Bejarden Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Frustration said: Then why did you say he didn't care? @mathiau brought it up I responded 2 minutes ago, Frustration said: And on top of this how is Odium going to talk to Gavilnor? He's going to be in Urithiru which is now fully functional, Odium has so far only been able to speak to people connected to him and all but maybe once, they where already halfway between realms or in the Everstorm. i assume there will be a way. Maybe there’s a spy in the tower. Maybe Gavinor will go on a walk, details are irrelevant because it’s very possible for Taravangian to reach him if he wants to. He doesn’t need to talk to him personally 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 Just now, Bejardin1250 said: i assume there will be a way. Maybe there’s a spy in the tower. Maybe Gavinor will go on a walk, details are irrelevant because it’s very possible for Taravangian to reach him if he wants to. He doesn’t need to talk to him personally A human spy? the only ones who are on Odium's side will have nowhere hear the amount of influence needed to get close, Gavilnor going on a walk seems far too unlikely. And no it does not seem very possible, not even plausible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 Humans fought on the side of the Enemy a lot. And with the amount of refugees coming in it would be laughabley easy to get into Urithuru undetected. And from there it’s only a small step to get close to Gavinor and his governess and start talking, planting some seeds and cultivating a hatred for Dalinar. Everyone will be extremely busy preparing and he will be practically alone if anyone can do it Taravangian can 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said: Humans fought on the side of the Enemy a lot. All the ethnic groups that are right now will stand out 1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said: And from there it’s only a small step to get close to Gavinor and his governess and start talking, planting some seeds and cultivating a hatred for Dalinar. Everyone will be extremely busy preparing and he will be practically alone if anyone can do it Taravangian can And no one is going to notice? Gavilnor won't say anything? The Sibling won't notice? The Governess won't notice? It's a stretch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 I mean they’ll notice. But with everything going on who cares that someone is talking to Gavinor. I doubt the Governess will take any initiative to stop someone from talking. And there may be ways to stop the Sibling from hearing what’s going on, maybe some arrangements of Aluminum It would make some great part one interludes and some chapters 3 minutes ago, Frustration said: All the ethnic groups that are right now will stand out It’s very possible that a few Alethi will defect. An entire 10th ( probably a lot less now) of Alethkar has some pent up anger and desire for revenge against Dalinar (Sadeas) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: By the time Kaladin flies back to Alethkar after the battle at Thaylen City, Gavinor appears to be three or four years old, with chapped lips, haunted eyes, and is dressed in rags.[1] -Coppermind So he’s probably 5 now or around that age Ok, the "born" line of Gavinor page had a mistake then. I fixed it Quote Calm down. I'm calm, just annoyed Quote So what proof do you have that Dalinar finds a 5 year old to young to fight. He's a good person Quote He can’t be a champion because he won’t be willing, that was the point. Reread what I said you're not answering to what I actually said 26 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: @mathiau brought it up I responded And how about answering the question that was actually asked? Why did you say he didn't care Quote i assume there will be a way. Maybe there’s a spy in the tower. Maybe Gavinor will go on a walk, details are irrelevant because it’s very possible for Taravangian to reach him if he wants to. He doesn’t need to talk to him personally That's a lot of work for something that's not even that much in Taravangian's favour. Taravangian would largely prefer a win to a draw 23 minutes ago, Frustration said: A human spy? the only ones who are on Odium's side will have nowhere hear the amount of influence needed to get close, Gavilnor going on a walk seems far too unlikely. And no it does not seem very possible, not even plausible. Odium could have spies in the tower, Iri people saying they fled from Odium for example. They'd probably not be able to reach Gavinor though 17 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: And from there it’s only a small step to get close to Gavinor and his governess and start talking, planting some seeds and cultivating a hatred for Dalinar. Everyone will be extremely busy preparing and he will be practically alone Gavinor will never be left practically alone he's the heir to a storming kingdom Quote if anyone can do it Taravangian can Before using that kind of argument you have to prove that someone can 15 minutes ago, Frustration said: The Sibling won't notice? Of that list that's the only one who might not notice 9 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: I mean they’ll notice. But with everything going on who cares that someone is talking to Gavinor. I doubt the Governess will take any initiative to stop someone from talking. But she will listen Quote And there may be ways to stop the Sibling from hearing what’s going on, maybe some arrangements of Aluminum Is this a storming joke? If you made something to stop the Sibling to sense a zone -especially one where Gavinor is- he will notice it and send people investigate Edited April 25, 2021 by mathiau 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, mathiau said: Gavinor will never be left practically alone he's the hair to a storming kingdom *heir 3 minutes ago, mathiau said: Of that list that's the only one who might not notice The Sibling seems to be aware of everything that's going on inside the tower. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 Just now, Frustration said: *heir Quote The Sibling seems to be aware of everything that's going on inside the tower. They sense everything, but do they understand everything? Probably 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, mathiau said: He's a good person He’s Alethi their born to fight. And nothing in the contract says the person can’t be underage they only have to understand 6 minutes ago, mathiau said: Gavinor will never be left practically alone he's the hair to a storming kingdom Quote So who’s going to watch him... a governess who can easily be circumvented by a competent spy. 6 minutes ago, mathiau said: Before using that kind of argument you have to prove that someone can Someone can just start talking to him maybe under the pretext of playing or something 6 minutes ago, mathiau said: But she will listen It’s not her job to evesdrop on all his conversations 6 minutes ago, mathiau said: Is this a storming joke? If you made something to stop the Sibling to sense a zone -especially one where Gavinor is- he will notice it and send people investigate Ok fine but I don’t think the Sibling is Omnipresent in his tower. Just he can listen in on specific places unless I’m wrong if he could hear everything he would have known what the Fused were doing to the nodes much sooner. 3 minutes ago, Frustration said: heir I actually didn’t notice this until you pointed it out 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said: So who’s going to watch him... a governess who can easily be circumvented by a competent spy. Someone can just start talking to him maybe under the pretext of playing or something It’s not her job to evesdrop on all his conversations She's in charge of keeping him safe and teaching him, you aren't getting between Mama bear and her cub. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 Just now, Frustration said: She's in charge of keeping him safe and teaching him, you aren't getting between Mama bear and her cub. She’s a babysitter not a mom. She’ll keep an eye out see if he’s trustworthy ( which a spy always seems if he’s good) then he’ll have a innocent conversation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said: She’s a babysitter not a mom. She’ll keep an eye out see if he’s trustworthy ( which a spy always seems if he’s good) then he’ll have a innocent conversation He's the Prince, a random person isn't going to be trusted near him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 Under the watchful eye (but not ears) of a governess they will 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: He’s Alethi their born to fight. Even the Blackthorn sometime spared children, and the current Dalinar hates war, he would not accept using a 5 years in a war Quote And nothing in the contract says the person can’t be underage they only have to understand He can't understand because he's underage. Quote Someone can just start talking to him maybe under the pretext of playing or something No, they just can't Quote It’s not her job to evesdrop on all his conversations She won't need to evesdrop she'll closer to Gavinor that the hypothetical spy cause if she was not she'd not be able to help against would-be assassins Quote Ok fine but I don’t think the Sibling is Omnipresent in his tower. Just he can listen in on specific places unless I’m wrong if he could hear everything he would have known what the Fused were doing to the nodes much sooner. He is Omnipresent in the tower because he is the tower. Now is he omniscient? Maybe not but definitely more than before bounding Navani Quote I actually didn’t notice this until you pointed it out Same, as you can probably tell 1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said: She’s a babysitter not a mom. She’ll keep an eye out see if he’s trustworthy ( which a spy always seems if he’s good) then he’ll have a innocent conversation She's basically a substitute mom, that's how medival nurse worked. 5 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: Under the watchful eye (but not ears) of a governess they will There's no way she's going far enough from Gav that she can't hear what's happening 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 30 minutes ago, mathiau said: Even the Blackthorn sometime spared children, and the current Dalinar hates war, he would not accept using a 5 years in a war He doesn’t have to accept it since the contract does not stipulate an age 30 minutes ago, mathiau said: He can't understand because he's underage. A mature 5 year old can grasp concepts, and Gavinor is a mature boy 31 minutes ago, mathiau said: Maybe not but definitely more than before bounding Navani Quote Why would he spend all his time evesdropping on random 2 minute conversation Gavinor has 32 minutes ago, mathiau said: There's no way she's going far enough from Gav that she can't hear what's happening He would whisper while playing with blocks. All I saying is that it’s possible someone can talk to Gavinor and it’s possible that someone could be a spy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 41 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: Under the watchful eye (but not ears) of a governess they will The Secret Service doesn't leave the President alone, and you don't let some rando walk up to and have a discussion with the prince, that just isn't how it works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 A mom isn’t a secret service. She can walk away for 2 seconds with still having the child in sight 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 9 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: A mom isn’t a secret service. She can walk away for 2 seconds with still having the child in sight But you don't leave the prince with a stranger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: He doesn’t have to accept it since the contract does not stipulate an age I don't see why that matter. Odium and Dalinar have to follow both the words and the spirit of the contract, and the spirit of the contract say to use actual warriors that were not tricked into fighting this duel Quote A mature 5 year old can grasp concepts, and Gavinor is a mature boy Yes. Not that grasping concept is enough to qualify as a willing champion Quote Why would he spend all his time evesdropping on random 2 minute conversation Gavinor has They can definitely check on more than one part of the tower at once (the Sibling is a "they" by the way) Quote He would whisper while playing with blocks. I'm not sure even Kaladin would be allowed to do that Quote All I saying is that it’s possible someone can talk to Gavinor and it’s possible that someone could be a spy I'm saying it's impossible Anyway, a question we should have asked ourselves far earlier, what purpose would sending Gavinor fight fulfil for Todium? It might force a draw (remember that Todium can't know whether Dalinar would kill Gavinor to save the world or not) but a draw is not what Todium wants, he wants to win. He will probably send a champion that would be able to force a draw instead of letting Dalinar win, but he will definitely send a champion that has a chance of winning. Edited April 26, 2021 by mathiau 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 1 minute ago, mathiau said: don't see why that matter. Odium and Dalinar have to follow both the words and the spirit of the contract, and the spirit of the contract say to use actual warriors that were not tricked into fighting this duel Quote Are you sure about that? Rayse said that but never made an oath, Taravangian never agreed to anything. 2 minutes ago, mathiau said: Yes. Not that grasping concept is enough to qualify as a willing champion Quote Understanding is something he can do I believe he’s mature enough 3 minutes ago, mathiau said: I'm not even sure Kaladin would be allowed to do that Quote Ok what if he befriended the Governess then you get close to Gavinor 4 minutes ago, mathiau said: I'm saying it's impossible Agree to disagree 4 minutes ago, mathiau said: Anyway, a question we should have asked ourselves far earlier, what purpose would sending Gavinor fight fulfil for Todium? It might force a draw (remember that Todium can't know whether Dalinar would kill Gavinor to save the world or not) but a draw is not what Todium wants, he wants to win. He will probably send a champion that would be able to force a draw instead of letting Dalinar win, but he will definitely send a champion that has a chance of winning. I think he wants to win without killing Dalinar and making him a fused against his will. Save them all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: I think he wants to win without killing Dalinar and making him a fused against his will. Save them all How does he do that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 If Gavinor walks to the top of Urithiru then Dalinar refuses to fight. I assume this would release Taravangian on the Cosmere and everyone would be alive 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 Just now, Bejardin1250 said: If Gavinor walks to the top of Urithiru then Dalinar refuses to fight. I assume this would release Taravangian on the Cosmere and everyone would be alive That would not release Taravangian, the things done by Honour would still be there 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 As Dalinar being the liaison of Honor woudnt this be the same as Honor breaking his word 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 Just now, Bejardin1250 said: As Dalinar being the liaison of Honor woudnt this be the same as Honor breaking his word Dalinar never promised Odium would be free if there was a draw 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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