Ruminations on Lightweavers and Cryptics

[TheWanderer]

So, I may be coming to this a bit late. However, I cannot sleep and find my mind wandering. Like so many of us here on the 17th shard i took the official radiant quiz. To my immense surprise I got lightweaver as my top result. Thus, due to a slightly narcissistic curiosity I decided to research them more. 

While the official descriptions brandon gave are great. I must confess still find myself wondering about the character of prospective lightweavers. Sure many are artists and the spren are drawn to those who deceive themselves. Yet, we see soldiers, prostitutes, artists, and a spy join as well. Some of whom seem to have no artistic inclinations. So I guess I'm curious if someone can help me discern the greater truth as to what makes a lightweaver. Furthermore, what else draws a cryptic to bond them beyond a propensity for self delusion?

What traits truly make one a good fit for the order? 

afterword

thank you all for reading and engaging in advance. I appreciate your thoughts and your indulgence of my inquiry.

Edited April 29, 2021 by TheWanderer

[Harkain]

Imo, I've always thought of Lightweavers as people going through a process of self-discovery. While most people might reach an a belief about themselves and settle on it Lightweavers are all about aggressively undergoing that process of introspection. From what I've seen their truths are always about trying to define themselves in some way. So sorta an inverse of a Truthwatcher.

Truthwatchers are all about figuring out the truth in the world. Lightweavers on the other hand are about trying to find the truth of who they are. What defines them, whether that be emotions, events or just general characteristics. 

Sorta going on about stuff I've posted elsewhere in my opinion that would sorta conclude with a final truth that a Lightweaver can't really define themselves with emotions, labels or events. I can really imagine a "we are shallan" moment for her final truth being really cool.

[+mdross81]

1 hour ago, Harkain said:

I can really imagine a "we are shallan" moment for her final truth being really cool.

Now I’m imagining Shallan and a bunch of Stormlight illusions of her singing a big cheesy pop ballad “We Are Shallan” set to the tune of “We Are the  World”

[Harkain]

2 hours ago, mdross81 said:

Now I’m imagining Shallan and a bunch of Stormlight illusions of her singing a big cheesy pop ballad “We Are Shallan” set to the tune of “We Are the  World”

Honestly at this point if this isn't how the contest of champions ends I'm gonna be disappointed. 

[TheWanderer]

Interesting insights. Definitely agree on their journey of self discovery. Also read something interesting stating that the lightweavers were all about showing others what they could be (Shallan and the bandits for example). 

[TheWanderer]

Overall, I'm merely trying to find more of the criteria cryptic spren might have looking for someone to bond. To put it more humorously, I'm attempting to understand the greater will of brandon.

Which hilariously seems to entail me doing the very introspection the order would be known for.

Edited April 29, 2021 by TheWanderer

[Karger]

Cryptics are a highly exact spren that can easily parse the most complex of patterns.  Anything that can easily be reduced to numbers is easily understood by them without any real effort.  They are like refined computer programs that can copy and quickly reduce any information to its simplest form.  What interests them is information that does not reduce that easily.  The illogical kind of thinking that humans take as ordinary.  Sociological phenomena like hand shaking, conversational norms, arrogance, self delusions.  We take all of these as normal but try explaining them in mathematical terms and you get a comedy rather then an explanation.  Cryptics are interested in people who try and change rather then solve problems or have a high interest in perspective.

[TheWanderer]

On 5/6/2021 at 2:15 PM, Karger said:

Cryptics are a highly exact spren that can easily parse the most complex of patterns.  Anything that can easily be reduced to numbers is easily understood by them without any real effort.  They are like refined computer programs that can copy and quickly reduce any information to its simplest form.  What interests them is information that does not reduce that easily.  The illogical kind of thinking that humans take as ordinary.  Sociological phenomena like hand shaking, conversational norms, arrogance, self delusions.  We take all of these as normal but try explaining them in mathematical terms and you get a comedy rather then an explanation.  Cryptics are interested in people who try and change rather then solve problems or have a high interest in perspective.

A fascinating analysis. So beyond simple change and an interest in perspective how would you (or anyone else) define the quintessential lightweaver? Also I do apologize for the delay on responding. 

[Karger]

10 hours ago, TheWanderer said:

A fascinating analysis. So beyond simple change and an interest in perspective how would you (or anyone else) define the quintessential lightweaver? Also I do apologize for the delay on responding. 

Lightweavers are not defined.  That is kind of the point.  We are infinitely variable or at least act like we are.  This tends to make us unreliable but also allows us a kind of adaptation most other people can't quite crack.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Karger

[TheWanderer]

23 hours ago, Karger said:

Lightweavers are not defined.  That is kind of the point.  We are infinitely variable or at least act like we are.  This tends to make us unreliable but also allows us a kind of adaptation most other people can't quite crack.

Interesting, if a tad infuriating when trying to figure out what about me this quiz seemed to think indicated I would make a good lightweaver. Regardless, thank you for your input.

[Halyo_Alex]

2 hours ago, TheWanderer said:

Interesting, if a tad infuriating when trying to figure out what about me this quiz seemed to think indicated I would make a good lightweaver. Regardless, thank you for your input.

Being passionate about a form of art seems to be an underlying theme, to be sure.

...Wait, passionate?

[Karger]

7 hours ago, TheWanderer said:

Interesting, if a tad infuriating when trying to figure out what about me this quiz seemed to think indicated I would make a good lightweaver. Regardless, thank you for your input.

If you have rollplayed then you might have encountered people who really can't get into the mindset and people who go overboard.  The later quality is a good indication of a Lightweaver aptitude.

[TheWanderer]

11 hours ago, Karger said:

If you have rollplayed then you might have encountered people who really can't get into the mindset and people who go overboard.  The later quality is a good indication of a Lightweaver aptitude.

Given I DM games I have definitely seen this be a struggle for people. Very apt observation.

[Halyo_Alex]

11 hours ago, Karger said:

If you have rollplayed then you might have encountered people who really can't get into the mindset and people who go overboard.  The later quality is a good indication of a Lightweaver aptitude.

...I mayyyyy be guilty of that.

Fitting, I suppose.

[TheWanderer]

45 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

...I mayyyyy be guilty of that.

Fitting, I suppose.

I just do all the silly voices and accents. Along with trying really hard to weave in backstory ties that players provide me. 

[Karger]

48 minutes ago, TheWanderer said:

Given I DM games I have definitely seen this be a struggle for people. Very apt observation.

More like experience actually.  Generally the most cooperative group is probably one made of Truthwatchers but you will find that Lightweaver's are the most enthusiastic.

Just now, TheWanderer said:

I just do all the silly voices and accents. Along with trying really hard to weave in backstory ties that players provide me. 

Staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaares.  Are you my DM?

[Halyo_Alex]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

Generally the most cooperative group is probably one made of Truthwatchers but you will find that Lightweaver's are the most enthusiastic.

I kinda want a list of what Orders would be likely to do what in a TTRPG campaign now.

[Karger]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:38 AM, Halyo_Alex said:

I kinda want a list of what Orders would be likely to do what in a TTRPG campaign now.

Windrunners.  Likely to play a tank or support class.  Probably brought in by a friend.  Will be committed to letting everyone enjoy themselves.

Skybreakers.  Watch these guys for min maxing and rules lawyering.  Will treat the game like a competitive sport.

Dustbringers.  Glass cannon or front line fighter.  Watch these ones for burning themselves out or drawing the party into conflicts needlessly.

Edgedancer.  There is always one in the group.  Will generally play healer or bard.  Will spend as much time as possible taking in or interacting with companion creatures and other freinds.

Truthwatcher.  Cooperative and interested in the game.  Will likely focus on exploration and information gathering.

Lightweaver.  Takes their character to its logical extreme.  They will also probably start off giving their character a personality that is fairly extreme to begin with.

Elsecaller.  Also a potential min maxer.  Will spend every waking moment outsmarting the DM or powering through the plot.

Willshaper.  Similar in some respects to the Edgedancer and Truthwatcher but will instead try and "break the game" by forcing the DM into paradoxical ruling.

Stoneward.   Same as Windrunner but less likely to play as a spellacaster.

Bondsmith.  Will try and keep the players in line.  Additionally they are likely to add NPCs as party members.

This is my read anyway.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Karger

[TheWanderer]

44 minutes ago, Karger said:

More like experience actually.  Generally the most cooperative group is probably one made of Truthwatchers but you will find that Lightweaver's are the most enthusiastic.

Staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaares.  Are you my DM?

I understand these things I do are a rarity but doubtful. I am also well regarded for really fleshing out npcs in games and giving them each backstories, hobbies, and images (I can't draw so I scavenge on pintrest or make them with artbreeder).
Also I doubt it as none of my players like the cosmere (heathens...), and I tried and failed to get them to play mistborn. I had worked out the entire set up of the great houses and the political field with the plan to go through each era of mistborn.

Edited May 23, 2021 by TheWanderer

[TheWanderer]

25 minutes ago, Karger said:

Windrunners.  Likely to play a tank or support class.  Probably brought in by a friend.  Will be committed to letting everyone enjoy themselves.

Skybreakers.  Watch these guys for min maxing and rules lawyering.  Will treat the game like a competitive sport.

Dustbringers.  Glass cannon or front line fighter.  Watch these ones for burning themselves out or drawing the party into conflicts needlessly.

Edgedancer.  There is always one in the group.  Will generally play healer or bard.  Will spend as much time as possible taking in or interacting with companion creatures and other freinds.

Truthwatcher.  Cooperative and interested in the game.  Will likely focus on exploration and information gathering.

Lightweaver.  Takes their character to its logical extreme.  They will also probably start off giving their character a personality that is fairly extreme to begin with.

Elsecaller.  Also a potential min maxer.  Will spend every waking moment outsmarting the DM or powering through the plot.

Willshaper.  Similar in some respects to the Edgedancer and Truthwatcher but will instead try and "break the game" by forcing the DM into paradoxical ruling.

Stoneward.   Same as Windrunner but less likely to play as a spellacaster.

Bondsmith.  Will try and keep the players in line.  Additionally they are likely to add NPCs as party members.

This is my read anyway.

I am a party filler at heart, but if given a choice in D&D I always want to play a wizard (my exandria one had a 10 page backstory with npcs+their relationships, an abridged section for story hooks, appearance, personality, and I debated doing a separate backstory for those important npcs). My preferred mmo build is solo with a mix of martial and magic (I love my gish builds). I also tend to come up with insane uses for spells and powers in games that can be somewhat game breaking.

[Bremen]

On 4/29/2021 at 10:28 AM, TheWanderer said:

Overall, I'm merely trying to find more of the criteria cryptic spren might have looking for someone to bond.

 

In one of Dalinar's visions Nohadon remarks that not all spren are as picky as Honorspren. Given the variety of people who become Lightweavers I feel it is rather likely that Cryptics are the least picky. They want to understand humans, and all humans are basically incomprehensible to them.

[TheWanderer]

17 minutes ago, Bremen said:

In one of Dalinar's visions Nohadon remarks that not all spren are as picky as Honorspren. Given the variety of people who become Lightweavers I feel it is rather likely that Cryptics are the least picky. They want to understand humans, and all humans are basically incomprehensible to them.

That is fair. Irritating, but fair. Just wanted to see what about me makes this result make sense.

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, Bremen said:

In one of Dalinar's visions Nohadon remarks that not all spren are as picky as Honorspren

He said discerning actually.  Honorspren like Syl may be odd but they are actually pretty good at keeping abreast of human feelings and asking the right questions about them.  As we have seen with some of Pattern's actions Cryptics are not nearly as good in that department.

[City of Sauronicon]

Hi, I'm new, this is my first post. But I really love cryptics. I hope my take on them is cool enough to post with you cool kids. 

I've always considered cryptics to basically be fractals in nature. If you're unfamiliar with a fractal, it's a mathematical formula, or a pattern, that repeats over and over, getting smaller and smaller but staying the same ratio. We see this in a lot of natural structures.  

Just do a Google image search "fractals in nature" to see what I mean. Pattern even looks like a fractal in the PR.

Next google "fractal tree" and check out the majority of those images. You'll notice that they're all very symmetrical, very formulaic. It's got an artificial quality to it. While it does represent the branching structure of trees, is not a natural shape. The difference? Deviations. 

I think that there's the crux of it. What would entice the cognizant manifestation of patterns in nature more than deviations from it? 

Shallan has the eye of an artist. As an artist myself, I have used math to balance my work before but usually I can just eyeball it and it turns out better. Sometimes, if you rely on math too much, something is...off. You have to add something over here, and balance it with something over there. There's movement and flow, or it doesn't work. Too much math isn't natural (or it's too boring!), and you have to just have an eye for it to represent it correctly/interestingly. It's fundamentally deviant, and that's what gives it beauty. 

IMO Lightweavers can see beyond the patterns/rules(/oaths?) of nature and see how things can deviate. I think they embody an interesting relationship between Honor and Cultivation. When you consider the natural world and how deviations drive everything from structure of form (like trees) to evolution itself, it's no surprise our example character's calling isn't art itself, but natural history. 

There's also Shallan's striking but subtle ability to look beyond the patterns of people and see *more,* like with Bluth. Self portraits are really hard btw, and I imagine what Shallan is doing with her oaths is essentially that. 

As a final note, I'm personally a firm believer that EVERYONE is an artist in some way and it's a part of human nature (which is maybe why cryptics are less "discerning"). Most people just never recognize their medium as art, or even find it to begin with. Or they chicken out, they never practice and get better at it, and that creative muscle atrophies in a way where it's expression is less obvious. But that's why you have such a wide berth of different Lightweaver characters who are tapped into it a bit more and why you have answers above about there not being a "quintessential" Lightweaver. We all see the world a little differently, and best part is that it's unique. So, aspiring Lightweavers, go find your medium and your own artist's eye! Plant a bonsai, cook a meal, run a d&d campaign! Be brave and be deviant! 

Edited May 27, 2021 by City of Sauronicon
Missed some grammar

[Halyo_Alex]

9 hours ago, City of Sauronicon said:

run a d&d campaign!

Duuuuude... Actually imagine a Lightweaver DM though! Lightwoven maps and battle scenes! That would be SO cool!