Does Dalinar have living Shardplate?

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

An interesting passage from Oathbringer, Chapter 109.  From Venli's POV, while in a Vision with Dalinar.

“Above, the man in the blue uniform leaped into the chasm.
He fell beside the hole’s perimeter, and stretched one hand toward Venli. His other ground against the rock wall, hand scraping the stone. Something flashed around his arm. Lines of light, a framework that covered his body. His fingers didn’t bleed as they scraped the stone.”

 

This seems eerily similar to the way living Shardplate is described by Kaladin in RoW.

Chapter 110: 

“Lines of light exploded around him as the spren transformed—being pulled into this realm and choosing to Connect to him.”

Notice, "lines of light" are described in both instances.

 

This could be a stretch, but I think Dalinar might already have the ability to form living Shardplate.

 

[Weltall]

We saw something similar with Jasnah in OB and found out in RoW that yes, she has Plate. I'd be positive that we're seeing proto-Plate in that vision except for the fact that the Stormfather tells Dalinar that he will be a Radiant with no Shards, which to me sounds like he meant that not only would the Stormfather not become a Blade for him but that he wouldn't get Plate either. On the other hand, since we know that Plate is made up of different spren there doesn't seem to be any mechanical reason why Dalinar couldn't get Plate just because his spren won't become a Blade and Brandon kinda-sorta implies that a Bondsmith will get it at the Fourth Ideal here though he doesn't outright confirm it and RAFO'd it when someone later asked him directly.

So... I do think Dalinar can get Plate and we saw a sort of early echo of that in the vision (call it Spiritual shenanigans, like Syl briefly taking on Shallan's appearance before she and Kaladin even met her) and Brandon has been vague on purpose, but it's not a sure thing.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Weltall

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

39 minutes ago, Weltall said:

We saw something similar with Jasnah in OB and found out in RoW that yes, she has Plate. I'd be positive that we're seeing proto-Plate in that vision except for the fact that the Stormfather tells Dalinar that he will be a Radiant with no Shards, which to me sounds like he meant that not only would the Stormfather not become a Blade for him but that he wouldn't get Plate either. On the other hand, since we know that Plate is made up of different spren there doesn't seem to be any mechanical reason why Dalinar couldn't get Plate just because his spren won't become a Blade and Brandon kinda-sorta implies that a Bondsmith will get it at the Fourth Ideal here though he doesn't outright confirm it and RAFO'd it when someone later asked him directly.

So... I do think Dalinar can get Plate and we saw a sort of early echo of that in the vision (call it Spiritual shenanigans, like Syl briefly taking on Shallan's appearance before she and Kaladin even met her) and Brandon has been vague on purpose, but it's not a sure thing.

Yeah, right away I thought it was weird, considering the Stormfather said he would have no Shards, but I'm guessing that only applies to a Shardbalde.  (Nevertheless, I do think we'll see Dalinar summon Stormfather as a blade during the contest of champions, but I digress)

[mathiau]

53 minutes ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

Yeah, right away I thought it was weird, considering the Stormfather said he would have no Shards, but I'm guessing that only applies to a Shardbalde.  (Nevertheless, I do think we'll see Dalinar summon Stormfather as a blade during the contest of champions, but I digress)

That one doesn't seem possible, there's a limit to how much Investiture can be stuffed in a single place before it starts leaking like Nightblood does, and the Stormfather is definitely above it

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

1 minute ago, mathiau said:

That one doesn't seem possible, there's a limit to how much Investiture can be stuffed in a single place before it starts leaking like Nightblood does, and the Stormfather is definitely above it

I would argue that Nightblood is more invested than the Stormfather.

[mathiau]

39 minutes ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

I would argue that Nightblood is more invested than the Stormfather.

He is not

Quote

Questioner

You've previously said that Nightblood is the most powerful non-Shardic being in the Cosmere. Is he more powerful than the Unmade or Stormfather in terms of raw Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Raw Investiture? Here's the thing, when you say powerful, it can mean lots of different things. More raw Investiture than the Stormfather... probably not. Than the Unmade, probably. I would have to look, I don't have the numbers on this. But the Stormfather is very restricted in what he can do.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

Not that it matters much since Nightblood has been bleeding smoke since at least the battle of Twilight Falls

Edited May 4, 2021 by mathiau

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

6 minutes ago, mathiau said:

He is not

Not that it matters much since Nightblood has been bleeding smoke since at least the battle of Twilight Falls

I'll concede to that.  However, this WoB was before Nightblood consumed Rayse, and I think it's safe to assume that Rayse himself was more invested than Stormfather.

So, I guess it depends on whether or not Nightblood has a limit to how much Investiture it can accumulate over time.

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

my mistake 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Ba-Ado-Fisherman

[LewsTherinTelescope]

19 hours ago, Weltall said:

Brandon kinda-sorta implies that a Bondsmith will get it at the Fourth Ideal here though he doesn't outright confirm it

I definitely read this as implying the other way, personally.

Quote

Hoidonalsium

Okay. How many Oaths is he on?

Brandon Sanderson

The number you think. So, he should have just finished three, right? Or maybe four. I'll have to go look. It's the number that you think it is. I'm not being sneaky on you. There's nothing sneaky there. He doesn't get armor, so I can't remember where he is... He should be at three. "Life before death." "I will unite instead of divide." "I will stand up each time I fall." Yeah, so he's done three.

Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017)

I read this as "he won't get Plate, so I can't use the same milestone to remember his Ideal".

[mathiau]

17 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

I'll concede to that.  However, this WoB was before Nightblood consumed Rayse, and I think it's safe to assume that Rayse himself was more invested than Stormfather.

So, I guess it depends on whether or not Nightblood has a limit to how much Investiture it can accumulate over time.

Nightblood didn't consume much about Rayse, he was mostly stuffed by eating the Perpendicularity, there even was a (disfigured) body for Dalinar to burn

I guess there's no hard cap to how much Nightblood can take in but it's likely there's a soft cap since at some point he'd bleed smoke faster than he can eat

Anyway we're kind of getting of tracks (not that that discussion is uninteresting) my original point was that the minimal size a Shardblade can have is probably at least "big enough that it won't leak"

1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I definitely read this as implying the other way, personally.

I read this as "he won't get Plate, so I can't use the same milestone to remember his Ideal".

I don't read it as implying either way honestly, Shallan has proven people could be at the 4th Oath without having their plate

[LewsTherinTelescope]

10 minutes ago, mathiau said:

I don't read it as implying either way honestly, Shallan has proven people could be at the 4th Oath without having their plate

I mean, Shallan is kind of a weird case and we don't even know what Ideal she is yet, so I think using her as an example is probably not a good idea.

[+Harrycrapper]

14 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I mean, Shallan is kind of a weird case and we don't even know what Ideal she is yet, so I think using her as an example is probably not a good idea.

Yea Shallan is quite capable of suppressing something like that, she's not a reliable foundation to base any assumptions on. 

Although it isn't definitive, the Bondsmith art from the WoK Kickstarter does not feature someone wearing armor. The only other Order that doesn't have someone in armor is the Windrunners, so it might have just been them not wanting to draw the characters in armor who are going to have big moments obtaining their armor, but that might be saying something. Something else that's odd about the Bondsmith art is that the woman standing beside Dalinar(I'm not sure if it's Navani or a future squire) seems to have some sort of Shardblade...

[Morningtide]

I wonder if the Sibling will let Navani turn them into a Shardblade? The Stormfather doesn't want Dalinar to, but the Sibling might have different views.

[Frustration]

16 minutes ago, Morningtide said:

I wonder if the Sibling will let Navani turn them into a Shardblade? The Stormfather doesn't want Dalinar to, but the Sibling might have different views.

Bondsmiths don't get blades at all, not just Dalinar

[Morningtide]

Where is the reference for that? Just out of curiosity.

[Bejarden]

9 minutes ago, Morningtide said:

Where is the reference for that? Just out of curiosity.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/122/#e3311

[mathiau]

45 minutes ago, Morningtide said:

I wonder if the Sibling will let Navani turn them into a Shardblade? The Stormfather doesn't want Dalinar to, but the Sibling might have different views.

Wouldn't that require unsummonsing Urithiru?

18 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/122/#e3311

Note the past tense.

Also this is obviously only about Godspren Boundsmiths, if someone managed to make sapient a gloryspren they would probably be able to make someone a Boundsmith with a Shardblade, though their Surge would probably work "normally" and not in the weird way Boundsmiths does so they might be considered an eleventh order

[Bejarden]

10 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Note the past tense.

Also this is obviously only about Godspren Boundsmiths, if someone managed to make sapient a gloryspren they would probably be able to make someone a Boundsmith with a Shardblade, though their Surge would probably work "normally" and not in the weird way Boundsmiths does so they might be considered an eleventh order

Let’s use process of elimination 

Sibling is already ‘summoned’ as Urithiru 

Stormfather has refused

The Nightwatcher never has and Honors death, which could have changed the other 2 (unless the Recreance for some reason would have it) wouldn’t affect her

I could see a 4th Bondsmith with a Glory spren getting Shards and just the regular use of the surges without extra weird things

[apepi]

Well, all the Bondsmith spren we have seen are in the physical realm(atleast some).

Storm father is the storm, Sibling is a city and the Nightwatcher has their own body.

I think all the Bondsmith spren might be physical in some way. And because they are, unlike normal spren, already have a body in the physical then it is hard for them to make themselves into another physical form.

[Honorless]

I interpreted that as him using his Surges. Dalinar could use a Spiritual version of Tension & Adhesion to repair or keep together structures in the Physical Realm or in the Visions. Adhesion to manipulate Connections. I thought this was Tension on the surface on his hands for grip strength, possibly also Adhesion to stick to surfaces.

We don't really see any spren congregating around Dalinar during that scene. He doesn't already have a Bond with his Order's minor spren, suspected to be Gloryspren, to create Shardplate. The first time the Plate manifests, we should've seen the spren, after that they can remain invisible, and become visible on command, as we learned in RoW. We do have a Gloryspren congregation but that happened later on during the Unity moment. The Vision was happening close to the Spiritual Realm though, so it's possible the spren were there and we just didn't see them.

Since Shardplate aren't made from the Godspren themselves, Bondsmiths might be able to have Shardplate. Hmm... though the Stormfather does say that he'll be "a Radiant without Shards".

[apepi]

I think that the Highstorm will be his 'plate'. While he fights in it, it will help him fight/protect him.