Will Kaladin say the 5th ideal?

[Maddie The Survivor]

Alright, it’s about time we ask the question, and I couldn’t find any topics in this forum to I guess I’ll ask the question. Will Kaladin say the 5th ideal in Stormlight 5?

I personally think it’s very likely. I know he’s going to Shinovar (most likely with Szeth) (they are gonna get along great) so I don’t know if that will give an opportunity. I also think that the oath has someone to do with the bond. Like making really strong (like Syl being able to have a body?) 

So, what do you guys think?

[Frustration]

Yes, Chekhov's gun demands it.

[Bejarden]

I think he’s gonna die before he says it

maybe saving Adolin or something 

wait... maybe Moash will kill him just as he says the Oath making Moash Oath killer count at 3

(Elhokar Teft Kaladin)

[Frustration]

7 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

I think he’s gonna die before he says it

maybe saving Adolin or something 

wait... maybe Moash will kill him just as he says the Oath making Moash Oath killer count at 3

(Elhokar Teft Kaladin)

That would require Brandon to actually kill a main character before their arc ended, which I would love but it won't happen.

[Bejarden]

Just now, Frustration said:

That would require Brandon to actually kill a main character before their arc ended, which I would love but it won't happen.

First times do happen...sometimes 

but I agree Brandon likes his arcs to be finished nicely 

[Halyo_Alex]

This isn't exactly GRR Martin we're talking about, I think Kal is safe even for a good little while after the 5th ideal. Perhaps long enough to be a mentor figure to the main Windrunner in the back 5 before performing a heroic sacrifice for the benefit of many.

[Bejarden]

14 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

This isn't exactly GRR Martin we're talking about, I think Kal is safe even for a good little while after the 5th ideal. Perhaps long enough to be a mentor figure to the main Windrunner in the back 5 before performing a heroic sacrifice for the benefit of many.

Yeah but I really hate that

I want Kaladin gone from Roshar by the end of book 5 whether being a Worldhopper or dead I just want him gone

His plot is getting repetitive and especially after RoW I think his arc is very nearly finished

The last thing he can give me is a nice gut punch death at the end of KoW

This might come off as a little harsh but it’s my personal opinion

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Yeah but I really hate that

I want Kaladin gone from Roshar by the end of book 5 whether being a Worldhopper or dead I just want him gone

His plot is getting repetitive and especially after RoW I think his arc is very nearly finished

The last thing he can give me is a nice gut punch death at the end of KoW

This might come off as a little harsh but it’s my personal opinion

Bro why the Kal hate?

I can see wanting less plot armor, trust me I do, the amount Brandon's Characters have is unreal.

But why Kal specifically?

[Bejarden]

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Bro why the Kal hate?

I can see wanting less plot armor, trust me I do, the amount Brandon's Characters have is unreal.

But why Kal specifically?

It’s not Kal specifically He’s actually my favorite character, ever 

I also want Dalinar and Moash and probably 3/4 of Bridge 4 minus my boi The Lopen

Their arc is over, or at least will be over by next book (maybe not Dalinar for that...but I think he’ll lose the duel)

And to me the only thing sadder than a dead character is a live character that his arc is done but is life supported for no reason other than people like him

But again, my opinion 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Bejardin1250
Spelling

[Frustration]

5 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

It’s not Kal specifically He’s actually my favorite character, ever 

I also want Dalinar and Moash and probably 3/4 of Bridge 4 minus my boi The Lopen

Their arc is over, or at least will be over by next book (maybe not Dalinar for that...but I think he’ll lose the duel)

And to me the only thing sadder than a dead character is a live character that his arc is done but is life supported for no reason other than people like him

But again, my opinion 

I kind of get that, but I heavily oppose the idea that characters should die once their arc is over.

Characters should be in danger of death at any time, which also means they should never have a point that their death is certain. It ruins the tension in the narrative.

But that's my thoughts.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Frustration

[Bejarden]

Just now, Frustration said:

I kind of get that, but I heavily oppose the idea that characters should die once their arc is over.

Characters should be in danger of death at any time, which also means they should never have a point that their death us certain. It ruins the tension in the narrative.

But that's my thoughts.

Complete agree but SA is weird since back 1/2 is still considered the same series  So I’m afraid Kaladin will just be left alive and sidelined

if  it was the end of the series him dying would be a 50/50, I’m good either way i’m not opposed to the happily ever after

And in reference of characters dying before their time... 

I feel like an author would never do this because to build up a character just to kill him would feel like a waste to them, even if we, the reader, feels like it would put some real stakes into the series
But Brandon did kill Teft

[Andy92]

1 hour ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Complete agree but SA is weird since back 1/2 is still considered the same series  So I’m afraid Kaladin will just be left alive and sidelined

It’s gonna be about the same gap in time that Star Wars had between the Clone Wars and the climax of the Rebellion. Makes sense to have a few Obi-Wan and Yoda type characters still being around, just less active than they used to be. 

[Spectromixer]

I wonder who will be the first to say the 5th ideal on screen. Surely kaladin but he could switch it up. 

[RedBlue]

I don’t think we should assume that Kaladin’s arc will be over after he swears the 5th Oath.

RoW did a lot of groundwork for making Kaladin still be interesting if he steps back from the fighting. I realise that people’s mileage may vary on this, but I really hope Kaladin survives into the back 5 so that we get to see what he does with himself after he’s done with the traditional protag stuff.

[Argus the Awful]

13 hours ago, Spectromixer said:

I wonder who will be the first to say the 5th ideal on screen. Surely kaladin but he could switch it up. 

Jasnah is gonna be the first, and I think that Brandon would want to show this happening. Kaladin might also say the 5th, but everyone is expecting that to happen so be ready for plot twists!

[Born of The Storm]

 I for one was so excited for kaladin to swear the 4th ideal though I was hoping it would mentally heal him more.

I personally think it's very possible he will swear the 5th ideal in book 5.

[Zanarkand]

I'm going to go in a different direction here. I think Kaladin will become the new vessel for Honor. The obvious choice for vessel if you think the Honor shard will return is Dalinar, but I think there are enough subtle hints in the books so far to point to Kaladin being the one (child of Tanavast and whatnot.) It would be and interesting twist.

As to whether or not he pleads the fifth (ba-dum-chiii,) I think he will, kind of like a Goku going super-saiyan moment.

Here's how I see it going down: Dalinar loses the contest, becoming Odium's champion, and Kaladin has to fight him. Kaladin gets whooped by fused Dalinar until he says the fifth ideal, powers up, and manages to defeat him, mortally wounding him with anti-light. We get a very sad scene with Dalinar dieing, thanking Kaladin for releasing him from Odium's control, and Kaladin gets control of Dalanar's splinter of Honor. Kaladin is already bound to the second most powerful splinter of Honor (Syl,) and with the combined splinters there is enough power for Honor to be restored with Kaladin as the vessel.

[Quick Ben]

On 5/20/2021 at 5:21 PM, Zanarkand said:

I'm going to go in a different direction here. I think Kaladin will become the new vessel for Honor. The obvious choice for vessel if you think the Honor shard will return is Dalinar, but I think there are enough subtle hints in the books so far to point to Kaladin being the one (child of Tanavast and whatnot.) It would be and interesting twist.

As to whether or not he pleads the fifth (ba-dum-chiii,) I think he will, kind of like a Goku going super-saiyan moment.

Here's how I see it going down: Dalinar loses the contest, becoming Odium's champion, and Kaladin has to fight him. Kaladin gets whooped by fused Dalinar until he says the fifth ideal, powers up, and manages to defeat him, mortally wounding him with anti-light. We get a very sad scene with Dalinar dieing, thanking Kaladin for releasing him from Odium's control, and Kaladin gets control of Dalanar's splinter of Honor. Kaladin is already bound to the second most powerful splinter of Honor (Syl,) and with the combined splinters there is enough power for Honor to be restored with Kaladin as the vessel.

I don't see how Kaladin becoming Honours new Vessel would be a twist, dispite the popular narrative on the shard i think Kaladin becoming Honour is more likely then Dalinar and narratively within the books he is much closer to honour then Dalinar ever would be.

Although how you imagine it coming about could very well happen.

[Bejarden]

1 minute ago, Quick Ben said:

I don't see how Kaladin becoming Honours new Vessel would be a twist, dispite the popular narrative on the shard i think Kaladin becoming Honour is more likely then Dalinar and narratively within the books he is much closer to honour then Dalinar ever would be.

Although how you imagine it coming about could very well happen.

Yah I do see Kaladin as our most Honorable character 

Will he ascend though.... 

I don’t think just because you emulate the Shards Intent it will unSplinter it, nor just having 20% of Honors Investiture (I don’t know how much Stormfather is but I can’t imagine it’s more than 20%, and Syl describes herself as a tiny piece of Honor)

You would have to gather the pieces I would think, which could happen

And even if it was enough Honor would be vastly reduced in power compared to all other Shards

[Quick Ben]

15 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Yah I do see Kaladin as our most Honorable character 

Will he ascend though.... 

I don’t think just because you emulate the Shards Intent it will unSplinter it, nor just having 20% of Honors Investiture (I don’t know how much Stormfather is but I can’t imagine it’s more than 20%, and Syl describes herself as a tiny piece of Honor)

You would have to gather the pieces I would think, which could happen

And even if it was enough Honor would be vastly reduced in power compared to all other Shards

The difficulties in Kaladin ascending are the same as for Dalinar, and everyone assumes Dalinar will, when in essence there is no reason to be believe he will ascend over Kaladin.

The fleet story could of well foreshadowed Kaladin ascending, 

I was mainly just saying Kaladin ascending over Dalinar wouldnt be a twist as has been hinted at

[Bejarden]

12 hours ago, Quick Ben said:

was mainly just saying Kaladin ascending over Dalinar wouldnt be a twist as has been hinted at

Ok sure that’s true

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

what if Dalinar ascends to Honor and Odium essentially becoming Harmony except under the "I am Unity!" banner.

[MooseBehave]

I think he will, but the “why” is a bit of a stretch. This isn’t a fully formed idea, but more of a feeling based on a few questions from a re-read. Lmk what you think!

Other than just the many references to Kal being far stronger/more advanced/just different than other Windrunners (ie; diverting the highstorm, staying awake for no clearly-solved reason when the Tower was attacked), Kal’s arc feels like it’s leading toward something bigger than just “he gonna die”. I definitely don’t think he’ll be the new Honor though... I think Kaladin is going to become a Herald.

We know that the Fifth Ideal of the Skybreakers is the most difficult to attain and only has been achieved by the Herald who founded the order. Even Jasnah, who’s had her powers for years (possibly since right after Gavilar’s Feast) and is arguably the most advanced Radiant alive, is only on the 4th Ideal by RoW. What if the 5th Ideal of each Order is only attainable by one who is a Herald, or keeping more to my point, what if swearing the 5th Ideal makes one into a Herald? 

As of Oathbringer, Jezrien, the Herald associated with the Windrunners, is perma-dead. There’s a void there to be filled. I think Kal may get killed, yes, but he will swear the 5th right before, die super-Invested (as per his conversation with Zahel), and return as a Herald to help reforge an Oathpact. It probably won’t look like the old Oathpact, given anti-light as a possible solution to The Fused, but still. This would conclude his story in a way that would fit his arc. Kaladin survives... but this time, so does everyone he loves.

[Leuthie]

On 5/16/2021 at 9:25 AM, Bejardin1250 said:

Complete agree but SA is weird since back 1/2 is still considered the same series  So I’m afraid Kaladin will just be left alive and sidelined

I love seeing characters that have completed their narrative arcs continue to exist as side characters. It really needs to happen more often. Vasher, for instance.

Kaladin will say the 5th Oath. He will also go run a "veteran" rehabilitation center for Radiants and non-Radiants alike. The 5th Oath will make this form of protection an imperative for him and we'll see him in the back 5 only when such a location is required or as consultation for the new set of main characters.

He will NOT get the Luke Skywalker treatment (either the new Trilogy or the old EU). He will not be the continued savior of the story, nor will he be dragged back from some type of exile to die. He better not. He may get a sacrifice, but that better be a book 9 or book 10 save the world sacrifice.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Leuthie

[a Faceless Immortal]

16 hours ago, MooseBehave said:

As of Oathbringer, Jezrien, the Herald associated with the Windrunners, is perma-dead. There’s a void there to be filled. I think Kal may get killed, yes, but he will swear the 5th right before, die super-Invested (as per his conversation with Zahel), and return as a Herald to help reforge an Oathpact. It probably won’t look like the old Oathpact, given anti-light as a possible solution to The Fused, but still. This would conclude his story in a way that would fit his arc. Kaladin survives... but this time, so does everyone he loves.

I could totally get behind the idea of Kaladin saying the 5th oath, doing something super cool and saving a ton of people, dying in the process, but actually being so invested that he just ascends to herald/shard level, and then does some more saving of the world in a suitably awesome fashion.

However, I feel it does kind of contradict with his arc, especially since one of his big plot points was accepting his flaws and inability to protect everything, and so dying and/or gaining any crazy level powers could potentially feel way less satisfying than we think it would now because it undermines all of his character growth! Because, honestly, who wants to see Kal commit / attempt to commit suicide for a third time (Chasm, tower, now whatever sacrifice he makes), even if it is for a worthy reason and even if it does end up being not-perma-death suicide.

Honestly, I just want ma boy to be happy (maybe his 5th ideal can be 'I'll try smiling more' ?)

But also, I can't really bear the thought of Kal being in arc 2 and not being all active and heroic like, so I'm very confused...

Edited June 8, 2021 by a Faceless Immortal
Edited for clarity