Or are there other parts that are, for lack of a better term, broken?  Because now that I think about it more, the oathpact seems like an awful idea, and I'm not sure why anyone would agree to it, much less 10 people.  Unless they were drunk at the time.

And you people now have me picturing a scene where Dalinar and Ishar have their heads together, trying to figure out a way to fix the oathpact, and they're whispering quietly to each other, and suddenly they turn and look at Kaladin, and Kal just points to them and goes, "**** you," and Dalinar tries to appeal to Kaladin's honor, and he just replies "I'm going to find Moash."

We don't know the exact terms of the Oathpact but we do have confirmation of this. It couldn't be that they just didn't think of the terms to their logical conclusion... that's just...

Anyway, thankfully we know that this idea wouldn't work anymore. As per Odium and Dalinar's meeting over the terms in RoW, the Oathpact is broken, the Fused can be reborn in the Everstorm.

[Zrogezrg]

My reasoning is that Ishar said that there is a way to "reset" the Oathpact. So how one does that? I would guess that maybe it requires adding one to remaining 9 heralds so that Lift can count them will all her fingers. So if that is true, then the question shifts to whom could we put in that role?

Jezrien could fly and stick things together, so can Kaladin. Jezrien was a patron of Windrunners, and now the closest thing to that is again Kal.   

Jezrien was suppost to be great leader, Herald of Kings. Kaladin can lead, he can inspire where there is little to none hope, so some could call him a great leader too.

So now, if Kal adopts Shalash then he will be prime candidate to burn on Braize for eternity to Protect all the crabs on Roshar. 

[The roamer]

Sorry to disagree with all of you but someone does not get promoted to a herald. the stormfather the closest thing to honor has seen the failure of men and how the oathpac t failed. this is why the storm father now wants to attack odium rather than supressing him this is also something in which hoid would want to do as weve seen in his letters to the shards. so kaladin would be a great herald but eventually all would fail.

[Waffles]

I think the back end of the series will be replacing the heralds by using Ishar's trick with transferring the oathpact bonds. If a bondsmith can transfer the oathpact to new L5 radiants then the oathpact can be restored.

Likely bond transfer is also one of several ways deadeyes can be restored.

afterthought: I'd like to speculate that not only Kaladin becomes a herald but also Lift since that would fulfill Cultivation's promise.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Waffles

[RedBlue]

20 hours ago, The roamer said:

Sorry to disagree with all of you but someone does not get promoted to a herald. the stormfather the closest thing to honor has seen the failure of men and how the oathpac t failed.

This is pretty much my thoughts. The Oathpact was never a good solution for anyone involved - the Heralds, the Fused, regular humans and singers, the Shards - and it’s clear now that it can’t work in the long term, or even the medium term. I would be shocked if any of the main characters decided to reinstate the Oathpact as it was originally.

I could see the characters working with the weakened Oathpact, making it into something new, maybe in an attempt to heal the Heralds. But that wouldn’t require a replacement Herald.

[Zrogezrg]

I have seen on the forum some speculation about Kaladin's 5th ideal, it was said that if you model 5th ideals by Nale's of becaming the law, then becaming "protection" would fit with becoming herald to protect Roshar by sealing some old spren on Braize.

On 26.05.2021 at 5:41 AM, The roamer said:

Sorry to disagree with all of you but someone does not get promoted to a herald. the stormfather the closest thing to honor has seen the failure of men and how the oathpac t failed.

I do not claim that oathpact is a geat idea, but that does not mean that it will not be consider as solution, because it works at sealing fused. Preservation also had to sacrifice much to imprison Ruin, but I guess it was worth to save Scandrial. 

Ishar wants to reset oathpact:

Quote

Come to me in Shinovar. I can reset the Oathpact, though I must be sane to do it. - Ishar

I think this along with Dalinar mission to visit him with Kal and knowing Ishar to be quite verse in manipulating Connection, there will be something interesting happening.

9 hours ago, RedBlue said:

I could see the characters working with the weakened Oathpact, making it into something new, maybe in an attempt to heal the Heralds. But that wouldn’t require a replacement Herald.

Because of strong connection of number 10 to whole Rosharian system, I would guess that you need 10 heralds for it to work good enough. Hence the idea of putting Kal in there.  As we miss herald connected to Windrunners.

Maybe not full fix, but major improvement to oathpact would be to swap Heralds on Braize before they brake. Not sure how to do that, but we know that not all Heralds are neccesary to keep desolation from occuring, but somehow, when one of them "breaks" then all return... so it seems that change in their number messes things.

The obvious solution is to swap then fast enough that the "fuse that counts # of heralds" doesn't notice.

[TheCruelSadist]

And now I point out that Kaladin's character arc so far is basically "I need to learn to be okay with people I care about dying."  A good mindset to have when you're immortal... and Brandon has outright stated that Kal is so close to Honor that it's almost unhealthy, which mirrors Jezrien (the other heralds refer to him as being the most honorable, multiple times, IIRC).

Edit: I didn't even remember the whole "Kal being the only one called Child of Tanavast" thing and Wit's apparent obsession with tailoring his character.  Then there's a TON of dialogue that could be seen as foreshadowing this choice (which I expect Kal to have, he wouldn't be forced to do it), such as: 

Quote

Syl was silent for a moment.  "Do you want to be a miracle?"

"No," Kaladin whispered.  "But for them, I will be."

Sheesh, lotta pollen in the air today, could someone hand me a tissue?

Edited June 2, 2021 by CruelSadist
forgot some stuff lol

[Ailvara]

If this happens, I believe they'll need to replace most of the Heralds, not only Jezrien. Let's be real, alive or not, they're not up to this job anymore. It ties to the WoB that the back 5 is supposed to be focused on the Heralds instead of Radiants. I can't imagine we'll swap the whole cast, especially with Renarin, Jasnah, and Lift as flashback characters.

Also, I think it'd be only a temporary measure to survive the years between the series halves. So nobody will consider this an ideal solution, but it'll be the only patch they'll have at hand after some massive defeat in book 5. And then in the back five, they'll come up with something more permanent.

[Master Silver]

Perhaps it is temporary, but with void light. New heralds might be able to go to Damnation to finish the fight. I mean every Fused killed with void light is one fewer fused to worry about. They aren't making more of them. At it is mostly because of the numbers game that the heralds lost. If the fused started with 1/10 the number. Maybe heralds can take care of the rest of them. And apparently if you die enough you crack.