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Which shards will help Roshar?

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Which shards do yall think will help Roshar? Hoid/Sazed has been putting out a lot of requests for shards to come help deal with Odium, who do you think will help?

Who will help?

Will Sazed help? How?

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Endovment seems to be rather good with this, and also seems to be friend with Sazed. Also, maybe Valor will help.

On the other side Autonomy and Odium seems to have good relations.

 

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I wouldn't trust Whimsy's help if they show up.

Valor might help, but she could go either way.

Invention would like fabrials probably, but they're notably hard to get into contact with and probably not willing to break that streak to help Roshar.

Mercy has a known history of working with Odium and may do so again if circumstances arise, so I wouldn't trust them either.

Autonomy probably wouldn't help without the condition of planting another one of the mini-shards on Roshar. 

Dominion and Devotion may not be able to, depending on events on Sel and if it actually was possible to stitch them back together (probably not).

Harmony has issues helping his own planet, plus BoM showed that he's already basically under siege from foreign Investiture and may not be able to leave to help, beyond potentially sending kandra out besides the one that's already there.

Endowment may consider herself already helping, between Azure, Vasher, and Nightblood all being on Roshar and playing significant roles.

Ambition doesn't even have the faint hope of getting put back together than Dominion and Devotion do, so count that one out.

And of course, Honor, Cultivation, and Odium are already involved on Roshar. I'm pretty sure that's all 14 confirmed Shards, but I'm not confident I've assessed this correctly.

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On 5/7/2021 at 8:23 PM, Invocation said:

Mercy has a known history of working with Odium

Afaik, this is unconfirmed. We don't know what the sides in the Threnodite conflict were, do we? I'd say the pattern suggests Ambition and Mercy vs Odium, but this is just speculation on my part.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Afaik, this is unconfirmed. We don't know what the sides in the Threnodite conflict were, do we? I'd say the pattern suggests Ambition and Mercy vs Odium, but this is just speculation on my part.

I'd say Harmony's worries about Mercy lead to pretty good confirmation of what side they were on in that fight.

Also I may have let my favor of the theory about Mercy dealing the final blow in a mercy kill situation bleed into a bit more certainty than I actually have.

Edited by Invocation
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1 hour ago, Invocation said:

I'd say Harmony's worries about Mercy lead to pretty good confirmation of what side they were on in that fight.

Also I may have let my favor of the theory about Mercy dealing the final blow in a mercy kill situation bleed into a bit more certainty than I actually have.

I think it's a reasonable theory, but I don't think it's by any means confirmation. I think even under the "mercy kill" idea there's further options, such as Mercy fighting alongside Ambition and only turning on them after Odium had already dealt the mortal blow and they were doing the Shardic equivalent of bleeding out (which would be in some ways more worrying than them just siding with Odium, because it means even their allies aren't safe). Or perhaps "mercy kill" is the wrong tree and instead Harmony believes Mercy would, while not siding with Odium, not allow anyone to kill Rayse or Splinter Odium because they would be pushed towards offering him mercy. So yeah, I don't think it's a confirmation by any stretch.

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I think it's a reasonable theory, but I don't think it's by any means confirmation. I think even under the "mercy kill" idea there's further options, such as Mercy fighting alongside Ambition and only turning on them after Odium had already dealt the mortal blow and they were doing the Shardic equivalent of bleeding out (which would be in some ways more worrying than them just siding with Odium, because it means even their allies aren't safe). Or perhaps "mercy kill" is the wrong tree and instead Harmony believes Mercy would, while not siding with Odium, not allow anyone to kill Rayse or Splinter Odium because they would be pushed towards offering him mercy. So yeah, I don't think it's a confirmation by any stretch.

No matter how it's cut, Mercy can't be trusted fully.

Edited by Invocation
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8 hours ago, Invocation said:

No matter how it's cut, Mercy can't be trusted fully.

Agreed.

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What do we know about Mercy besides they were involved, in some way, to Odium and Ambition's clash and Sazed saying he's worried? 

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Shardpenguin said:

What do we know about Mercy besides they were involved, in some way, to Odium and Ambition's clash and Sazed saying he's worried? 

That's it. 

Quote

Mercy is a Shard of Adonalsium that has not been Splintered and whose Vessel is unknown.[1]

Mercy was involved in a battle between Odium and Ambition, which resulted in a wound in the Spiritual Realm and had profound effects on the planet Threnody. This is likely the battle in which Ambition was Splintered.[2] Some time around the True Desolation, Harmony reached out to Mercy about the threat posed by Odium, but became worried by Mercy as a result of their exchange.[1]

This is the entire Coppermind entry for Mercy. Very mysterious (which makes me think Mercy is going be a major player at some point). If Mercy is secretly messing with Scadrial I am going to lose it.

Edited by Invocation
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Posted (edited)

On 5/9/2021 at 5:09 PM, Invocation said:

...If Mercy is secretly messing with Scadrial I am going to lose it.

I don't think it's Mercy. The Coppermind entry on Trell lays it out:

Quote

Trell is associated with one of the nine Shards that were known when trellium first appeared.[9][25] The color red has often been associated with Trell; for example, the red haze Harmony showed Waxillium Ladrian around Scadrial and the red eyes of the Set's Faceless Immortals,[6][19] but this does not narrow down the list of Shards Trell could be, since red is associated with corrupted Investiture generally, not a specific Shard.[11][26][27] Trell cannot be Preservation or Ruin, as Harmony did not know the metal;[1] it is also not Ambition, Invention, Mercy, Valor, or Whimsy, as they were unknown at the time trellium first appeared;[9] and it has been confirmed to not be Endowment.[28] It is almost certainly not Devotion, Dominion, or Honor as they are all Splintered,[29] which leaves Autonomy, Cultivation, and Odium as the remaining possibilities. Cultivation has exhibited few signs of interest in affairs beyond Roshar and it seems unlikely that she was responsible for the metal. Harmony distinctly mentions Odium in his second letter to Hoid but shares that he is worried that a Shard or Shards he cannot identify are encroaching on Scadrial,[30] suggesting that Trell is not Odium.

By process of elimination, this suggests that Trell is related to Autonomy. Direct evidence for this theory also exists. Notably, Khriss states that Autonomy often intervenes on other worlds[31] and Autonomy is known to have avatars on First of the Sun and Obrodai;[32][33] Trell may be an avatar of Autonomy manifesting on Scadrial. There is also a Daysider man named Trell on Taldain,[34] which strengthens the tie to Autonomy. The fact that Taldain is a tidally locked planet[31] and that the original Scadrian religion involving Trell, Trelagism, focused on the difference between day and night[3] may suggest the original religion had roots in Taldain; Autonomy is known to be worshiped in several religions,[35] so it seems plausible she is involved in Trelagism in some way. The metal trellium allowed Paalm to operate free from Harmony's influence,[36] a property that seems to align well with Autonomy's intent.

(emphasis added)

I feel assured that the shard laying siege to Scadrial is Autonomy, with help from TOdium (since Wax and Wayne takes place after Stormlight 5).

Edited by Aleph-Naught
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Valor and honor seem to be most closely related with respect to their nature so I think they will help.

Also i think Harmony himself cannot help because of the opposing nature's but I think he may send someone over to roshar to help. It may be a person who serves harmony.

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I could definitely see Invention coming in at some point.  That Shard could be very helpful in building up to the space age of the Cosmere.

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15 hours ago, Aleph-Naught said:

I don't think it's Mercy. The Coppermind entry on Trell lays it out:

I meant other than Trell. As an actual secret thing. 

3 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

I could definitely see Invention coming in at some point.  That Shard could be very helpful in building up to the space age of the Cosmere.

I kind of hope Invention has been just wandering around the cosmere helping people come up with things to spur each world's technological development further. I do hope we get to see them at some point though, yeah.

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19 minutes ago, Invocation said:

I kind of hope Invention has been just wandering around the cosmere helping people come up with things to spur each world's technological development further. I do hope we get to see them at some point though, yeah

It'll be interesting to see how Brandon works all of these new Shards into the story, if even at all.  I'm sure there'll be some Shards that don't really play a major role, like Whimsy.  Of the 4 new Shards we got in RoW, I think Invention and Mercy are the two we'll see the most of.  I have a feeling that Mercy will side with new Odium, and Invention will side with Harmony/Honor(or whatever Honor becomes).

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16 minutes ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

It'll be interesting to see how Brandon works all of these new Shards into the story, if even at all.  I'm sure there'll be some Shards that don't really play a major role, like Whimsy.  Of the 4 new Shards we got in RoW, I think Invention and Mercy are the two we'll see the most of.  I have a feeling that Mercy will side with new Odium, and Invention will side with Harmony/Honor(or whatever Honor becomes).

I agree, Odium doesn't seem like the type that Invention would align with all that much. Unless Invention's Vessel is really weird, which I suppose is possible.

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On 5/12/2021 at 2:09 AM, Aleph-Naught said:

 Trell cannot be Preservation or Ruin, as Harmony did not know the metal;[1] it is also not Ambition, Invention, Mercy, Valor, or Whimsy, as they were unknown at the time trellium first appeared;[9] and it has been confirmed to not be Endowment.[28] It is almost certainly not Devotion, Dominion, or Honor as they are all Splintered,[29] which leaves Autonomy, Cultivation, and Odium as the remaining possibilities.

Unknown at the time,unknown to who? because timeline wise,Mistborn 2 takes places after SA5 so,Mercy,Valor and Whimsy cannot be unknown to Sazed right?

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50 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

Unknown at the time,unknown to who? because timeline wise,Mistborn 2 takes places after SA5 so,Mercy,Valor and Whimsy cannot be unknown to Sazed right?

Unknown to the fans. In 2015, Brandon said that Trell was from a Shard we knew, which were 9 Shards at the time.

 

Here is the link (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69-shadows-of-self-release-party/#e6261)

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I could totally imagine Harmony sending a bunch of Kandras to help a bit. I really want to see that. All the letters have to lead to something anyway. I agree that Valor is another candidate. That said, I don't want too many godlike beings to meddle with the story just yet, since that might cheapen the impact of our human main characters on the long run. After two books ending with Cultivation having her way, I really hope the next time around the humans will have to solve the problems (almost) by themselves.

On 8.5.2021 at 3:23 AM, Invocation said:

Dominion and Devotion may not be able to, depending on events on Sel and if it actually was possible to stitch them back together (probably not).

The Arcanum Unbounded essay on Sel is written at an ambiguous time around Mistborn Era 2 (judging by the Scadrial essay and the confirmation that they were all written around the same time). So that's long after the Elantris books, and the Dor is still a thing - which means that Dominion and Devotion are most certainly still Splintered, as far as we can tell.

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Harmony might be helping already by sending his agents to Roshar. I don't think we will ever get a more direct action from any Shard, with Odium and Cultivation actively fighting it out. The best we can hope for is probably an Avatar of some Shard acting as a messenger or emissary.

Also, there was a theory that Cultivation and Endowment cooperated to get the Five Scholars to create Nightblood. So with Nightblood being in Cultivation's hands for a while, we can assume that Endowment is helping already. Valor sounds cool, I hope we get some letters from or to her. 

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On 5/11/2021 at 11:09 PM, Aleph-Naught said:

I don't think it's Mercy. The Coppermind entry on Trell lays it out:

["Cultivation has exhibited few signs of interest in affairs beyond Roshar and it seems unlikely that she was responsible for the metal."]

I feel assured that the shard laying siege to Scadrial is Autonomy, with help from TOdium (since Wax and Wayne takes place after Stormlight 5).

That sentence I'm quoting, why can't I keep from thinking "doesn't mean it wasn't her"?  By all accounts, until the end of RoW, Cultivation exhibited few signs of interest in affairs *on* Roshar.  Oathbringer showed us that she had set stuff in motion, but she still wasn't active until Rayse was killed (as far as the spren could tell: they thought she was ignoring Roshar for quite a while).

*Please take all Era 2 Mistborn talk with a grain of salt, it's been ages since I reread them and may be confusing things*

"The Set" has a theme of mathematical growth in the name; where do we know someone who recently declared a combo of two shards to be 'science' (please don't make me explain why the two are the same here)?  Where do we know someone with access to agents who can look like anything - as long as you don't look too close - and can even do suicide missions as long as they have replacement hordelings?  I'm as certain as you are that Autonomy is Era 3 Saze's problem, and very interested to know why you think VargOdium is involved, but the more I think about it... most of the cross-cosmere agents we've seen have been meddling with Roshar, maybe we should be looking for signs of Roshar doing its own meddling.

Of course, I suspect that Cultivation's doing Adonalsium things (probably Endowment, too), so I'd buy that she would frame Autonomy to get Sazed to pay attention to the threats around him, if Brandon goes in that direction.

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On 12/05/2021 at 11:14 PM, Invocation said:

I meant other than Trell. As an actual secret thing. 

I kind of hope Invention has been just wandering around the cosmere helping people come up with things to spur each world's technological development further. I do hope we get to see them at some point though, yeah.

From what Sazed say the three Shards influencing Scadrial other than Odium (which is too shackled to Roshar to create Trellium or any of the unkown metal) should be among the Shard not mentioned in the letter, that means Autonomy, Cultivation, The One In Hidding and The Sixteenth One

On 12/05/2021 at 11:54 PM, Invocation said:

I agree, Odium doesn't seem like the type that Invention would align with all that much. Unless Invention's Vessel is really weird, which I suppose is possible.

To be fair, neither does Mercy

On 16/05/2021 at 1:09 AM, Elegy said:

The Arcanum Unbounded essay on Sel is written at an ambiguous time around Mistborn Era 2 (judging by the Scadrial essay and the confirmation that they were all written around the same time). So that's long after the Elantris books, and the Dor is still a thing - which means that Dominion and Devotion are most certainly still Splintered, as far as we can tell.

I fail to see how someone taking up the Dor would change AonDor, from recent WoBs it's likely it already existed before the Splintering, if less affected by topographic changes

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16 minutes ago, mathiau said:

From what Sazed say the three Shards influencing Scadrial other than Odium (which is too shackled to Roshar to create Trellium or any of the unkown metal) should be among the Shard not mentioned in the letter, that means Autonomy, Cultivation, The One In Hidding and The Sixteenth One

Odium is too shackled now to be Trell, and we do not know if the Survival shard was one of the ones revealed

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Just now, Frustration said:

Odium is too shackled now to be Trell

Yes, I said that

Quote

and we do not know if the Survival shard was one of the ones revealed

Did you find a Shard with an intent tangentially related to surviving?

No reaction to my claim there are three Shard influencing Scadrial?

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