Nifty Cultivation/Persephone connection I hadn't seen before

[+mdross81]

I've found a few pre-RoW threads comparing Cultivation to the Greek goddess Persephone.

It makes sense. In Greek mythology, one of her roles was as the goddess of spring. She became queen of the underworld after she was abducted by Hades (with her father Zeus's approval). Her return to the surface represents her role as the embodiment of spring. She was worshipped for being responsible for the growth of new vegetation.

What I didn't know, however, and what is cool now that we know the vessel's name (Koravellium Avast and/or Koravari) is that Kore and/or Kora were apparently alternative names/titles for Persephone.

You can read more here.

Given the Persephone reference, it seems pretty likely, then, that the myth we heard about back in TWoK about Parasaphi and Nadris was likely a reference to Cultivation.

Quote

"Parasaphi," Renarin said. "She's the one who searched out the seedstones."

"Yes," Navani replied. "In order to repopulate her fallen people, she climbed the peaks of Dara - the myth changes, listing different modern mountain ranges as the true peaks of Dara - to find stones touched by the Heralds themselves. She brought them to Nadris on his deathbed and harvested his seed to bring life to the stones. They hatched forth ten children, which she used to found a new nation. Marnah, I believe it was called."

"Origin of the Makabaki," Renarin said. "Mother told me that story when I was a child."

Bringing forth new life from the stone ground? Sounds pretty Cultivation-y.

Anyway, just wanted to share this little tidbit about Kora.

Edit: because I can't stop myself, here's another little thing I found - vari is a sanskrit word for rain or water; so if you take kora, which essentially means maiden, and vari - you get the rain/water maiden; which is fitting given that Nazh refers to Cultivation's vessel as "She Who Brings the Dews at Dawn"

Edited May 21, 2021 by mdross81

[Kingsdaughter613]

On 5/20/2021 at 5:31 PM, mdross81 said:

I've found a few pre-RoW threads comparing Cultivation to the Greek goddess Persephone.

It makes sense. In Greek mythology, one of her roles was as the goddess of spring. She became queen of the underworld after she was abducted by Hades (with her father Zeus's approval). Her return to the surface represents her role as the embodiment of spring. She was worshipped for being responsible for the growth of new vegetation.

What I didn't know, however, and what is cool now that we know the vessel's name (Koravellium Avast and/or Koravari) is that Kore and/or Kora were apparently alternative names/titles for Persephone.

You can read more here.

Given the Persephone reference, it seems pretty likely, then, that the myth we heard about back in TWoK about Parasaphi and Nadris was likely a reference to Cultivation.

Bringing forth new life from the stone ground? Sounds pretty Cultivation-y.

Anyway, just wanted to share this little tidbit about Kora.

Edit: because I can't stop myself, here's another little thing I found - vari is a sanskrit word for rain or water; so if you take kora, which essentially means maiden, and vari - you get the rain/water maiden; which is fitting given that Nazh refers to Cultivation's vessel as "She Who Brings the Dews at Dawn"

Probably also worth noting that Persephone was not nice, despite modern depictions. She was the Queen of Hades, with everything that implies.

[+mdross81]

The plot thickens. From further down the Wikipedia article:

Quote

The myth of a goddess being abducted and taken to the Underworld is probably Pre-Greek in origin. Samuel Noah Kramer, the renowned scholar of ancient Sumer, has posited that the Greek story of the abduction of Persephone may be derived from an ancient Sumerian story in which Ereshkigal, the ancient Sumerian goddess of the Underworld, is abducted by Kur, the primeval dragon of Sumerian mythology, and forced to become ruler of the Underworld against her own will.

A dragon eh? So I continued down the rabbit hole and read up on this Ereshkigal character and found a connection to another figure from mythology who is likely the namesake of an SA character. She was married to Nergal.

[crème de la crèmling]

This is a really cool association! It gives me so much to think about. Though the name "Parasaphi" evokes Persephone, the actual story of the seedstones reads to me as being similar to the Osiris resurrection myth. I believe I've seen Cultivation compared to the goddess Isis before, particularly when you think about Osiris, her husband, being murdered by a usurper and torn into pieces to be gathered up. That's spot on to Honor being splintered by Odium, isn't it? And the flooding of the Nile is comparable to the highstorm renewing Stormlight and distributing crem. I also notice seeds as being associated symbolically in the text with the surges of Progression and Transformation, too. (A seed to grow from, but also a "seed" to be inspired by.)

Cultivation seems to be pretty strongly associated with mythology concerning life, death, rebirth, the underworld, etc. I wonder if she's connected somehow to Braize, which is something of an in-universe underworld? Nothing grows there. Or is the closest analogue Shadesmar? Could she have thematic ability in that direction? Could that go some way to explaining Lift's unusual interactions with spren and the Cognitive Realm? I wonder if the nod to Persephone might have anything to do with the surge of Transportation, as well?

[+mdross81]

On 5/24/2021 at 1:49 PM, crème de la crèmling said:

Though the name "Parasaphi" evokes Persephone, the actual story of the seedstones reads to me as being similar to the Osiris resurrection myth. I believe I've seen Cultivation compared to the goddess Isis before, particularly when you think about Osiris, her husband, being murdered by a usurper and torn into pieces to be gathered up. That's spot on to Honor being splintered by Odium, isn't it? And the flooding of the Nile is comparable to the highstorm renewing Stormlight and distributing crem. 

You are definitely correct that there are elements of the Isis/Osirus myth going on with Cultivation and Honor too. And the further interesting thing about that is that Osiris' power and reputation (referred to as his "ba") was worshipped in its own right. Reminds me of how Odium says that Dalinar, through his bond with the Stormfather, holds the remnants of Honor's name and power.

Edit: Updated with new research

Hey @crème de la crèmling, just wanted to add in an additional Isis/Osiris connection I found.

I was reading through WoK 57 recently, where Hoid tells the story of Derethil and the Wandersail. Here's the bit that sent me down a rabbit hole:

Quote

When he showed the Uvara the dead body, they began to wail and weep. The entire island was cast into chaos, as the Uvara began to burn homes, riot, or fall to their knees in torment. Amazed and confused, Derethil and his men stormed the Uvara shipyards, where the Wandersail was being repaired. Their guide and caretaker joined them, and she begged to accompany them in their escape. So it was that Nafti joined the crew.

I started looking around to see if the name Nafti might crop up anywhere. Lo and behold, it's an alternative spelling sometimes used to refer to Nephthys. Who was Nephthys? She was Isis's sister, and together with Isis was responsible for protecting the mummified body of Osiris. Which is a pretty cool connection given that the Wandersail story is essentially an allegory about how Honor (who you astutely pointed out shares some similarities with Osiris) is dead but nobody knows it.

Nephthys and Isis were tied to funerary rites involving wailing and weeping (like the Uvara). They were also frequently depicted as guardians of the gateway entrances to temples, which were believed to be points of transition between the realms of the living and the dead. This too has echoes in the Wandersail story, because the Uvara are the "people of the Great Abyss." And it's implied in the story that Derethil either left Roshar or, at the very least, that the Uvara were not native to Roshar. Here's the relevant excerpt:

Quote

"The Wandersail ran aground and was nearly destroyed, but Derethil and most of his sailors survived. They found themselves on a ring of small islands surrounding an enormous whirlpool, where, it is said, the ocean drains. Derethil and his men were greeted by a strange people with long, limber bodies who wore robes of a single color and shells in their hair unlike any that grow back on Roshar.

 Sure makes it seem like that whirlpool might be a perpendicularity, no?

As for where Derethil might have gone or whom he encountered, I wasn't able to find any references in any other cosmere books to people wearing shells in their hair. But I'd put my money on Sel. Long, limber bodies wearing robes? Sounds like Elantrians maybe?

The other tidbit that makes me suspect it's Sel is Derethil's name itself. It's strikingly similar to Dereth, as in the founder of Shu-Dereth, the religion that's all about obedience and hierarchy and doing what you're supposed to. As you may recall, in the Wandersail story, the Uvara brutally slaughtered any of their people who made even a small mistake. When pressed as to why they did this, they replied "Our emperor will not suffer failure." Which, once I thought about it, reminded me of a scene from Elantris. This is from Ch. 60 when Hrathen realized that he'd actually met Dilaf before:

Quote

"I remember," Hrathen said, a dull chill coming over him. "You were the one that convinced me to leave. In my third month, you demanded that one of your monks use his magic and send you to Wyrn's palace. The monk complied, giving up his life to transport you a distance that you could have walked in fifteen minutes."

"Absolute obedience is required, Hrathen," Dilaf whispered. "Occasional tests and examples bring loyalty from the rest."

So, yeah, good call on the Isis/Osiris connection. Just look at this crazy path it led me down.

Anyway, thought you might appreciate the update.

Edited August 3, 2021 by mdross81
New research