LewsTherinTelescope Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) (0.) Choice or crying Honor, death or flying Light, storm or dying Life Spoiler TL;DR: I believe that the highstorm will (be tried to) be held back, like Kaladin tried to convince the Stormfather to do in Oathbringer and Dalinar tried to do in Rhythm of War, and that this choice will have massive unforseen consequences, as the Stormfather warned both times. (1.) Death to Storms Spoiler There are quite a few ominous Death Rattles mentioning light ending, night and darkness arriving, and endless and/or dying storms: Quote “A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears.” —Collected on the 4th of Tanates, year 1171, thirty seconds before death. Subject was a cobbler of some renown.[1] Quote “I’m cold. Mother, I’m cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop?” —Collected on Vevishes, 1172, 32 seconds pre-death. Subject was a lighteyed female child, approximately six years old.[2] Quote “They are aflame. They burn. They bring the darkness when they come, and so all you can see is that their skin is aflame. Burn, burn, burn. …” —Collected on Palahishev, 1172, 21 seconds pre-death. Subject was a baker’s apprentice.[3] Quote “Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us.” —Dated Palahakev, 1173, 16 seconds pre-death. Subject: a Thaylen sailor.[4] Quote “The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather!” —Subject was a young boy.[5] Quote “Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above.” —Subject was an illiterate Herdazian man.[6] Quote “So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life . . .” —Subject was King Valam of Jah Keved.[7] These have led many to conclude that perhaps Book 5 will end with the end of the highstorm in some way (which may also explain the name of the Everstorm, if it lasts). It is often suggested that this line may perhaps refer to such a thing: Quote “I have seen the end, and have heard it named. The Night of Sorrows, the True Desolation. The Everstorm.” —Collected on the 1st of Nanes, 1172, 15 seconds pre-death. Subject was a darkeyed youth of unknown origin.[8] For what could be more sorrowful than the death of the storm upon which all of Roshar relies? There are two other lines with which I associate this potential event. (2.) Light flying Spoiler Quote “So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life . . .” —Subject was King Valam of Jah Keved.[7] And this line from Dawnshard[9], which seems awfully similar: Quote The problem is not that, Nikli sent. The problem is that I am coming to like them. This is not unexpected, Yelamaiszin sent. It had a smooth, calming buzz. It was First, the oldest of the swarms on Roshar. Nikli was the Twenty-Fourth, youngest of them. I like the Bondsmith, for example, though I know he will destroy us. He will not, Zyardil sent. Its buzz was punctuated and sharp. He has made the decision of Honor. That is why he will destroy us, Yelamaiszin replied. He is more dangerous now, not less. Many have tried to tie these to the contest of champions, alongside the following line: Quote “I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.” —Dated Shashanan, 1173, 23 seconds pre-death. Subject: a darkeyed youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note.[10] Much has been said about the child champion theory, and most people reading this have probably seen it explained before. For the sake of completeness, though, I will still offer a summary: Spoiler While the contest of champions outlines conditions for a win from either side, both include locking Odium down in the system. Instead, Odium should go for a tie (as foreshadowed by Wit's story about the rigged game where a tie defeated him[11]), so that the contest will not end, the war will not end, and the condition will never enter effect. If Odium chooses a child, likely one close to him such as Gavinor (as potentially foreshadowed by the Death Rattle), and convinces them to become his champion, Dalinar would probably not be willing to kill them. As such, the contest would last perhaps as long as Dalinar has left in his natural life. This "choice of honor" to let him live thus ushers in Odium's reign. I've had similar ideas in the past, and agree that the clues can be interpreted this way. The main reason I no longer agree is that I don't think it actually makes a whole lot of sense in the situation we currently have: the new Odium does not want the war to continue, and is happy about it ending.[12] And as I see no reason to believe this would set him free, this would be the only real outcome: a continued war. I sought for a possible other meaning for this Death Rattle, and Rhythm of War came to mind. At the end, when Kaladin jumps and is falling, Dalinar and the Stormfather have this exchange[13]: Quote We need to give them more time, Dalinar said. We cannot, the Stormfather said. Respect his frailty, and don’t force me on this, Dalinar! You could break things you do not understand, the consequences of which could be catastrophic. This got me thinking. "The choice of honor is life". Or perhaps, "the choice of Honor", made by the closest we have to Honor in the modern day: Dalinar Kholin, Bondsmith of the Stormfather, acceptor of Kaladin's Fourth Ideal[14], and generally Honorable man. What if he forces the storm again, and this time, something breaks? Except... something there that I just said there is wrong. Dalinar is not the closest we have to Honor. There is one entity on Roshar closer even than he to being the Shard of Honor... (3.) Dead Honor cries Hide contents The Stormfather and his bond are the reason Dalinar is so close to being Honor. Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow[15], the largest remnant of the Shard[16], even explicitly called out as being the closest thing left to being their God by Dalinar[16]. And that made me remember the full interaction....[13] Quote We need to give them more time, Dalinar said. We cannot, the Stormfather said. Respect his frailty, and don’t force me on this, Dalinar! You could break things you do not understand, the consequences of which could be catastrophic. Have you no compassion? Dalinar demanded. Have you no heart? I am a storm, the Stormfather said. I chose the ways of a storm. Choose better, then! Dalinar searched in the darkness, the infinity. He was full of Stormlight in a place where that didn’t matter. Choice. Life. Do I think this was the decision referred to? Perhaps. Or perhaps this is but a precursor. This time, the Stormfather prevented Dalinar from messing with the storm too much. But next time, will he take Dalinar's words to heart, and make the choice to save life? And what will happen if the Storm tries to stop itself? An interesting scene from Oathbringer[17]: Quote “Then surely with that soul, mind, and memory,” Kaladin said, “you can find mercy for the people below.” AND WHAT OF THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHO HAVE DIED IN THESE WINDS BEFORE? SHOULD I HAVE HAD MERCY FOR THEM? “Yes.” AND THE WAVES THAT SWALLOW, THE FIRES THAT CONSUME? YOU WOULD HAVE THEM STOP? “I speak only of you, and only today. Please.” Thunder rumbled. And the Stormfather actually seemed to consider the request. IT IS NOT SOMETHING I CAN DO, SON OF TANAVAST. IF THE WIND STOPS BLOWING, IT IS NOT A WIND. IT IS NOTHING. ... “The Stormfather really could be more helpful, Syl. Didn’t he claim to be your father?” It’s complicated, she said in his mind. He’s stubborn though. I’m sorry. “He’s callous,” Kaladin said. He’s a storm, Kaladin. As people over millennia have imagined him. “He could choose.” Perhaps. Perhaps not. I think what you’re doing is like asking fire to please stop being so hot. The Stormfather actually considers the request, but turns it down because "IF THE WIND STOPS BLOWING... IT IS NOTHING." But in Book 5, after Dalinar's urging in Rhythm of War, after he has become aware of the pain he causes[19], after the bond's strength grows and he becomes more "human"... would he make the same choice in this situation? He certainly seems to be considering the possibility much more now[18]: Quote You were wise to give the Windrunner more time during his fall, the Stormfather said, approaching Dalinar. You were wise to show … mercy. “It’s an important concept to learn,” Dalinar said to him. “The more you study it, the more human you will become.” I do not wish to become human, the Stormfather said. But perhaps I can learn. Perhaps I can change. “That’s all it takes,” Dalinar said. “A willingness.” And if he chooses differently, if he "chooses better"... would he truly become "nothing"? (4.) "Choice." Hide contents To summarize: The "choice of honor is life" Death Rattle refers to the Stormfather, the closest existing entity to being Honor The choice at hand is something to do with sparing people (exact scenario uncertain) He will have mercy, as he has been begged to before by Kaladin and demanded to by Dalinar, but this will screw up the storm big-time (hence all the Rattles about "dying light" and such) (I.) References Spoiler The Way of Kings, chapter 3 epigraph The Way of Kings, chapter 6 epigraph The Way of Kings, chapter 7 epigraph The Way of Kings, chapter 56 epigraph The Way of Kings, chapter 71 The Way of Kings, endnote Words of Radiance, chapter I-14 The Way of Kings, chapter 5 epigraph Dawnshard, chapter 6 The Way of Kings, chapter 57 epigraph Rhythm of War, chapter 99 Rhythm of War, chapter 114 Rhythm of War, chapter 107 Rhythm of War, chapter 111 Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015) Quote Questioner Does the spren have to be present for a Surgebinder to have their abilities? Because with Dalinar, the Stormfather won’t be around all the time... Brandon Sanderson Good Question! Fortunately, the Stormfather is a little more omnipresent. Normally you’re gonna have to have your spren close, but the Stormfather absorbed... is basically Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, which means he’s got a connection to a lot of different things, so he’s not bound by a lot of the rules that others are. Oathbringer, chapter 4 Quote “The Stormfather is the largest remnant of Honor,” Dalinar said. “He’s a sliver of the Almighty himself—and is the closest thing to a god we have left.” Oathbringer, chapter 31 Rhythm of War, chapter 116 Oathbringer, chapter 86 Quote “Why did you bond me?” Dalinar whispered to the Stormfather. “Shouldn’t you have picked a man who was just?” Just? Justice is what you brought to those people. “That was not justice. That was a massacre.” The Stormfather rumbled. I have burned and broken cities myself. I can see … yes, I see a difference now. I see pain now. I did not see it before the bond. Choice or crying honor, death or flying light, storm or dying life? "Death to Storm and Light flying," o dead Honor cries. "Choice..." Edited July 18, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope Add another quote 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: Death to Storms Hmm, the implication of a storm that never dies while another storm ends makes me think that the Highstorm will die while the Everstorm rages on. Interesting collection of thoughts and theory. Well constructed and well made. I will say that I find it unlikely that BS would do that, as it does not seem his style, he seems more like the type to make the choice of mercy a good thing, but the theory is good and makes sense. Edited May 5, 2021 by Aspiring Writer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted May 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just now, Aspiring Writer said: I will say that I find it unlikely that BS would do that, as it does not seem his style, he seems more like the type to make the choice of mercy a good thing Yeah, I do agree. I'm always hesitant to make theories about the "night will reign" Death Rattle for this reason, as all the theories I've seen (including this one) just don't feel like something Brandon. But I can't think of any reasonable interpretation of it that does feel like something he'd do, either.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mdross81 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) Interesting theory, and great analysis as always @LewsTherinTelescope Based on the same Dalinar and Kaladin scenes you mention, it's basically my head canon now that the Stormfather has been deliberately non-interventionist when it comes to the appeals to avoid or lessen the destruction wrought by his bringing the highstorms. He outright says that taking action to save Kaladin might break things Dalinar doesn't understand, and that the consequences could be catastrophic. Your theory as to what those consequences might be - him ceasing to be a storm - is a pretty sensible one and is well-foreshadowed. As for the consequences if he did cease being a storm, in addition to the importance of the highstorms to the ecology of Roshar, I also remembered this other line about the storms' role, from WoR 82: Quote I am the sliver of Him that remains. I saw His corpse, saw Him die when odium murdered Him. And I ... I fled. To continue as I always have. The piece of God left in this world, the winds that men must feel. Maybe the Stormfather is just being a bit poetic and egotistical, but maybe there's something to the idea that men must feel the winds. What would happen if they no longer did? One other quote that might fit somewhere is this one from WoR 83. Like the quote above, this is in response to Dalinar asking who the Stormfather is: Quote I am that which brings Light and Darkness. He claims to bring both. I wonder whether part of the consequences the Stormfather mentions to Dalinar could be him losing the ability to continue bringing the Light? Edited May 5, 2021 by mdross81 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted May 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, mdross81 said: As for the consequences if he did cease being a storm, in addition to the importance of the highstorms to the ecology of Roshar, I also remembered this other line about the storms' role, from WoR 82: Quote I am the sliver of Him that remains. I saw His corpse, saw Him die when odium murdered Him. And I ... I fled. To continue as I always have. The piece of God left in this world, the winds that men must feel. ...huh. I really need to reread Words of Radiance, because I have no memory of that line. I'll need to reread the context. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mdross81 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: ...huh. I really need to reread Words of Radiance, because I have no memory of that line. I'll need to reread the context. It's just before the Everstorm is pulled through. At the very end of 81, the Stormfather says he's sorry that Dalinar has to die this way. Dalinar initially thinks it's the Almighty. They have a conversation in snippets through the changing POVs in 82 and 83. It's really the first time they speak. So it's the Stormfather introducing himself and then saying that things are hopeless and that the most he can do is bring a storm of cleansing to wash away their bodies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted May 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 20 minutes ago, mdross81 said: So it's the Stormfather introducing himself and then saying that things are hopeless and that the most he can do is bring a storm of cleansing to wash away their bodies. Ahhh okay, I do remember that part. I am so curious what went down at Tanavast's death. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 This is something i can see happening! It might be the major death in 5th book with stormfather dying? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunu’anaki Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 14 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: Yeah, I do agree. I'm always hesitant to make theories about the "night will reign" Death Rattle for this reason, as all the theories I've seen (including this one) just don't feel like something Brandon. But I can't think of any reasonable interpretation of it that does feel like something he'd do, either.... Sure, but Brandon would totally kill the storm in this way if it meant the Stormfather were doing something better for the world... If "the choice of Honor is Life" is truly tied to the Stormfather stopping the storm in some fashion as @LewsTherinTelescope suggests here... what if his choice is to give a large amount of the shard of honor over to "Life" aka Cultivation? It could explain why she directly interacted with Dalinar using the Old Magic and might be an interesting direction to go with for keeping Todium in check... Storms, now you've got me thinking of what kind of names an Honor/Cultivation shard would have... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 11 hours ago, Lunu’anaki said: Storms, now you've got me thinking of what kind of names an Honor/Cultivation shard would have... Well i do believe the Rhythm of the two shards together has been called "science", but I have zero clue how reliable that is for Shardic Intent Names. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mdross81 Posted May 7, 2021 Report Share Posted May 7, 2021 On 5/5/2021 at 11:45 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said: The Stormfather actually considers the request, but turns it down because "IF THE WIND STOPS BLOWING... IT IS NOTHING." This theory has really gotten into my head and I'm liking it more and more. I was re-reading the scenes where Kaladin and Dalinar ask the Stormfather to have mercy and spare people. And it's telling that, each time, the Stormfather replies by asking about all of the other times when people have been or will be caught in the storms. He's thinking about the precedent. Because if he spares one forager who waited too long to seek safety, but then later doesn't save another person in the exact same situation, how can he be said to be acting honorably? And to act dishonorably is antithetical to his very identity. I think it's possible that, in the Stormfather's view, the only options available are to spare no one, or to spare everyone. But the only way to spare everyone is to cease being a storm altogether. As a side note, I think that when Honor still lived, things might have been different. Note this brief exchange between Dalinar and the SF from OB 115: Quote Crimson. Furious. Burning. The Everstorm’s clouds flowed in from the west. Like blood billowing in water, each new thunderhead spurted from the one behind it, hemorrhaging fits of lightning. And beneath the storm – within its shadow, and upon those tempestuous seas – ships dotted the waves. “Ships?” he whispered. “They sailed during the storm?” He controls it, the Stormfather said, his voice diminutive – like the pattering of rain. He uses it, as Honor once used me. Dalinar is surprised that Odium's forces were able to sail during the storm, but the SF explains that Odium is able to control the Everstorm so that it propels, but doesn't harm, his fleet of ships. The SF compares this to how Honor once used him, which maybe suggests that while Honor lived, he was able to exercise some level of selective control over the fury of the highstorms. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruelSadist Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) On 5/6/2021 at 11:59 AM, Halyo_Alex said: Well i do believe the Rhythm of the two shards together has been called "science", but I have zero clue how reliable that is for Shardic Intent Names. Keep in mind that the Vessel has quite a bit of sway over this, so if Navani herself were the one to take both Shards, it should 100% become Science. Honestly, combining Shards is where I have the most fun, because it encourages pondering Platonic Ideals. Cultivation's truest Intent, the one thing that every Vessel has to attune to, seems likely to be Growth. Not simply "I want things to change", but rather "I want to encourage things to grow." Honor, on the other hand, may be influenced by Tanavast, and may really be something closer to Order (or 'Order' is one of the Dawnshard groups, but I suspect that all Investiture can be labeled as either Emotion / "Passion" / Individual or Logic / "Choice" / Societal). This is where things get interesting, because "orderly growth" IMO is expansion. Depending on the Vessel, it could be interpreted as Manifest Destiny, which, as we know from history and (MAJOR ERA 4 spoilers) Spoiler the reading from the Sixth of the Dusk sequel, can be incredibly lacking in honor. "We're taking 99.9% of your resources or leaving you to fend for yourself" is pretty messed up. EDIT: I re-read a bit of the end of RoW looking for something for another thread and happened to notice that "choice" is a frequently italicized word, then realized it works far better than 'control' to convey the expression of logic, so I'm going with that for now Edited May 10, 2021 by CruelSadist Realization 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 Just now, CruelSadist said: Keep in mind that the Vessel has quite a bit of sway over this, so if Navani herself were the one to take both Shards, it should 100% become Science. Honestly, combining Shards is where I have the most fun, because it encourages pondering Platonic Ideals. Cultivation's truest Intent, the one thing that every Vessel has to attune to, seems likely to be Growth. Not simply "I want things to change", but rather "I want to encourage things to grow." Honor, on the other hand, may be influenced by Tanavast, and may really be something closer to Order (or 'Order' is one of the Dawnshard groups, but I suspect that all Investiture can be labeled as either Emotion / Passion / Individual or Logic / Control / Societal). This is where things get interesting, because "orderly growth" IMO is expansion. Depending on the Vessel, it could be interpreted as Manifest Destiny, which, as we know from history and (MAJOR ERA 4 spoilers) Hide contents the reading from the Sixth of the Dusk sequel, can be incredibly lacking in honor. "We're taking 99.9% of your resources or leaving you to fend for yourself" is pretty messed up. Well I must say that fits as an unnerving possibility... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruelSadist Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 Whoops, forgot to even reply to the topic lol RE: whether or not Brandon would write Odium winning - I think it's mandatory. "And so the night shall reign, for the choice of honor is life." There is no honor in murder, no matter what the reasoning is. Think about it this way: imagine Odium chooses Moash. He's an absolute piece of trash with no redeeming qualities, right? It's worth it to kill him to save a literal planet, right? Except what if it isn't? What if forgiving him leads to a far better future even if it's a much more difficult present? That possibility of a better future is what people usually use to argue against killing a baby to save the world, like once we hit a certain age we're incapable of change, but even if you KNOW "it's a net positive, universe-wide, to kill them," the entire point of the first Ideal is to accept that the ends don't justify the means. Life before death, even if you're talking about killing one jerk to save the universe. I'll admit I'm a little biased because I can't help but imagine, as far gone as he is, how beautiful it would be for our prodigal son to make the choice that Amaram didn't, but that's not a factor with the actual argument, so deal with it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 Well if Moash is the Champion that means he is Willing, right? And if a murderer wants to fight to the death for an evil entity for rule of the Cosmere I don’t think there would be a problem with obliging him A child on the other hand doesn’t really understand what he is doing, while he can still be willing he is, in my opinion, a innocent kid 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted May 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, CruelSadist said: There is no honor in murder, no matter what the reasoning is. I mean, the Stormfather thought Dalinar burning Rathalas was honorable conduct and merely him meting out the justice they deserved, so.... Edit: 1 hour ago, CruelSadist said: the entire point of the first Ideal is to accept that the ends don't justify the means. Life before death, even if you're talking about killing one jerk to save the universe. We've actually been told several of the orders are completely okay with an "ends justify the means" philosophy, this is merely the interpretation of our main characters of what the Ideal means. But their interpretation is indeed relevant here, so this is somewhat pedantic. Edited May 11, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScadrianTank Posted May 12, 2021 Report Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) On 05.05.2021 at 6:45 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said: “Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above.” —Subject was an illiterate Herdazian man.[6] I looked at this one again, and it seems like it might be a foreshadowing of the Everstorm. Roshar is above silence because of the Rhythms, the illuminating storm is Highstorm because it brings Stormlight, dying storm is the Everstorm, and the silence above is Braize which is barren. Edit: Literally the next WoB on keteks that I found says that it's about Honor's death and I'm sad. Quote Argent The ketek in the first book ["Above silence, the illuminating storms - dying storms - illuminate the silence above"], it seems like this refers to Honor's death. Brandon Sanderson Mmhmm. Argent What does "Above silence," refer to? Brandon Sanderson Above a silent land. Argent Hmm. Roshar, somehow? Okay, you're not gonna tell that. And the second ketek, in Words of Radiance, similarly refers to the highstorm and the Everstorm... Is there more to it? Brandon Sanderson No, it's by Navani about the two [storms]. Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014) Edited May 12, 2021 by ScadrianTank 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted May 12, 2021 Report Share Posted May 12, 2021 2 hours ago, ScadrianTank said: I looked at this one again, and it seems like it might be a foreshadowing of the Everstorm. Roshar is above silence because of the Rhythms, the illuminating storm is Highstorm because it brings Stormlight, dying storm is the Everstorm, and the silence above is Braize which is barren. Edit: Literally the next WoB on keteks that I found says that it's about Honor's death and I'm sad. Brandond said "Mmhmm", not exactly a yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted May 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 4 hours ago, ScadrianTank said: Literally the next WoB on keteks that I found says that it's about Honor's death and I'm sad. Interesting. I think that's just an "mhm, how interesting" mhm, but I'm not sure. Definitely don't think it can be completely dismissed, though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serack Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 (edited) So pulling back some for some broader perspective...And for that I'll provide a WoB: Spoiler Quote Rybal (paraphrased) How did you come up with the geography on Roshar? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) The geography on Roshar was developed as a natural outgrowth of the highstorm, which was the first concept for Roshar, which was inspired by the storm of Jupiter, which was me wanting to tell a story about a world with a continual magical storm. And then I built the ecology and all of these things up from that. Roshar had to grow up--I had to find a mechanism by which stone was deposited by rain, because I felt that the constant weathering over that long of a time would leave no continents. So the crem was my kind of scientific-with-one-foot-in-magic hack on keeping the continent. So the continent does drift. They don't have plate tectonics. The continent actually moves as it gets weathered on the east and gets pushed that direction over millennia of time. Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014) Quote Questioner I get the impression after reading Stormlight 1 and 2 that a lot of what you would consider to be flora, plant-life, is actually something like coral in the ocean which is actually an animal. So is there actually any flora on Roshar outside out of, like, Shinovar? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yeah, like almost all the things you see as flora are actual flora. Like, rockbuds are flora, trees are flora, shalebark is not, and some of the things like that-- haspers are not, and some of these things are more-- are animal life, are fauna. But grass is actually a flora, and trees. Now I mean one of the big adaptations they've had to make is that they have to use crem, so a lot of the trees that you'll find on Roshar, they will be using crem that falls and you use this to create shells, you use this to infuse your bark, they use this in a lot of different ways, the minerals there are very important because they're not getting from the soil what plants on our world get from soil, a lot of them do. You have to get all of your minerals and things basically have to come from the crem. Bystander Which the farmers already knew. Brandon Sanderson Which the farmers already knew. JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016) Quote Argent Is the Earth-like biome in Shinovar a product solely of environmental factors (e.g. shelter from the highstorms), or is there a magical component as well? Brandon Sanderson On Roshar, the environment and magic are so intertwined, environmental factors ARE magical components. /r/books AMA 2015 (June 9, 2015) Quote Paleo On the Discord also they tried to... because the moon is always like on the horizon and they did the math and technically it's possible but it would have to change its inclination I think through one hundred degrees every turn. Is it natural or is it also maintained by... Brandon Sanderson It is also maintained by the system. We ran the math on that one too. It, like, the Rosharans also are not in a stable orbit but this one's even less in a stable orbit, let's just say that. Paleo Somebody did like the universe simulator thing and somebody ran it to Roshar and they said it crashed into each other. Brandon Sanderson I mean they would, we find we got like ten, no like a hundred thousand years before it happens but yeah, the moons are very not stable on Roshar, let's just say that. I'm not convinced that the continent is stable either. On geological terms I don't think... if Roshar were as old as Earth is, you would not have a continent, is what I think. Even with the crem and stuff. Paleo The crem isn't enough... you said before that it shifts east? Brandon Sanderson That's what I think, I haven't done the math but that's what my instinct says that it wouldn't be enough. But we'll leave that for people who actually run the math until they... because I do not have time to get a degree in ecological science. Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019) Ok, so the Highstorm is a driving force for Aldonasium's design for his interesting creation, and Honor as part of the Highstorm is a bit of a recent development. I have to think that part of these unknown ramifications would have to do with the inner-workings of how the Highestorm seems to maintain a quazi stability for both the geology and the ecology of the planet through magical means. So if Dalinar or Kaladin were to convince the Stormfather to change how he blows, that could destabilize the planet's geology and ecology. There are other WoB about how it's a good question to ask how the crem gets into the storms, and that might be related too. On a similar note, Brandon RAFO'd if the Everstorm has crem, and I have to wonder how having 2 storms coming from opposite directions might have ramifications on the planet's long term stability. Edited May 17, 2021 by Serack 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ba-Ado-Fisherman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 I have also theorized that the Night of Sorrows will be the end of Roshar's continuous Stormlight supply. For one reason or another, I think either Highstorms will stop, or they will just stop producing Investiture, leaving Roshar in a sort of permanent darkness. My pet theory is that Dalinar will leave Roshar after losing the contest, and somehow take the Stormfather with him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunu’anaki Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 12 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said: My pet theory is that Dalinar will leave Roshar after losing the contest, and somehow take the Stormfather with him. A Fused Dalinar that keeps his radiant bond would be a wild thing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 18 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said: I have also theorized that the Night of Sorrows will be the end of Roshar's continuous Stormlight supply. For one reason or another, I think either Highstorms will stop, or they will just stop producing Investiture, leaving Roshar in a sort of permanent darkness. My pet theory is that Dalinar will leave Roshar after losing the contest, and somehow take the Stormfather with him. Well the Stormfather would just end the Bond right? Unless you somehow get Hemilurgy involved... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 4 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said: Well the Stormfather would just end the Bond right? Unless you somehow get Hemilurgy involved... Or....... Unmake him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ba-Ado-Fisherman Posted May 21, 2021 Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 18 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said: Well the Stormfather would just end the Bond right? Unless you somehow get Hemilurgy involved... Exactly what I was thinking. *Imagines a spiked Dalinar with Bondsmith abilities working for Odium, conquering the Cosmere* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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