Mistborn Surgebinder

Emperors soul sequel

51 posts in this topic

I know people have discussed a sequel to The Emperors Soul, because we love Shai and her magic, and the story was written really well.  I would also like a sequel, but I was thinking about this as I am currently relisitening to the story. I don't want another story about Shai. I think this one was perfect. And honestly, I don't know how much more growing she really has to do, and character growth is a vital part of making stories interesting. 

Far more fascinating to me would be a sequel about Gaotona. Here we have a man who was introduced to the concept of the 3 realms, and rejected it. He was introduced to this awesome magic, and fought it. He is now going to have to deal with this man he loved like a son but is just a reconstruction, and he and his faction have to pass off as real, and he's far more down to sel and realistic that his counterparts. 

I think reading about Gaotonas journey dealing with all this would be a far more fascinating read than anything about Shai. I'd be glad to have her as part of the story, but I really, really want the story of Gaotona going forward. 

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2 hours ago, Mistborn Surgebinder said:

 and character growth is a vital part of making stories interesting. 

No it isn't, it's A way, but not THE way.

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Posted (edited)

Yes which is why you can see, in the exact sentence you quoted, I said "A vital part," and not "THE vital part. I mean, way to pick apart a tiny grammatical thing, be wrong about it, and not engage with the actual topic. Well done. 10/10.

Edited by Mistborn Surgebinder
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30 minutes ago, Mistborn Surgebinder said:

Yes which is why you can see, in the exact sentence you quoted, I said "A vital part," and not "THE vital part. I mean, way to pick apart a tiny grammatical thing, be wrong about it, and not engage with the actual topic. Well done. 10/10.

Vital means neccesary which it isn't.

I would far rather see Shai than an ametuer forger.

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A

7 hours ago, Frustration said:

Vital means neccesary which it isn't.

I would far rather see Shai than an ametuer forger.

story without character growth is missing a key component

Without that growth there’s not a journey

Spoiler

Yes I know it isn’t SA but it’s still Brandon

 

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Just now, Bejardin1250 said:

A story without character growth is missing a key component

Without that growth there’s not a journey

  Reveal hidden contents

Yes I know it isn’t SA but it’s still Brandon

 

now that's just not true.

What's Batman's arc?

Or Supermans?

James bond?

Hoid?

There are dozens and they are among the most beloved and widely adored characters of all time.

Character is the hardest climax to make and the least fullfilling, and it's a one time thing, try rereading OB it's dry as sand.

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1 minute ago, Frustration said:

What's Batman's arc?

A man that his family dies and vows revenge or something like that

 

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Supermans

Alien that gets adopted and has to learn to use his powers to save his home

between beginning and end of story there is a growth of character

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Hoid

Would you be content if we never got Hoids backstory?

The only thing interesting about him is that he was at the Shattering 

Im waiting for his arc so I can see his journey

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

There are dozens and they are among the most beloved and widely adored characters of all time.

Character is the hardest climax to make and the least fullfilling, and it's a one time thing, try rereading OB it's dry as sand.

So in your dream book nobody changes nobody learns it’s just problem after problem with no meaning to their character?

OB was a big world builder that’s why it was dry, no action and not a lot of meaningful growth until the end

The character moments were very interesting to me and probably a lot of other people 

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Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

A man that his family dies and vows revenge or something like that

That's his backstory, that all happens in the first chapter or so, what's his arc?

4 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Alien that gets adopted and has to learn to use his powers to save his home

between beginning and end of story there is a growth of character

Like what?

4 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Would you be content if we never got Hoids backstory?

The only thing interesting about him is that he was at the Shattering 

Im waiting for his arc so I can see his journey

Yes.

No, he's just a fun character no change needed.

change would make him worse.

4 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

So in your dream book nobody changes nobody learns it’s just problem after problem with no meaning to their character?

I much prefer static characters yes.

Far more realistic, far more action, far more fun.

4 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

OB was a big world builder that’s why it was dry, no action and not a lot of meaningful growth until the end

The character moments were very interesting to me and probably a lot of other people 

Oh it's great the first time, once you reread it's bad.

Edited by Frustration
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3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

That's his backstory, that all happens in the first chapter or so, what's his arc?

It’s a comic for 10 year olds 

I’ve actually never seen them 

Also were not talking about arcs just growth

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Like what?

I’m assuming there’s a point to the comic/movie I’ve never watched other than “a guy went around and fought some other guy”

 

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I much prefer static characters yes.

 

What good book has no character arcs? The only thing I can think of is possibly LoTR which is bad and more of a history book

 

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Oh it's great the first time, once you reread it's bad.

Yeah 

I’ll just say we are looking for completely different things in books

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1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said:

It’s a comic for 10 year olds 

Those are, DARK for ten year olds.

like really, some DC is light and happy, but there are series and issues that no ten year olds should be reading.

3 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

I’m assuming there’s a point to the comic/movie I’ve never watched other than “a guy went around and fought some other guy”

Those are the best ones.

3 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

What good book has no character arcs? The only thing I can think of is possibly LoTR which is bad and more of a history book

Did you just-

@Channelknight Fadran Are you seeing this?

LoTR is by far and away the best Fantasy series out there, it's hard to read don't get me wrong, but we still have yet to reach Tolkien's level of mastery of the genre.

No worldbuilding has yet to match his, His story was so dominate people are still stealing it. *cough* Eragon *cough*

Name an actual arc in Edgedanncer.

 

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25 minutes ago, Frustration said:

LoTR is by far and away the best Fantasy series out there, it's hard to read don't get me wrong, but we still have yet to reach Tolkien's level of mastery of the genre.

 

Yes, we have far surpassed it

Tolkien was a bad author, using my first amendment rights here, he was bad

every 2 seconds another song, no fights and a lot of poetry and Frodo is bad Sam is bad Legolas and Gimli is ehh and Aragorn could have been done better

but enough of my LoTR rant

27 minutes ago, Frustration said:

No worldbuilding has yet to match his, His story was so dominate people are still stealing it. *cough* Eragon *cough*

 

Well Eragons more of a WoT knockoff and is better than LoTR an a unbiased level

 

28 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Name an actual arc in Edgedanncer.

 

We have Nale realizing he was wrong

Lift seeing the world growing and seeing people as more fuller she swears an Oath and stuff

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Yes, we have far surpassed it

No, we haven't

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Tolkien was a bad author, using my first amendment rights here, he was bad

He's better than any we've had since, using my first amandment right here, He Was The Best.

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

every 2 seconds another song, no fights and a lot of poetry and Frodo is bad Sam is bad Legolas and Gimli is ehh and Aragorn could have been done better

Good songs. Every. Single. One.

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Well Eragons more of a WoT knockoff and is better than LoTR an a unbiased level

That's not true,

Valinor being Valinar

Morgothal being Morgoth

That one Giant Dragon quite obviously being Ancalagon the Black

The Spine being the Misty Mountains

Isenstar being Isenguard.

That one tower being Orthanc

Ra'zac being standins for the Ringwraiths

The Grey Folk being the Vallar

The list goes on.

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

We have Nale realizing he was wrong

Did Nale actually change? Or was he the same person with different information?

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Lift seeing the world growing and seeing people as more fuller she swears an Oath and stuff

Same exact person, same personality, no change.

Edited by Frustration
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13 minutes ago, Frustration said:

No, we haven't

To be very contrarian...Yes We Have

 

14 minutes ago, Frustration said:

He's better than any we've had since, using my first amandment right here, He Was The Best.

21 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Brandon Is The Best

 

14 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Good songs. Every. Single. One.

Oh Storms they were horrible

I have a much larger rant that I won’t post yet 

 

14 minutes ago, Frustration said:

That's not true,

Valinor being Valinar

Morgothal being Morgoth

That one Giant Dragon quite obviously being Ancalagon the Black

The Spine being the Misty Mountains

Isenstar being Isenguard.

That one tower being Orthanc

Ra'zac being standins for the Ringwraiths

The Grey Folk being the Vallar

The list goes on.

Oh ok didn’t think about that

Just that the OG village Eragon is in is an exact copy of Rands village but whatever that’s a much more pedantic topic

15 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Did Nale actually change? Or was he the same person with different information?

Well that’s change 

 

16 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Same exact person, same personality, no change.

She was more understanding and didn’t feel as much animosity towards the Government 

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1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said:

To be very contrarian...Yes We Have

Brandon Is The Best

Brandon's writing style is more agreeable, but saying he's better is like saying a spotlight is brighter than the sun because it's all you can see.

4 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Well that’s change

Pharoh ants can make a nest between two peices of paper.

did you change gaining this information?

4 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

She was more understanding and didn’t feel as much animosity towards the Government 

Eh, I don't think animosity was ever felt.

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8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Brandon's writing style is more agreeable, but saying he's better is like saying a spotlight is brighter than the sun because it's all you can see.

I read LoTR last week I read Brandon a month or 2 ago

I know which is better

Just because something is the first of its kind doesn’t mean it’s the best

 

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Pharoh ants can make a nest between two peices of paper.

did you change gaining this information?

14 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

If this was a fundamental part of my life that I had spent 20 years researching I would say, yes it did

 

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Eh, I don't think animosity was ever felt.

She thought they were going to stormin’ eat her

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6 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

I read LoTR last week I read Brandon a month or 2 ago

I know which is better

Wait a few years and read it again.

Every time I've read it, and as I've grown older I've understood more, and my complete awe of Tolkien grows.

10 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Just because something is the first of its kind doesn’t mean it’s the best

No most deffinetly not, but aside from it being an older form of writing it holds up with the best of today.

Now I'll admit its heavy reading, it isn't something you sit down for in an afternoon, but it's worth it.

11 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

If this was a fundamental part of my life that I had spent 20 years researching I would say, yes it did

Nale is still the same person before and after, all that's changed is he picked a side.

12 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

She thought they were going to stormin’ eat her

Did she really?

Spoiler

She knew Nale was at Yeedaw, we know that's why she was there, why should we think that being afraid of being eaten was why she left?

 

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2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Wait a few years and read it again.

Every time I've read it, and as I've grown older I've understood more, and my complete awe of Tolkien grows.

16 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

This was not the first time I’ve read it I read it a few years ago to

 

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Nale is still the same person before and after, all that's changed is he picked a side.

17 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

He changed, change doesn’t need to be monumental it can be slight, he was resolved in his decision after Edgedancer

 

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Did she really?

She still never liked them

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Just now, Bejardin1250 said:

This was not the first time I’ve read it I read it a few years ago to

And the differnce?

Just now, Bejardin1250 said:

He changed, change doesn’t need to be monumental it can be slight, he was resolved in his decision after Edgedancer

That is enough to make it good?

Without that one disision the book would be bad?

Really?

1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said:

She still never liked them

Doesn't overly like them after either.

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

And the differnce?

Roughly the same

LoTR spoilers

still don’t understand why they gave the ring to a slightly overweight weakling halfling who’s never held a sword before

or why they didn’t take the stormin eagles to Mordor

Or why Gollum conveniently falls off a cliff to complete a quest

And how did Sauroman exactly just forget about the giant tree people who if they wanted to could reck Orthnak

And Sauramon is just randomly killed at the end 

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

That is enough to make it good?

Without that one disision the book would be bad?

Really?

It makes it complete

its like saying a book without its ending is good because the ending didn’t do anything except solve everything they were trying to do

Edited by Bejardin1250
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Just now, Bejardin1250 said:

still don’t understand why they gave the ring to a slightly overweight weakling halfling who’s never held a sword before

Because of two main reasons, Hobbits don't have as many weakness's to exploit

Elves/Men - pride

Dwarves - Greed

And Gandalf for his desire to do good.

and second off Sauron ignored Hobbits until the tail end of the Third age so he never put any thought into corrupting them when he made the rings.

3 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

or why they didn’t take the stormin eagles to Mordor

Because Eagles are insanely obvious, Sauron has a Pilatir  crows and Fellbeasts, if they used Eagles they would be trivially easy to find.

4 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

hy Gollum conveniently falls off a cliff to complete a quest

Evil defeats Evil for a philisophical and narrative reason.

for a logical one, you would be surprised how often dumb things have changed the course of history.

6 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

how did Sauroman exactly just forget about the giant tree people who if they wanted to could reck Orthnak

Tree people who haven't done anything in litterally thousands of years, and if Merry and Pippin hadn't been there wouldn't have done anything.

7 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Sauramon is just randomly killed at the end 

And?

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

It makes it complete

its like saying a book without its ending is good because the ending didn’t do anything except solve everything they were trying to do

It solved everything they were trying to do, probably a good ending, now setup and tension have a lot to do with it, but yes.

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Posted (edited)

Not to put on my non-existent mod hat or anything, and I’m as indifferent about LotR as the next guy, but last I checked this was a topic about Emperors Soul, and there likely are many LotR topics out there. :P

I’d probably be fine/prefer a spilt viewpoint. Like half the chapters being Shai and half being Gaotona.

Edited by Matrim's Dice
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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Because of two main reasons, Hobbits don't have as many weakness's to exploit

Elves/Men - pride

Dwarves - Greed

And Gandalf for his desire to do good.

And Hobbits don’t have pride? Or greed? They seem good to me

Thats pretty week

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Because Eagles are insanely obvious, Sauron has a Pilatir  crows and Fellbeasts, if they used Eagles they would be trivially easy to find

And sending practically unarmed halfling into the heart of enemy territory by themselves is better?

And the eagles end up coming anyway

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

And

Feels disappointing that the wizard that lives for thousands of years and is one of the most influential people in the world just dies, randomly for no reason

@Matrim's Dice nobody says anything in Elantris anyway this is good for the thread :P

Edited by Bejardin1250
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14 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

And Hobbits don’t have pride? Or greed? They seem good to me

Thats pretty week

Not that they don't but other races have more, name a hobbit with more pride than Boromir

More greed than Thorin,

or could actually use the ring in the same capacity Gandalf could.

16 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

And sending practically unarmed halfling into the heart of enemy territory by themselves is better?

And the eagles end up coming anyway

But with the distraction, not the ring.

Sauron has the strong force, fighting is feutile, the only way to actually defeat him by force would be to use the ring and that would only leave them with another Dark Lord.

If they had to fight their way through they had already lost.

18 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Feels disappointing that the wizard that lives for thousands of years and is one of the most influential people in the world just dies, randomly for no reason

He died to his own action, that wasn't no reason.

19 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Not to put on my non-existent mod hat or anything, and I’m as indifferent about LotR as the next guy, but last I checked this was a topic about Emperors Soul, and there likely are many LotR topics out there. :P

I’d probably be fine/prefer a spilt viewpoint. Like half the chapters being Shai and half being Gaotona.

It is devolving a little bit into that.

Not that I mind.

Gaotona was a bit of a non-character, he had one moment where he actually ment something, but eh, not enough to justify even a novella for him.

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I’ll admit to you @Frustrationon the LoTR stuff I still don’t like it but you seem to have delved into the lore much more than I have

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Gaotona was a bit of a non-character, he had one moment where he actually ment something, but eh, not enough to justify even a novella for him.

This is true

if we get a sequel it better be about Shai 

hopefully her tracking down Hoid then...something

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Just now, Bejardin1250 said:

This is true

if we get a sequel it better be about Shai 

hopefully her tracking down Hoid then...something

Yo, Shai vs Hoid, Forgey battle!

I must have this

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