Theory: Bands of Mourning are fueled by Mists

[therunner]

Hello, I am currently on my re-read of Mistborn and after finishing HoA I had an idea, hopefully not one that was already dissected as not possible

Simply put, Bands of Mourning are just unsealed Nicrosil mind filled with Mists (possibly compounded), and nothing else. All the other metals on BoM are there simply to confuse anyone who would try to replicate them (always another secret after all) and divert their attention to a wrong direction , as creating Medallions granting just 3 powers is exceedingly difficult.

The reasoning is as follows:

1. Mists can fuel Allomancy (as seen in TFA and HoA), and when doing so the Allomancer feels as if the metals were burning inside them (HoA, pg. 642). In other words, if you do not know what is happening, you can mistake mists for ingesting and using all metals (and notably, Mistborn use only the metals they know, not all that could be used, like chromium).
2. Mists can also fuel Feruchemy (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/40/#e712). This one was not seen on-screen, and is only possible according to WoB. I would assume that it would 'feel' similar to what is happening in Allomancy, i.e. you would feel stores of all the attributes and could tap them at will.
3. Both Marasi and Wax when using BoM start exuding Mists, the only other instance of exuding Mists is Vin when drawing a lot of Mists inside her (HoA, pg. 646). No other metalborn, Compounder or otherwise, ever exhibited that. We also know that Mists are gaseous Investiture in vein of Stormlight, and human body is imperfect container of such, so if you draw too much and are not using it, it leaks.
4. Finally compare these quotes from Vin on being fueled by Mists

Quote

"She felt suddenly warm, the mists surging within her, lending her their strength. Her entire body burned like metal", ... (HoA, pg. 638)

"She felt as if the bleeding sun itself blazed within her, running molten through her veins." (HoA, pg. 642)

with these from Marasi on burning metals when using BoM

Quote

"She felt the Lord Ruler's own power, stored in the Bands of Mourning - the spearhead clutched in her fingers - surge through her, and she felt she would burst. It was as if an ocean of light had suddenly been pumped into her arteries and veins." (BoM, pg. 395)

I cannot help by feel that the descriptions are very similar to one another, almost suggestively so.

 

If true, it would be in opinion quite nice trick Kelsier pulled, as anyone would assume you need to be Fullborn to create BoM and so would assume he is one, when in fact he would only need F-nicrosil and a bit of Mists to start Compounding process. Kelsier likes to pretend he is more powerful than he actually is, and if possible does so, so I think it would be in-character for him.

Possible counterargument could be that Marasi starts burning metals only after ingesting them, not before. However since Intent and knowledge matters (i.e. you need to know what you are doing to do it) it is possible that without 'jumpstarting' it with ingested metals she would not realize it is possible to do it without metals. She already had experience with unsealed metalminds, specifically F-iron ones, so she would know how to tap.

Additionally, it would require Kelsier (or someone with F-nicrosil) to draw upon Mists and store them, which is also not exactly everyday occurrence.

So what do you all think? Does this make sense?

[Honorless]

On 5/14/2021 at 2:23 PM, therunner said:

Hello, I am currently on my re-read of Mistborn and after finishing HoA I had an idea, hopefully not one that was already dissected as not possible

Simply put, Bands of Mourning are just unsealed Nicrosil mind filled with Mists (possibly compounded), and nothing else. All the other metals on BoM are there simply to confuse anyone who would try to replicate them (always another secret after all) and divert their attention to a wrong direction , as creating Medallions granting just 3 powers is exceedingly difficult.

The reasoning is as follows:

1. Mists can fuel Allomancy (as seen in TFA and HoA), and when doing so the Allomancer feels as if the metals were burning inside them (HoA, pg. 642). In other words, if you do not know what is happening, you can mistake mists for ingesting and using all metals (and notably, Mistborn use only the metals they know, not all that could be used, like chromium).
2. Mists can also fuel Feruchemy (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/40/#e712). This one was not seen on-screen, and is only possible according to WoB. I would assume that it would 'feel' similar to what is happening in Allomancy, i.e. you would feel stores of all the attributes and could tap them at will.
3. Both Marasi and Wax when using BoM start exuding Mists, the only other instance of exuding Mists is Vin when drawing a lot of Mists inside her (HoA, pg. 646). No other metalborn, Compounder or otherwise, ever exhibited that. We also know that Mists are gaseous Investiture in vein of Stormlight, and human body is imperfect container of such, so if you draw too much and are not using it, it leaks.
4. Finally compare these quotes from Vin on being fueled by Mists

with these from Marasi on burning metals when using BoM

I cannot help by feel that the descriptions are very similar to one another, almost suggestively so.

 

If true, it would be in opinion quite nice trick Kelsier pulled, as anyone would assume you need to be Fullborn to create BoM and so would assume he is one, when in fact he would only need F-nicrosil and a bit of Mists to start Compounding process. Kelsier likes to pretend he is more powerful than he actually is, and if possible does so, so I think it would be in-character for him.

Possible counterargument could be that Marasi starts burning metals only after ingesting them, not before. However since Intent and knowledge matters (i.e. you need to know what you are doing to do it) it is possible that without 'jumpstarting' it with ingested metals she would not realize it is possible to do it without metals. She already had experience with unsealed metalminds, specifically F-iron ones, so she would know how to tap.

Additionally, it would require Kelsier (or someone with F-nicrosil) to draw upon Mists and store them, which is also not exactly everyday occurrence.

So what do you all think? Does this make sense?

I think you're probably right. Yeah, if you don't know that certain limitations to the magic system have been cut, due to perception, the magic would conform to how you expect it to behave, we do see an example of this in Stormlight

Stormlight spoilers, no RoW or Dawnshard 

Spoiler

Szeth summoning Jezrien's Honorblade in 10 heartbeats

Quote

Questioner

Based on what we know currently about ten heartbeats, why does Szeth require ten heartbeats to bring forth his Honorblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Perception is a very important part of how these things all work, and remember the Honorblades work differently from everything else. Everything was based upon them. Why don't you read and find out what's going on there, but remember that the characters's perception is very important.

Questioner

So then that's why at one point Shallan requires ten heartbeats and now she doesn't?

Brandon Sanderson

Right, it's the exact same reason that Kaladin's forehead wounds don't heal. Because he views himself as having those somewhere deep inside of him and he can't heal until that gets away. And it works for the same reason why in Warbreaker when you bring something to life, your intention rather than really what you say is what matters. It's all about perception.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Honorless
edited for clarity

[GoWibble]

Just a general overview:

I think that this is viable, with a certain caveat: the mists fueling Metalic Arts is done by Preservation, under Preservation's direction. I think that this is possible Kelsier either compounds Connection to Preservation (that part of Harmony) and stores the mists in Nicrosil or if Harmony directly allowed and facilitated their 'Infusion'

[Frustration]

If the metals aren't burned then Marasi would be having side effects of eating them

[GoWibble]

15 minutes ago, Frustration said:

If the metals aren't burned then Marasi would be having side effects of eating them

This is a very good point. 

The Bands of Mourning may not function in this way, but this is possible in theory, no?

[Frustration]

Just now, GoWibble said:

This is a very good point. 

The Bands of Mourning may not function in this way, but this is possible in theory, no?

that is true, I deffinetly like it, but there are some things that need to be worked out.

[The Technovore]

I don't know if I want it to be true, but it definitely seems viable and would be really cool to see! I think its a well-constructed theory, and would fit Kel's personality and the theme of "suddenly, unkeyed magic!" that's all over BoM (unkeyed Metalminds, ettmetal being a general fuel for Allomancy and a bunch of other things, the Bands themselves)

[Quantus]

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

If the metals aren't burned then Marasi would be having side effects of eating them

I dont follow? 

[Frustration]

Just now, Quantus said:

I dont follow? 

metal poisoning

[Bejarden]

Could be that each metal has very little real Allomancy in it to throw people off

But the mists do the real work

[Quantus]

10 minutes ago, Frustration said:

metal poisoning

Right, which WOB confirms is a known problem for mistborn/mistings with poisonous metals. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/142/#e2598,   https://wob.coppermind.net/events/4/#e5178)

 

Im not following how that issue relates to the Bands being fueled by the Mists? It might have been an issue for her on normal days, but with the bands she could Heal it away like Wayne presumably does.  

Sorry if Im missing an obvious point, I feel incredibly slow today... needs me some (F)Zinc supplements or something

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Right, which WOB confirms is a known problem for mistborn/mistings with poisonous metals. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/142/#e2598,   https://wob.coppermind.net/events/4/#e5178)

 

Im not following how that issue relates to the Bands being fueled by the Mists? It might have been an issue for her on normal days, but with the bands she could Heal it away like Wayne presumably does.  

Sorry if Im missing an obvious point, I feel incredibly slow today... needs me some (F)Zinc supplements or something

If the metals didn't burn, unless the healing destroyed them, which it shouldn't given what we know, then the metals she ate should be giving her poisoning

[Quantus]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

If the metals didn't burn, unless the healing destroyed them, which it shouldn't given what we know, then the metals she ate should be giving her poisoning

Why wouldn't her metals be burning?  Either she burns them as normal on a given day (planning for it safely as allomancers have since era1), or she's wielding the Bands which would likely give her the ability itself as a Medallion, and would give her the ability to Heal from the poisoning with F-Gold otherwise (since it removes Alcohol from Wayne, if nothign else).

Also, fwiw short-term cadmium poisoning just looks like a cold and can clear up in a week or so, so we may not recognize it even if she did.  It takes years for the more dramatic long-term effects to build up, when the kidney and bone damage sets in.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Quantus said:

Why wouldn't her metals be burning?  Either she burns them as normal on a given day (planning for it safely as allomancers have since era1), or she's wielding the Bands which would likely give her the ability itself as a Medallion, and would give her the ability to Heal from the poisoning with F-Gold otherwise (since it removes Alcohol from Wayne, if nothign else).

Also, fwiw short-term cadmium poisoning just looks like a cold and can clear up in a week or so, so we may not recognize it even if she did.  It takes years for the more dramatic long-term effects to build up, when the kidney and bone damage sets in.

she ingested a lot of metals of various types, and stormlight healing doesn't destroy arrows that are in the body, so alchohol and poision are the exception.

Even if it wouldn't kill her it would be very different than standard Cadmium

[Quantus]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

she ingested a lot of metals of various types, and stormlight healing doesn't destroy arrows that are in the body, so alchohol and poision are the exception.

It doesnt destroy large objects but it does push them out of the body. The only things it straight-up won't touch (besides aluminum) are genetic disorders and things the person has incorporated into their identity (like scars or amputation that we've seen), both things that are (or have become)part of the Platonic Ideal. A poison is very much not that in all the Perceptions ways that matter to spiritual healing.  

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Even if it wouldn't kill her it would be very different than standard Cadmium

How/Why would it be any different from standard cadmium? 

And Im sorry but I still dont see how any of that informs on the whole bands fueled by the Mists question, that's the specific link I think Im missing.  

[therunner]

7 hours ago, Frustration said:

If the metals aren't burned then Marasi would be having side effects of eating them

Good point. Outside of Marasi/Wax not noticing if the amount of metal was sufficiently small (as others mentioned), or F-gold detecting it as poison (which I personally doubt) I would offer potential way out:

1. Stores from mists and metals are indistinguishable (as neither Elend, nor Vin can tell the difference).
2. Hence, when you have metals inside you at the same time as mists, the stores intermingle and you burn both.

Potential issue with this is that you would get inconsistent power depending on what you are burning. However, since burning metals pull power from Spiritual realm, maybe they could reach towards closer source of power when available? I.e. if you burn regular metal while having mists inside, the metal will not be fueled from Spiritual but form the Mist directly, so you would not perceive any difference.

[GoWibble]

On 5/14/2021 at 3:22 PM, Quantus said:

It doesnt destroy large objects but it does push them out of the body. The only things it straight-up won't touch (besides aluminum) are genetic disorders and things the person has incorporated into their identity (like scars or amputation that we've seen), both things that are (or have become)part of the Platonic Ideal. A poison is very much not that in all the Perceptions ways that matter to spiritual healing.  

How/Why would it be any different from standard cadmium? 

And Im sorry but I still dont see how any of that informs on the whole bands fueled by the Mists question, that's the specific link I think Im missing.  

What I read the point as was that if Marasi ate the metals but the lower in the Bands was fueling the Allowance, then the metals would be left over and could lead to poisoning/ ill effects.

This could have been done if Marasi pushed the metals out of her and healed from it when she threw everyone away with a TLR level steelpush.