29 posts in this topic

QF52 Aftermath: Ending Feuds, Avenging Lies

The moment did not last long.

"I believe Illona is the culprit," said Zilla, quickly pointing a finger as the remaining guests skirted around the pools of blood on the floor. This was really not turning into a good ball, was it.

Several people in the crowd nodded their heads. Roko. Xino. Kiel. Pizza. There was little discussion... Lord Ruler, there was barely an accusation. Just many pointing fingers. Too many, actually. If Hasting's numbers were right, there were too many infiltrators here for this to be all good-natured.

Illona quickly figured out as much. "Please! I know you've all no reason to trust me, but this is too much!" But the rest of her pleading fell on deaf ears. Hasting knew where this was going. So he stood from his chair and gave a dismissive wave, and the five accusers began to drag Illona out the front door. Roko was the one to give the final push, barring the door.

"Well," Kiel said. "That went easier than I-"

His words cut off as Zilla's knife found his throat. Coins began flying out from Roko's pockets at the survivors, and Xino... Xino ran up to the third floor. Blast, he'd find the atium. But there was nothing that Hasting could do about that.

He ran. The keep was lost. If Elariel could get this far with three, they'd have more waiting, and House Hasting had no intention of dying tonight.

Unfortunately, intent alone can't accomplish much. Something hit him in the leg. One of Roko's coins. 

"You know... I know you didn't kill Shan," it said, stepping closer as it started swirling metal around i's fingers. "It couldn't have been you. But this... this was an opportunity. Another revenge."

Hasting simply closed his eyes.


Illwei was uninvited! They were a Hasting Host!

Bridge-Four was killed! They were a Hasting Host!

The Elariel Eliminators have won the game! Congratulations to @Gears, @Tani, and @xinoehp512!

 

Final Vote Count:

  • Illwei (5): Gears, Tani, xinoehp512, Bridge-Four, PizzaPower55
  • Jondesu (1): Illwei
  • Gears (1): Jondesu

 

This was a very interesting game! Thank you @Lotus and @Araris Valerian for helping me get this game up and running despite busy schedules all around! I'll post more GM thoughts shortly.

Eliminator Doc

Dead Doc

Master Spreadsheet

 

Player List:

Spoiler
  1. Matrim's Dice - Philico - Hasting Host
  2. Liranil - Hasting Host
  3. Quintessential - Tesse Mourn - Hasting Host
  4. Gears - Roko the Basilisk [ASPECT: VIN] - Elariel Eliminator
  5. Tani - Zilla - Elariel Eliminator
  6. The Unknown Order - High Prelan Troll(ten) - Hasting Host
  7. Archer - Sisar - Hasting Host
  8. Jondesu - Remart - Hasting Host
  9. Dannex - Hasting Host 
  10. Illwei - Illona - Hasting Host
  11. xinoehp512 - Elariel Eliminator
  12. Bridge-Four - Kiel - Hasting Host
  13. Kings Way - Varian Lithel - Hasting Host
  14. PizzaPower55 - Hasting Host

 

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Posted (edited)

eh ggs. 

I was right about Tani, my streak technically stays alive :P. 

I was also right that Xino was a safe kill but by that time it was like- idk. 

I was split on gears in the end because he seemed to be effort posting and I saw no reason for an Elim to do that, but his attacks on me were kinda hm at the same time. 

anyways, hindsight 20/20, I'm glad everyone else was as lost this game as I was lmao

EDIT:

lmao, there is is, reading the elim doc. I was thinking that Gears made more sense to be an Elim if he had PMd Quinn, but I had no way of knowing :P. 

Edited by Illwei
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...Well that was a quick game

Um. Well, the elims will probably get a good laugh from the dead doc seeing as my final elim team prediction was Jondesu/Bridge/Pizza. Go figure. Tani and Gears both pocketed me pretty well, nicely done. Ah well, maybe someday I’ll survive another village game :P 

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I died so fast but it was fun! :P This game was way faster than I thought it would be.

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

...Well that was a quick game

Um. Well, the elims will probably get a good laugh from the dead doc seeing as my final elim team prediction was Jondesu/Bridge/Pizza. Go figure. Tani and Gears both pocketed me pretty well, nicely done. Ah well, maybe someday I’ll survive another village game :P 

lol I mean it was only as quick as QF48. But like... jeez the village really stood no chance after you, me, and Archer all died... Also, sorry to both of you : P Archer for arguing so hard against exeing Tani, Mat for voting him... yeah.

But hey, now we know Illwei and I can have a v/v game without thunderdoming, amirite?

Edit: oh yeah, and @Tani no need to feel bad about pocketing me :) I know I said this in our PM, but seriously, no hard feelings

Edited by Quintessential
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My two cents on the PM voting mechanics: Made tracking votes so easy for the GMs because we didn't have to sort through the thread to find all the votes. Honestly I would love it if people had to put votes in PM always....

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Just now, Lotus said:

My two cents on the PM voting mechanics: Made tracking votes so easy for the GMs because we didn't have to sort through the thread to find all the votes. Honestly I would love it if people had to put votes in PM always....

Yeah but it puts the village at a disadvantage. Because the elims can all just vote how they want for XLo... idk, village loses often enough as it is that I don't really like the idea of permanently implementing mechanics that favor the elims : P

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Just now, Quintessential said:

Yeah but it puts the village at a disadvantage. Because the elims can all just vote how they want for XLo... idk, village loses often enough as it is that I don't really like the idea of permanently implementing mechanics that favor the elims : P

Oh yeah totally. My thought was more like, 'huh, I wonder if people could put votes in-thread as well as PMing them directly to the GMs'

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Just now, Lotus said:

Oh yeah totally. My thought was more like, 'huh, I wonder if people could put votes in-thread as well as PMing them directly to the GMs'

Right, but if everyone's required to put their vote in their GM PM in order for it to count, then they can just... not do that, on purpose. Which is what we had here.

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finished reading the docs

Yeah, I know you are Gears (high effort poster), but in you v. Jon, Jondesu made more sense to me if you didn't have a PM with Quinn, something that if you did I would be more thinking E!Gears, V!Jon, but also that if you did, you wouldn't tell me. 

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Just now, Quintessential said:

Right, but if everyone's required to put their vote in their GM PM in order for it to count, then they can just... not do that, on purpose. Which is what we had here.

Mmmm fair point. Perhaps 'please put it in a pm to the gm, if you do not we will backlog and find your most recent vote?'

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11 minutes ago, Illwei said:

eh ggs. 

I was right about Tani, my streak technically stays alive :P. 

I was also right that Xino was a safe kill but by that time it was like- idk. 

I was split on gears in the end because he seemed to be effort posting and I saw no reason for an Elim to do that, but his attacks on me were kinda hm at the same time. 

anyways, hindsight 20/20, I'm glad everyone else was as lost this game as I was lmao

EDIT:

lmao, there is is, reading the elim doc. I was thinking that Gears made more sense to be an Elim if he had PMd Quinn, but I had no way of knowing :P. 

Have an upvote! Good job reading me right! :)

6 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

lol I mean it was only as quick as QF48. But like... jeez the village really stood no chance after you, me, and Archer all died... Also, sorry to both of you : P Archer for arguing so hard against exeing Tani, Mat for voting him... yeah.

But hey, now we know Illwei and I can have a v/v game without thunderdoming, amirite?

Edit: oh yeah, and @Tani no need to feel bad about pocketing me :) I know I said this in our PM, but seriously, no hard feelings

I honestly have no idea how I played that so villagery.

9 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

...Well that was a quick game

Um. Well, the elims will probably get a good laugh from the dead doc seeing as my final elim team prediction was Jondesu/Bridge/Pizza. Go figure. Tani and Gears both pocketed me pretty well, nicely done. Ah well, maybe someday I’ll survive another village game :P 

@Quintessential Did you not tell the dead doc I told you I was elim?

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Dang, we got heccin swept. Gg elims. Time to go read some docs.

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Just now, Tani said:

@Quintessential Did you not tell the dead doc I told you I was elim?

I was waiting for permission from Ash, which I never got.

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4 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

I was waiting for permission from Ash, which I never got.

Sad. :(

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Posted (edited)

GM Thoughts:

  • The anon voting mechanic - honestly I wasn't entirely sure what you guys would do with it. (It's main purpose, in addition to making the game a bit more interesting than a standard vanilla one, was so that I would be able to GM a QF without needing to spend hours trying to catch a current VC xD.) So it turning out that almost every vote was just a 1-to-1 copy of what went on in the thread was... somewhat surprising, but made sense  - especially because someone has enough time to keep track of them all.
    • I think if I do a rerun of this game or a similar mechanic, I'll either make voting fully anonymous without names, or add some vote manipulation abilities that can give more misdirection. That gives the Elims an advantage, but there's ways around that (more PMs, fewer Elims, etc.)
  • I liked having an unspoiled Dead Doc... mainly because the dead were just as lost as the living were, but it was nice to see more chatter in there.
  • Overall, I think the game went well. The Village didn't find any Elims, but like LG74 that's more the skill of the Elims (especially Gears) redirecting the village away (and the luck of getting Archer, Mat, and Quinn out the same turn, which is one result of the anon voting that I'm quite happy with.) There could have been more activity, but on average everyone voted.

 

7 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

I was waiting for permission from Ash, which I never got.

By the time I read it it was ~5 minutes to the end of the game, so I figured that could probably wait :P

 

Edit: I'm not a Kandra anymore :( don't take that as a request to stop upvoting me please

Edited by Ashbringer
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Just now, Ashbringer said:

especially because someone has enough time to keep track of them all.

:) 

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Ugh. I thought rollover was later and didn’t get back in time, but I would have just helped the Elims or been a meaningless vote anyways (I would probably have jumped on the Illwei train and messed us up more). I didn’t figure anything out…

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1 minute ago, Quintessential said:

:) 

Nono, it's pronounced "Who, me?" :innocent_face:

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A question to people: What "felt off" with my kill choices? I don't really understand why everyone thought they were weird.

I would like to talk about pinch-hitters. More specifically, the concerning trend of inactive pinch-hitters. Pinch-hitters are intended to be an active replacement for an inactive person, but the people who tend to sign up for a pinch-hitter position often do so because they are too busy to play the game, which is exactly the opposite demographic we want as a pinch-hitter. The problem is that an active person able to play the game would just... sign up for the game. I don't know if this is a problem that can truly be solved without forcing some people to just not play. 

Just read the dead doc, and I'm glad that the true elim team evaded notice from the deceased even after the collective minds of the masses came together. 

To my teammates: Excellent job. I'm glad we managed to escape without bussing Tani.

Concerning the anon voting mechanic: I would say that it only changed hammering and counterwagon strategies. Both sides want information of what everyone is doing, so being open with information is strictly beneficial until you're trying to meaningfully change the vote.

1 minute ago, Illwei said:

finished reading the docs

Yeah, I know you are Gears (high effort poster), but in you v. Jon, Jondesu made more sense to me if you didn't have a PM with Quinn, something that if you did I would be more thinking E!Gears, V!Jon, but also that if you did, you wouldn't tell me. 

I mean, I was planning on PMing Jondesu before the game since they were returning, and I always find varied perspectives on the game to be interesting. 

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1 minute ago, Gears said:

I would like to talk about pinch-hitters. More specifically, the concerning trend of inactive pinch-hitters. Pinch-hitters are intended to be an active replacement for an inactive person, but the people who tend to sign up for a pinch-hitter position often do so because they are too busy to play the game, which is exactly the opposite demographic we want as a pinch-hitter. The problem is that an active person able to play the game would just... sign up for the game. I don't know if this is a problem that can truly be solved without forcing some people to just not play. 

This.

If there are two games starting at around the same time, I might sign up for one and choose to be a pinch hitter for the other, from now on. (as I said in the dead doc)

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Just now, Gears said:

A question to people: What "felt off" with my kill choices? I don't really understand why everyone thought they were weird.

 

Personally don't think they were wierd, though I guess I thought you killed them for different reasons. Danex and Quinn I assumed were killed because on Mat/Kings flips they looked significantly better. 

1 minute ago, Gears said:

I mean, I was planning on PMing Jondesu before the game since they were returning, and I always find varied perspectives on the game to be interesting. 

I mean it was more the why of the liranil kill D1, but you could have been hoping that Quinn and I would take up the thread arguing as well :P

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Well, that was foreseeable, but the elim team reveal isn't as disappointing as I thought it might be. Mistakes were made, the game went sideways, ah well. 

I feel jokingly validated for sheeping Illwei, even if I'm really sorry how that turned out for you @The Unknown Order. You die early a lot.

Quote

 

To Archer, when all is said and done: I genuinely think your reasoning on Tani is terrible. Even if you found the mark, that was just chance. It’s like LG74!Wei. I don’t care if the individual is an elim or not, that reasoning is too bad to stand. You eliminated so many people from the PoE for no reason, changed what you thought about Tani’s posts, moved Danex from category to category, and so many other issues with this process. I think you are a great player, but on this issue, there is distinct need for improvement. -Gears

On the one hand, you did a good job poking holes in it and made me doubt myself afterwards. But on the other hand, your counter-arguments were in bad faith (being evil and all). In the shoes of a villager, I knew Quinn was good. Same with Mat and Illwei, deep down. I feel like those were generally accepted and I didn't need to rehash it. I also correctly surmised you'd split up your PMs, so even if one of them was evil, there was more elims to hit in the other pool. After C2 everyone in there but Tani and Bridge-Four had two or less posts. Could the elim team have been PizzaPower, Xino, and Jondesu? Sure. If so, did we have any reasonable chance of catching them? No. If there's not someone on the elim team who is responsive and talkative, it's hard to get any of them. So either this was a winnable game or it wasn't, and I decided to proceed as if it was.

My biggest error was I was completely wrong about the NK reasoning. But I stand by my argument that we should have left the potential elim in the high octane pool be until the end and targeted the other people. Unfortunately, Tani received cover from villagers, not frightened elims and we never got close. 

@Bridge-Four Good first game! What was up with the grey text? 

Oh, and GMs, you did swell. I like the dead doc formatting, and the write-ups were good. Overall, it was a nice quick game.

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22 minutes ago, Gears said:

A question to people: What "felt off" with my kill choices? I don't really understand why everyone thought they were weird.

If I had known I would have said in thread :P 

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13 minutes ago, Gears said:

I would like to talk about pinch-hitters. More specifically, the concerning trend of inactive pinch-hitters. Pinch-hitters are intended to be an active replacement for an inactive person, but the people who tend to sign up for a pinch-hitter position often do so because they are too busy to play the game, which is exactly the opposite demographic we want as a pinch-hitter. The problem is that an active person able to play the game would just... sign up for the game. I don't know if this is a problem that can truly be solved without forcing some people to just not play. 

I recently came up with a solution that might kinda fix the entire inactivity problem, but it’s almost definitely too involved to actually happen. it’s a sorta “activity economy”.

Every player starts with an activity score of 10. (Or 20 or 100 or anything really. Really only matters that we all start at the same number.) The more active you are, the score goes up, and the less active you are, the score goes down. Every single game has the potential to alter your score by 1, up or down. The way it’s measured is that the GM sets a “post count par” for their games. The number is not shared with the players. If their final post count at the end of the game exceeds par, they get +1 point, if it’s less, -1. (Par would be adjusted by cycle too, to account for when a player is eliminated. Like, C1 might have a par of 5, and C2 might have a par of 10. Whenever you were killed is the par number you must match.) 
Then the way the system actually helps inactivity is that when GMs are putting up their signup threads, they could set a required Activity Score that you must have in order to sign up. So games that are designed to be more intense and more discussion heavy can be limited to the people we know are going to discuss more.

I don’t know if I really like this solution, it does kinda feel...dictatorial. And just kinda mean. But it is solution. Not that it matters, it’s much too complicated of a system to actually be implemented. But it’s interesting to think about theoretically.

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