Pulling Shardblades/Plates into Cognitive Realm

[therunner]

So, getting Shardblade or Shardplate into Cognitive Realm is not possible, even deadplate and deadblade do not transfer, with deadblade appearing as Deadeye spren, etc.

However, Ishar's experiments prove that there is a way to force a spren to manifest in Physical Realm in their Cognitive 'form', even though they cannot go into the Physical realm on their own. I theorize that it could be possible to do the inverse, force a spren manifested as plate or blade into the Cognitive while in this form. Since deadeyes vanish in CR when summoned, this hints that while in plate/blade form the spren is fully in Physical Realm, hence it might be possible to force them into Cognitive in plate/blade form. It might work better with deadblades and deadspren though, but in principle I think it should work.

Of course we know very little of how Ishar achieved his macabre results, so this theory might be completely off base and the process would most likely be quite horrific.

Edited May 2, 2021 by therunner
spelling, one clarification

[Frustration]

Might be a fifth ideal thing

[+Bzhydack]

36 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Might be a fifth ideal thing

No way. Stormfather would know it is possible, and he tells us strictly - what Ishar is doing should be impossible. This tells me there was no easy way to do full transfer of spren in cognitive form to Physical Realm and in Physical Form (Blade/Plate) to Cognitive. And there where Radiant who reaches 5th Ideal.

No, it has to be something more than just 5th Oath.

[ScadrianTank]

I'm sure you can make spren manifest as blades and plate in Shadesmar with enough trickery. Sooner or later, Rosharans would have to figure out a way to make fabrials that work in the Cognitive Realm, or all their technology will be useless there. 

Not sure how I feel about removing one of the largest flaws of Rosharan magic, though. 

[HSuperLee]

1 hour ago, ScadrianTank said:

I'm sure you can make spren manifest as blades and plate in Shadesmar with enough trickery. Sooner or later, Rosharans would have to figure out a way to make fabrials that work in the Cognitive Realm, or all their technology will be useless there. 

Not sure how I feel about removing one of the largest flaws of Rosharan magic, though. 

Are we so certain that they would eventually have to figure that out? Isn't it possible that will just be a limit to them all the way to Era 4, like how Scadrians don't have any ability that we know of to traverse realms without a natural perpendicularity? We've been told there will be a lot of cross-pollination with tech later on, so I could see Rosharans having to use mundane tech in the Cognitive Realm simply because their fabrials don't work there.

[therunner]

11 hours ago, HSuperLee said:

Are we so certain that they would eventually have to figure that out? Isn't it possible that will just be a limit to them all the way to Era 4, like how Scadrians don't have any ability that we know of to traverse realms without a natural perpendicularity? We've been told there will be a lot of cross-pollination with tech later on, so I could see Rosharans having to use mundane tech in the Cognitive Realm simply because their fabrials don't work there.

Well, since it is possible to forcibly pull them one way (and have them maintain form from different realm) why not in the other?

I do expect that the limitation on Shardblades/Plates in CR will mostly hold, with only very un-ethical people forcibly pulling them inside the CR in blade form (and possibly only with deadplates). However, I think that at least some fabrials will work in Cognitive Realm. There seems to be a difference between surge fabrials and regular fabrials, and i think that will lead to regular fabrials being usable in CR (or some subset of them).

[IAmTheStick]

I think that Ishar was probably able to do this because of all the unknowns related to being a "bondsmith unchained." I mean, if he can steal Dalinar's bond to the stormfather, create an undetectable perpendicularity, and Connect windrunners to Roshar, why can't he Connect spren to the physical realm? (Obviously it's probably a little more complicated than that, and he's probably had a looong time to figure things out)