Ba-Ado-Fisherman

The Night of Sorrows

70 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Green chicken said:

One data point is nowhere near enough to to extrapolate from.

One data point is a possibility (and as I said we have two points of data)

1 hour ago, Green chicken said:

That's not the only reason why the 5th Bondsmith ideal probably doesn't negate the 4 previous ideals. The 5 ideals have to make thematic sense. For example, the reason that the 5th ideal negates the previous 4 ideals for a Skybreaker, is that the theme of the Skybreaker ideals is following codes to insure that you do the right thing. Once a Skybreaker reaches the 5th ideal, they can change their code, because they understand codes well enough. Thematically it would make zero sense for the 5th Edgedancer ideal, to allow the Edgedancer to forget those who have been forgotten. Same thing with the Bondsmiths, how would it make thematic sense for the 5th Bondsmith ideal to allow them to divide people? It's literally the antithesis of the entire order.          

I didn't say negate, I said supersed

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, mathiau said:

One data point is a possibility (and as I said we have two points of data)

What's the second data point?

I didn't say negate, I said supersed

What's the difference?

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Green chicken said:

"But as for Ishi’Elin, his was the part most important at their inception; he readily understood the implications of Surges being granted to men, and caused organization to be thrust upon them; as having too great power, he let it be known that he would destroy each and every one, unless they agreed to be bound by precepts and laws." - Words of Radiance chapter 42 epigraphs.

I do not agree that that refers to the Ideals. The Ideals don't prevent Surgebinders from warring, they don't prevent Surgebinders from causing chaos, several of the order Ideals don't even really have a moral component at all as far as we know (most extreme example being the Lightweavers). Establishing an organization with rules and structure and forcing all of them to adhere to it, however, could do so.

(This also raises the question of why he needed to threaten them into it, since as far as we know, Radiant bonds without Oaths seems to just be how it is, without a choice one way or the other.)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Green chicken said:

What's the second data point?

Lightweavers

Also, Windrunners' 4th Oath of accepting to fail supersede their 2nd and 3rd Oath of saving everybodies so that's three data points

Quote

What's the difference?

Negate: you no longer have to remember the forgotten

Supersede: You can forget the fallen but only to do X

Edited by mathiau
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4.5.2021 at 7:52 PM, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

I highly doubt that Rayse or Taravangian would care about Dalinar if they couldn't exploit his incredible abilities as a Surgebinder.

Odium can make Cognitive Shadows into Surgebinders. Nor are Dalinar's capabilities exceptionally large. Ishar rivals him.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Also, Windrunners' 4th Oath of accepting to fail supersede their 2nd and 3rd Oath of saving everybodies so that's three data points

I do not think 4th Oath of Windrunners supersedes the previous ones, if anything it turns those Oaths inwards and allows Windrunner to protect themselves by not stretching themselves too much. I would argue that even Skybreakers 4rd Oath is inward focused, as unlike the previous ones it asks them to make some form of judgement themselves (that being the chosen crusade).

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Odium can make Cognitive Shadows into Surgebinders. Nor are Dalinar's capabilities exceptionally large. Ishar rivals him.

I'm pretty sure Dalinar is the most powerful non-Shard in the Cosmere.  Ishar requires his Honorblade to even have Surgebinding abilites.  Dalinar can summon a perpendicularity at will.  He can send people visions.  He is bonded to the remnants of Honor.  He literally Ascended at one point, and was able to make Odium cower in fear and flee.  

I would argue that Dalinar is more powerful than even the Lord Ruler.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

I'm pretty sure Dalinar is the most powerful non-Shard in the Cosmere.  Ishar requires his Honorblade to even have Surgebinding abilites.  Dalinar can summon a perpendicularity at will.  He can send people visions.  He is bonded to the remnants of Honor.  He literally Ascended at one point, and was able to make Odium cower in fear and flee.  

I would argue that Dalinar is more powerful than even the Lord Ruler.  

Thaidakar is most likely above and if the current Hallandren king has a tongue he might be just as strong too, but yes, definitely top four (or three if Hoid doesn't count)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, mathiau said:

Thaidakar is most likely above and if the current Hallandren king has a tongue he might be just as strong too, but yes, definitely top four (or three if Hoid doesn't count)

Yeah I forgot about Hoid, he's probably up there, though he apparently can't hurt anyone.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

40 minutes ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

I'm pretty sure Dalinar is the most powerful non-Shard in the Cosmere.  Ishar requires his Honorblade to even have Surgebinding abilites.  Dalinar can summon a perpendicularity at will.  He can send people visions.  He is bonded to the remnants of Honor.  He literally Ascended at one point, and was able to make Odium cower in fear and flee.  

I would argue that Dalinar is more powerful than even the Lord Ruler.  

Plenty of people can defeat Dalinar in a fight, here are just some examples:

Heralds

Windrunners above the 2nd ideal

Skybreakers above the 2nd ideal

Elsecallers who are proficient at soulcasting

Lightweavers who are proficient at soulcasting and or lighweaving

Truthwatchers who are proficient at lighweaving

Dustbringers who are proficient at division

Radiants above the 4th ideal

Shards

Coinshots

Mistborn

any twin born who has steel

Steel compunders

Neturo-son-Vallano with the bondsmith honorblade 

Ishar with the bondsmith honorblade

Moash

Szeth-son-Neturo

Fullborn

The 5 scholars excluding sahashara 

Elatrians

Feruchemists

Kandra with one spike

Sleepless

anyone bonded to yelig-nar who can control the power

Warform singers

Anyone in shardlate

While Dalinar is dangerous, he isn't immortal. As a fused he shouldn't be too difficult to kill with anti voidlight. The coalition already has raysium dangers.

 

Edited by Green chicken
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Green chicken said:

Plenty of people can defeat Dalinar in a fight, here are just some examples:

Heralds

Windrunners above the 2nd ideal

Skybreakers above the 2nd ideal

Elsecallers who are proficient at soulcasting

Lightweavers who are proficient at soulcasting and or lighweaving

Truthwatchers who are proficient at lighweaving

Dustbringers who are proficient at division

Radiants above the 4th ideal

Shards

Coinshots

Mistborn

any twin born who has steel

Steel compunders

Neturo-son-Vallano with the bondsmith honorblade 

Ishar with the bondsmith honorblade

Moash

Szeth-son-Neturo

Fullborn

The 5 scholars excluding sahashara 

Elatrians

Feruchemists

Kandra with one spike

Sleepless

anyone bonded to yelig-nar who can control the power

Warform singers

Anyone in shardlate

While Dalinar is dangerous, he isn't immortal. As a fused he shouldn't be too difficult to kill with anti voidlight. The coalition already has raysium dangers.

 

lmfao ok dude

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

 

I would argue that Dalinar is more powerful than even the Lord Ruler.  

I don’t think so... 

Dalinar isn’t very strong at all on a pure power level. Sure he is a good support but on a one on one a steel compounder will destroy

And the Lord Ruler can Compound everything 

(unless are you talking about how since he can open a perpendicularlity this gives him the most raw investiture)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

I don’t think so... 

Dalinar isn’t very strong at all on a pure power level. Sure he is a good support but on a one on one a steel compounder will destroy

And the Lord Ruler can Compound everything 

(unless are you talking about how since he can open a perpendicularlity this gives him the most raw investiture)

I don't understand... You say he isn't strong at all on a pure power level, yet you realize he has the most raw investiture?  

 

Dalinar can theoretically manipulate, create, steal, and destroy Connection.  If he went up against an Allomancer, it would be a piece of cake.  Remove their Connection to Preservation and boom, no more Allomancy.  Remember what Ishar did in RoW?  He literally Connected like 5 different Windrunners to the ground, forcing their Investiture out of them.  Dalinar has the power of literal gods.  Bondsmithing is by far the most powerful Invested Art that we know of so far in the Cosmere.

 

Not to mention he has Stormlight healing, making him basically invincible with enough Stormlight, which he has a unlimited source of with Honor's perp. 

Edited by Ba-Ado-Fisherman
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rashek can’t he touched and therefore cannot be killed

He can also attack from afar, and Dalinar opening a Perpendicularity will drain and exhaust him

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, Green chicken said:

Plenty of people can defeat Dalinar in a fight, here are just some examples:

Irrelevant, Dalinar is a Boundsmith his true strength is not about fighting

8 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

If he went up against an Allomancer, it would be a piece of cake.  Remove their Connection to Preservation and boom, no more Allomancy.

Not sure that would work, the connection that Connection is written in their sDNA so you'd probably have to work harder than for the Connection between a human and a Spren. But after what Navani did too Moash's Identity I can't really call that completely impossible

1 hour ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Rashek can’t he touched and therefore cannot be killed

He can also attack from afar, and Dalinar opening a Perpendicularity will drain and exhaust him

Then how did Rashek die?

Rashek was a terrible Fullborn, if you want to use one as an example take Kelsier

Edited by mathiau
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, mathiau said:

Not sure that would work, the connection that Connection is written in their sDNA so you'd probably have to work harder than for the Connection between a human and a Spren. But after what Navani did too Moash's Identity I can't really call that completely impossible

Yeah I'm making assumptions about what Dalinar can and can't do.  Before Tanavast died, I would say that it'd be impossible, but now that Dalinar is a Bondsmith without restrictions, and is bonded to the remnants of Honor, I think at least on some level he manipulate Connection in the same way Tanavast could.

8 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Rashek can’t he touched and therefore cannot be killed

He can also attack from afar, and Dalinar opening a Perpendicularity will drain and exhaust him

 

If Rashek can't be touched, then how did Kelsier stab him with multiple spears, and how did Vin kill him?  Fullborns are immensely powerful, and right now, in a 1v1 fight to the death with Dalinar, I'd take the Lord Ruler.  However, that doesn't make Fullborns more powerful.  Dalinar literally Ascended, whatever that means.  He actually scared Odium, a Shard that has murdered multiple gods.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

Yeah I'm making assumptions about what Dalinar can and can't do.  Before Tanavast died, I would say that it'd be impossible, but now that Dalinar is a Bondsmith without restrictions, and is bonded to the remnants of Honor, I think at least on some level he manipulate Connection in the same way Tanavast could.

Which is basicaly my point, I don't think Tanavast can remove one's Allomancy

2 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

If Rashek can't be touched, then how did Kelsier stab him with multiple spears, and how did Vin kill him?  Fullborns are immensely powerful, and right now, in a 1v1 fight to the death with Dalinar, I'd take the Lord Ruler.  However, that doesn't make Fullborns more powerful.  Dalinar literally Ascended, whatever that means.  He actually scared Odium, a Shard that has murdered multiple gods.

REMOVED BY MODERATOR. 

Dalinar ascending probably means he touched enough of Honour's power to become a Sliver

Edited by LadyLameness
Removed escalatory comment
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are so many things that can happen to the Highstorm and the Stormfather. You can destroy or stop the storm, and the continent of Roshar will be washed away after a time. You can kill the Stormfather or unmake the Stormfather and disrupt the distribution of Light. 

A lot of possibilities and some of them can happen in the beginning and fixed or mitigated by the end.  And after RoW and Dawnshard, I gave up on trying to guess Brandon's plot twists. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

If Rashek can't be touched, then how did Kelsier stab him with multiple spears, and how did Vin kill him?  Fullborns are immensely powerful, and right now, in a 1v1 fight to the death with Dalinar, I'd take the Lord Ruler.  However, that doesn't make Fullborns more powerful.  Dalinar literally Ascended, whatever that means.  He actually scared Odium, a Shard that has murdered multiple gods.

Vin got lucky plains and simple

If Rashek thought she could hurt him in any way he would have destroyed her

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Vin got lucky plains and simple

If Rashek thought she could hurt him in any way he would have destroyed her

The classic "pride before the fall"

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.