Is Odium now corrupted?

[Chalke219]

Since Taravangian took up the power of Odium, do you think that Odium is now corrupted in some part with Honor? 

 

We are repeatedly told that Honor lives on in the hearts of men, men including Taravangian and Cultivation says she chose him because he could wield the power with honor

This could potentially be the plan all along, to link the shattered power of honor with the intact power of Odium 

Interested to hear your thoughts! 

 

 

[Mistborn Surgebinder]

I am extremely interested to see what others may have to say about this, because this is a fascinating thought.  I lean towards no, just because Rayse, the original vessel, by this logic, would have had the honor part of Adonalsium living in him when he took up Odium originally, and so if Odium could've been corrupted by that, I feel like it would have already.  But I'd love to hear other peoples' thoughts.

[Crucible of Shards]

If a person acts in accordance with a particular Shard’s intent, that in no way means they actually hold any investiture associated with that Shard. In order to corrupt Odium, they would theoretically have to be invested with another Shard’s investiture, so if Mr. T did corrupt Odium, it would be with Cultivation’s investiture, if any. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Crucible of Shards

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, Chalke219 said:

Since Taravangian took up the power of Odium, do you think that Odium is now corrupted in some part with Honor? 

 

We are repeatedly told that Honor lives on in the hearts of men, men including Taravangian and Cultivation says she chose him because he could wield the power with honor

This could potentially be the plan all along, to link the shattered power of honor with the intact power of Odium 

Interested to hear your thoughts! 

 

 

No, Corrupted investiture is investiture that has been co-opted by another shard, not a vessel having a different mind

[Honorless]

If Taravangian still has his Boon/Bane he might be, sort of, Corrupted... though the terminology might be different. This part, in particular, might suggest that he still has the Boon/Bane:

Quote

They thought him dead. He was free.…
Free to destroy! To burn! To wreak havoc and terror upon those who had doubted him!
No. No, free to plan. To devise a way to save the world from itself. He could see so far! See so much! He needed to think.
To burn!
No, to plot!
To … To …

Possibly Cultivation's plans run longer still or it might be a failsafe

[The Technovore]

I have a whole rant I may post later on, but my short answer is no, Odium's not corrupted, if anything, Odium is now less corrupted than ever, because Mr. T's entire philosophy, thought process, and being aligns almost perfectly with Odium's intent.

[Frustration]

8 minutes ago, The Technovore said:

I have a whole rant I may post later on, but my short answer is no, Odium's not corrupted, if anything, Odium is now less corrupted than ever, because Mr. T's entire philosophy, thought process, and being aligns almost perfectly with Odium's intent.

Well so did Rayse but look how that turned out.

[+Bliev]

1 hour ago, The Technovore said:

I have a whole rant I may post later on, but my short answer is no, Odium's not corrupted, if anything, Odium is now less corrupted than ever, because Mr. T's entire philosophy, thought process, and being aligns almost perfectly with Odium's intent.

To probe this a bit, I have two thoughts. (1) I see T as a terrifying wielder of Odium because of his intelligence and knowledge of politics, and the fact that his new ascendance means he has retained more of his personality than Rayse had after thousands of years, but not because his personality is more aligned with Odium's intent, at least not more so than Rayse. In fact, I wonder if T will run into the same issue that Rayse had in trying to control the power--he wanted to be strategic, the power wanted to be unleashed. Every time he tried to be cold and calculating, the power surged. If T is indeed a "perfect" vessel, then is it because his emotional range is artificially augmented by Cultivation's "boon/curse"? If so, does that mean his spirit web has been inculcated with Cultivation's power that could in some way alter the power he now holds. (2) Corrupted investiture is seen as red, which could mean that (Mistborn era 2 spoilers):

Spoiler

the red mist in Wax & Wayne is this corrupted Odium investiture, or that the piece of cultivation allows T to override Rayse's desire to stay "pure" and take up another floating shard in order to try and take on Harmony (he might think, strategically, that because Rayse was scared of Harmony, that Harmony is the most important shard to take on next). 

I don't know how corruption works with ascendance; we haven't seen that yet. So you may well be correct that it's not corrupted at all. But I do push back bit on the idea that T is a 'more purely aligned' Odium compared to Rayse. I don't see evidence of that yet. 

[apepi]

I don't think he is corrupted but... I do think he did lose a big part of his investiture. I think during the Ambition/Mercy/Odium pow wow he had a large piece of his investiture ripped off of him.

And I think he has Unmade things and that has used a good amount of his investiture as well.

Like look at all of his forces.... Like all of his physical ones(fused/regals?) are all corrupted. His unmade? Like half of them are corrupted.

I feel like the ambition/Mercy fight really messed him up, and he had to go somewhere to heal(or go caught by Honor/cultivation), and he settled in Roshar to heal. I feel like he did not start fighting honor until after a while after he invested there.

 

I would love to see how his regular uncorrupted forces actually would fight. I don't think we have any idea at all, have we actually seen his forces? Only thing I can think of is maybe Unmade? But I am not sure about that.

[exilarchy]

On 5/24/2021 at 5:41 PM, Bliev said:

To probe this a bit, I have two thoughts. (1) I see T as a terrifying wielder of Odium because of his intelligence and knowledge of politics, and the fact that his new ascendance means he has retained more of his personality than Rayse had after thousands of years, but not because his personality is more aligned with Odium's intent, at least not more so than Rayse. In fact, I wonder if T will run into the same issue that Rayse had in trying to control the power--he wanted to be strategic, the power wanted to be unleashed. Every time he tried to be cold and calculating, the power surged. If T is indeed a "perfect" vessel, then is it because his emotional range is artificially augmented by Cultivation's "boon/curse"? If so, does that mean his spirit web has been inculcated with Cultivation's power that could in some way alter the power he now holds.

Do we actually know how smart T was before he visited the Nightwatcher/Cultivation? We know that he didn't have a "diminished capacity" due to complications during his delivery, but I don't recall any section that says that his "natural" intelligence is anywhere close to the intelligence that he has on days where his boon makes him exceptionally smart and uncaring. That leaves us with two options:

1) T lost his boon when he took up the power of Odium. In this scenario, the new Odium doesn't have exceptional intelligence and knowledge of politics. He might be a bit smarter and a bit more politically savvy than the average person, but he almost certainly isn't that much more capable.

2) T kept his boon when he took up the power of Odium. I'm not exactly sure how this would work. The most likely option, IMHO, is that Taravangian stays as the version of himself that actually took up Odium's power. If this is the case, Odium's vessel would be exceptionally unintelligent (Taravangian's final day as a somewhat regular human was the least intelligent day that he ever had, IIRC). He probably wouldn't have matched Odium's intent close enough to have picked the power up if he was having a significantly more intelligent (and therefore less emotional) day. Lack of emotion is an essential aspect of T's intelligent days (it's probably just as accurate to say "Intelligence is an essential aspect of T's dispassionate days"), so I don't think he'd be able to continue having these days while he acts as Odium's vessel.

I can't really guess which one of these options is more likely to have happened. Still, I don't think it's the case that the version of T that is Odium's vessel has his exceptional intelligence.