Possible Dawnshard connection in tWoK

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

I'm currently rereading tWoK, and came across an interesting passage in an early Shallan chapter.

 

“For a few extended moments, Shallan was back in that hallway again, watching something that should not be: a heretic wielding one of the most sacred powers in all the world. The power of change itself, the power by which the Almighty had created Roshar. He had another name, allowed to pass only the lips of ardents. Elithanathile. He Who Transforms.”

 

It could definitely be coincidence, but "the power of change itself" seems too spot on as a description of the Change Dawnshard.  "The power by which the Almighty had created Roshar".  Now, we know that Roshar was created by Adonalsium, not Honor, but we also know that the Dawnshards were used in the creation of all things.  

 

Also, we now know that Soulcasters originated in Aimia, the location of the Change Dawnshard.  Is it possible that the Dawnshard was used in the creation of these fabrials?  It sort of makes sense, seeing as Soulcasters "change" a substance into something else entirely.  

 

Now, this could simply be one of the ten aspects of the Almighty, relating to the Surge of Transformation, not the Change Dawnshard, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Ba-Ado-Fisherman
misspelled a word

[Aspiring Writer]

7 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

I'm currently rereading tWoK, and came across an interesting passage in an early Shallan chapter.

 

“For a few extended moments, Shallan was back in that hallway again, watching something that should not be: a heretic wielding one of the most sacred powers in all the world. The power of change itself, the power by which the Almighty had created Roshar. He had another name, allowed to pass only the lips of ardents. Elithanathile. He Who Transforms.”

 

It could definitely be coincidence, but "the power of change itself" seems too spot on as a description of the Change Dawnshard.  "The power by which the Almighty had created Roshar".  Now, we know that Roshar was created by Adonalsium, not Honor, but we also know that the Dawnshards were used in the creation of all things.  

 

Also, we now know that Soulcasters originated in Aimia, the location of the Change Dawnshard.  Is it possible that the Dawnshard was used in the creation of these fabrials?  It sort of makes sense, seeing as Soulcasters "change" a substance into something else entirely.  

 

Now, this could simply be one of the ten aspects of the Almighty, relating to the Surge of Transformation, not the Change Dawnshard, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

I think that's just referencing the holy version of the Almighties name.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

9 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

Also, we now know that Soulcasters originated in Aimia, the location of the Change Dawnshard.  Is it possible that the Dawnshard was used in the creation of these fabrials?  It sort of makes sense, seeing as Soulcasters "change" a substance into something else entirely.  

Honestly, I'm sort of curious why a specific origin location for them is even needed. Could they not just manifest elsewhere???

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Honestly, I'm sort of curious why a specific origin location for them is even needed. Could they not just manifest elsewhere???

It's crazy how much we don't know after millions of words on Roshar.

[Jofwu]

21 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

Also, we now know that Soulcasters originated in Aimia, the location of the Change Dawnshard.  Is it possible that the Dawnshard was used in the creation of these fabrials?

Yeah, I've wondered the same thing. There's been a pretty big emphasis that Soulcasters came from Aimia, and it feels like no coincidence that the Dawnshard was there.

It's a BIT odd, considering the nature of Soulcasters doesn't feel different from other ancient fabrials. And I don't think it makes sense to figure the Dawnshard was used to create all fabrials.

Maaaaybe there's something special about Soulcasters that needed it though?

[ElMonoEstupendo]

We know Soulcasters are spren that chose to manifest - Raboniel tells Navani as much.

There seems to be two ways of manifesting spren as items - either (A) as a Radiant Shardblade or (B) by some unexplained method of convincing them to permanently manifest. A and B might be the same thing. Kaladin and Syl talk about turning into more than weapons, and the Sibling mentions B when rebuking Navani about capturing spren.

Perhaps Soulcasters are the tools manifested by high-Ideal Elsecallers or Lightweavers. Have we seen an active Radiant touch one? Did they scream like Shardblades? If not then it'll be Option B. Do we know if Akinah or Aimia in general was home to a specific order of Knights?

[TheCruelSadist]

On 5/3/2021 at 2:31 PM, ElMonoEstupendo said:

We know Soulcasters are spren that chose to manifest - Raboniel tells Navani as much.

There seems to be two ways of manifesting spren as items - either (A) as a Radiant Shardblade or (B) by some unexplained method of convincing them to permanently manifest. A and B might be the same thing. Kaladin and Syl talk about turning into more than weapons, and the Sibling mentions B when rebuking Navani about capturing spren.

Perhaps Soulcasters are the tools manifested by high-Ideal Elsecallers or Lightweavers. Have we seen an active Radiant touch one? Did they scream like Shardblades? If not then it'll be Option B. Do we know if Akinah or Aimia in general was home to a specific order of Knights?

Not necessarily, they may be non-sapient spren like Plate.  IIRC, Navani is literally the only viewpoint character we know has handled a real Soulcaster, but that was before she was invested.  Furthermore, even if they are dead sapient spren, do they still scream if they've begun to heal?  I don't believe we've seen a Radiant touch Maya, but it's plausible that the Soulcasters have unwittingly been healing the dead spren (brb, rereading Kaza's interlude...welp, there's nothing obvious there) the same way Adolin is healing Maya, and once the process reaches a point, they stop screaming.  We've already seen Oathbringer respond to Dalinar's honor, but do we know whether it screams or just whimpers for other Radiants?  I assume it only whimpers for Rock because I don't remember Brandon saying otherwise but seriously, there's soooooo much that we can only guess about.  Honestly, it kinda bugs me when people extrapolate things based on a single point of data.  Brandon LOVES to give us outliers for our first look at something, then people assume "what you see is what you get" and end up nowhere near the truth.  Pre-Oathbringer, the Coppermind declared that all Shardplate was either blue or tan, full stop lol

That all said, though, IDK if I'll be able to suspend my disbelief if Brandon says that Soulcasters scream, because there's literally no way that Lift hasn't poked one to find out.  Not unless we get a PoV from Lift where everyone discovers it and her reaction is "wait, you guys didn't just start poking everything in sight the moment things started screaming at you?"  I just can't buy that we've gone this long without a single character thinking "touch it and find out", especially when so many have access to them, which would make Soulcaster spren either non-sapient or healing.

[+En-priestess]

Perhaps spren travelled to Akinah in the past when they were willing to manifest as soulcasters, and the Change Dawnshard was used to make this transformation happen?
 

That would make sense to me, in the way that it’s not just a simple process where a spren could go poof and become a soulcaster on a whim. Also would explain why there was a cache of soulcasters there. And generally the fact that the Dawnshard is CHANGE and what the spren are doing is changing from one form to another, and their purpose as a soulcaster is to change things. (Perhaps they are imbued with a bit of that Change Command and that’s why they have this function)?

EDIT

I’m guessing the spren could also return to Akinah (or have someone take the soulcaster there) when they wanted to be changed back into their spren form by the Change Dawnshard. But since the Dawnshard was hidden away, this hasn’t been possible and the spren have been trapped as soulcasters since.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Kahlani

[Serack]

On 5/3/2021 at 5:31 PM, ElMonoEstupendo said:

We know Soulcasters are spren that chose to manifest - Raboniel tells Navani as much.

There seems to be two ways of manifesting spren as items - either (A) as a Radiant Shardblade or (B) by some unexplained method of convincing them to permanently manifest. A and B might be the same thing. Kaladin and Syl talk about turning into more than weapons, and the Sibling mentions B when rebuking Navani about capturing spren.

Perhaps Soulcasters are the tools manifested by high-Ideal Elsecallers or Lightweavers. Have we seen an active Radiant touch one? Did they scream like Shardblades? If not then it'll be Option B. Do we know if Akinah or Aimia in general was home to a specific order of Knights?

I'll point out that a Regrown Fabrial was used by a Radiant in the Midnight Essence vision in tWoK.   As it held gemstones, and the knight later used a sword in a fight, I doubt it was the knight's radiant spren.  

[Isilel]

On 3 May 2021 at 11:31 PM, ElMonoEstupendo said:

Perhaps Soulcasters are the tools manifested by high-Ideal Elsecallers or Lightweavers. Have we seen an active Radiant touch one? Did they scream like Shardblades?

Maybe some Elsecallers and Lightweavers and their spren decided to transform the spren into soulcasters as an alternative to the Recreance? After seeing the havoc that the deadblades unleashed upon the world and wanting to leave behind something useful for peaceful endeavors instead. BTW, unlike the healing fabrials the soulcasters don't appear in Dalinar's visions, so it is entirely possible that they didn't exist before the fall of the Radiants. 

The soulcaster spren don't look like deadeyes and seem to be sleeping, so I wouldn't expect any screaming even if a Radiant touches them. 

[Honorless]

Soulcasters are a fair bit more esoteric than almost all other fabrials we've seen so far, aside from the Regrowth fabrial perhaps and whatever fabrial made Aimia inhabitable. Ancient fabrials were all spren manifesting but even the complex fabrials of the Tower manifested by the Sibling were more mechanical in nature, from Navani's impressions near the end of RoW. I'll say there's definitely a Command involved to Change the mind or spren of the object being Soulcast. It might be that the Dawnshard itself was not involved in the creation of the Soulcasters but served as inspiration, like how the spren copied the powers of the Heralds' Honorblades.

[apepi]

On 5/3/2021 at 4:31 PM, ElMonoEstupendo said:

We know Soulcasters are spren that chose to manifest - Raboniel tells Navani as much.

There seems to be two ways of manifesting spren as items - either (A) as a Radiant Shardblade or (B) by some unexplained method of convincing them to permanently manifest. A and B might be the same thing. Kaladin and Syl talk about turning into more than weapons, and the Sibling mentions B when rebuking Navani about capturing spren.

Perhaps Soulcasters are the tools manifested by high-Ideal Elsecallers or Lightweavers. Have we seen an active Radiant touch one? Did they scream like Shardblades? If not then it'll be Option B. Do we know if Akinah or Aimia in general was home to a specific order of Knights?

I might be confusing myself or mis remembering, but don't we learn some of the Lift's in Urithru are spren who chose to manifest as fabrials to be in the physical realm? Like spren want to be in the physical realm?

 

I feel like there was something like this in the book, can someone help remind me or am I crazy?