Color, Tones, and Metal

[Halyo_Alex]

I may have stumbled into the beginnings of something much bigger than I anticipated.

It was an easy enough matter to get started; I posed a set of statements and a question to myself. "It's becoming increasingly clear that color and metal are important fundamentals of the Cosmere because of Fabrials, Awakening, and the Metallic Arts. Color is important because it's a property of specific wavelengths of light, particular "tones" of light. So how is Metal going to relate to that?"

From there, I hit upon a couple possibilities.

But I think the one most worth going into detail about connects Investiture to my favorite weird physics, that's right everyone, quantum mechanics. It's my current hypothesis that metallic atoms have the proper frequency of quantum wavefunction to "filter" different frequencies of Investiture. This results in the strange supernatural "theming" of the metals across the metallic arts and even extending into the cages of Fabrials, where color and tone have already been proven abundantly needed.

Picture "background investiture" as white noise. Now picture, say... Tin atoms in a pure, undisturbed lattice. Now recall that according to quantum mechanics, all particles also behave like waves (this has even been observed with molecules made of tens of carbon atoms still producing an interference pattern (even when released 1 at a time) in the famous double-slit experiment). The frequency of Tin's quantum wavefunction will interfere constructively with some frequencies of background investiture, and destructively interfere with others, filtering the output of the investiture into a new set of frequencies that don't look like background noise, the frequencies become a stream of investiture that "enhances senses", or something thereabouts.

Now picture using a specific Shard's Investiture as the "background investiture". Tin will filter out everything of that shard that doesn't relate to senses, causing the amplification. Stormlight becomes a booster of the spren's sensitivity, making them output less for the same subjective feeling, while Tineyes get to see through the Mists because the frequencies overlap due to the Investiture originating with Preservation.

And of course, with alloys, what's important is the "holes" in the atomic lattice (and indeed, metallic atoms' ability to arrange in a regular structure is key in general). It lets other frequencies of investiture leak through, which correspond to different effects. Tin's senses becomes Pewter's physical enhancement.

The one thing I'm not certain on is where in Allomancy the push/pull difference originates from precisely. Is it just a rule that Bronze seeking hears pure metal tones as "pulling" while alloyed tones become "pushing"? Or is it a fundemental, even a Singer would hear tin as pulling, while pewter pushes?

I'd love to hear feedback on all of this in general. I'm super curious to know if my "quantum wavefunctions filter Investiture frequencies" hypothesis makes any sense.

[Honorless]

I think this checks out. Metal acts as a key for Allomancers to access Preservation's Investiture. Without Allomancy in your Spiritweb, you can't access that Investiture but you should still be able to use the metal to filter other Investiture that you do have access to. An element's atomic structure absorbs and reflects different wavelengths of light, the light can be used to identify those atoms & molecules. With metals whose structures are used as filters for Investiture, maybe they could do the same with Light, and Investiture in general. This is interesting because this suggests reactivity between matter, energy & Investiture. Which might mean that other chemically mundane substances that may not be Allomantically viable might react to Investiture in certain ways.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Honorless
edited for clarity

[+Bzhydack]

12 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Which might mean that other chemically mundane substances that may not be Allomantically viable might react to Investiture in certain ways.

I thought we have this confirmed - Silver is not allomanticly viable, at least not pure one, but can react with Investiture. Also, Water and Silicon could have some interactions (due to importance of Both for Taldain Magic System, of course ITs focus are bacteria, but they live on sand and need Water), and come on, Coal builds living beings, who can use Investiture, and Investiture wants to be alive. Like Coal.

[Honorless]

38 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

I thought we have this confirmed - Silver is not allomanticly viable, at least not pure one, but can react with Investiture. Also, Water and Silicon could have some interactions (due to importance of Both for Taldain Magic System, of course ITs focus are bacteria, but they live on sand and need Water), and come on, Coal builds living beings, who can use Investiture, and Investiture wants to be alive. Like Coal.

Yup, Silver is what I had in mind! Water might be important to Taldain, not sure about silicon, as it's not the sand itself that's magical but the microorganisms living on it. As for the last one, I think that has more to do with Investiture tending towards sentience, objects having a Cognitive... something and stemming from it, things that used to be alive wanting to be alive again. I'm not sure that might have anything to do with Investiture reactivity.

But more importantly, I was wondering if gemstones should be able to store other kinds of Investiture.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Honorless

[Halyo_Alex]

19 hours ago, Honorless said:

But more importantly, I was wondering if gemstones should be able to store other kinds of Investiture.

It would not surprise me if a proper Polestone could store Light from Taldain's sun. Have we seen any of those in White Sand so far that would debunk this?

[Honorless]

40 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

It would not surprise me if a proper Polestone could store Light from Taldain's sun. Have we seen any of those in White Sand so far that would debunk this?

In White Sand? No, we haven't seen gemstones being used for Investiture storage outside of Roshar.

We haven't seen that many Investiture storage objects actually, just the Polestones and the spheres from the Ire.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Honorless

[Halyo_Alex]

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

In White Sand? No, we haven't seen gemstones being used for Investiture storage outside of Roshar.

We haven't seen that many Investiture storage objects actually, just the Polestones and the spheres from the Ire.

So, no rubies or the like that have been in the daylight of Taldain?

[Honorless]

25 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

So, no rubies or the like that have been in the daylight of Taldain?

Are you talking about those red spheres? 

[Halyo_Alex]

3 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Are you talking about those red spheres? 

...I'mma be honest.

I haven't read White Sand. So I have 0 idea what you mean.

[Honorless]

41 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

...I'mma be honest.

I haven't read White Sand. So I have 0 idea what you mean.

Oops sorry, very minor spoiler

[+CallsignZen]

and the sand of Taldain isn't necessarily the special part, it's the microflora living in the sand right? so yes, the Investiture comes from the sun, but the microflora is what absorbs and stores it

[Halyo_Alex]

47 minutes ago, CallsignZen said:

and the sand of Taldain isn't necessarily the special part, it's the microflora living in the sand right? so yes, the Investiture comes from the sun, but the microflora is what absorbs and stores it

And we know that microflora responds to other forms of Investiture, so is the reverse also true, and you can store Sunlight inside polestones?

[+CallsignZen]

28 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

And we know that microflora responds to other forms of Investiture, so is the reverse also true, and you can store Sunlight inside polestones?

maybe?? i feel like the Sunlight would pass through the gemstone (or reflect off  it, whatever) but the Investiture, the Sunlight itself is stored in microflora, not the gemstone, so you could illuminate the gemstone, but not store Taldain investiture. does that make sense?

also how do we know microflora responds to other kinds of investiture? not that i doubt you, i just want an example. 

[Halyo_Alex]

13 minutes ago, CallsignZen said:

maybe?? i feel like the Sunlight would pass through the gemstone (or reflect off  it, whatever) but the Investiture, the Sunlight itself is stored in microflora, not the gemstone, so you could illuminate the gemstone, but not store Taldain investiture. does that make sense?

Maybe if you have a Polestone near White sand and you pour water on the sand...

13 minutes ago, CallsignZen said:

also how do we know microflora responds to other kinds of investiture? not that i doubt you, i just want an example. 

Hoid detects Shallan's lightweaving with a jar of it, and Vyre detects Phendorana with a jar of it accurately enough to stab her with anti-stormlight even though he can't see her directly.

[+CallsignZen]

7 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Hoid detects Shallan's lightweaving with a jar of it, and Vyre detects Phendorana with a jar of it accurately enough to stab her with anti-stormlight even though he can't see her directly.

ah yes

7 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Maybe if you have a Polestone near White sand and you pour water on the sand...

but again, actual Taldain investiture is stored in the plants so it wouldn’t be caught in the gemstone. right? am i missing something?

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, CallsignZen said:

ah yes

but again, actual Taldain investiture is stored in the plants so it wouldn’t be caught in the gemstone. right? am i missing something?

The microflora lives on the grains of sand, and release Investiture when they're exposed to water.

[+CallsignZen]

1 minute ago, Halyo_Alex said:

The microflora lives on the grains of sand, and release Investiture when they're exposed to water.

ah that’s right. so maybe you could. that’s interesting to think about in terms of fabrial mechanics

[miqius]

Hey @Halyo_Alex! I enjoy this theory very much, but I'd like to discuss some aspects. I might be wrong, but bear with me for just a moment.

From what I know about quantum interference, you get an intensity pattern caused by electron scattering. So first, this wouldn't work on a metal, where electrons aren't localized and therefore don't follow its atomical structure. In crystals though... there's a thread we could pull on (gems: Brandon has specified that some Polestones have almost the exact same composition, the only difference is in structure, caused by impurities; same as their real counterparts). And second, this scattering doesn't affect frequency, the electrons absorb the energy from the light and then release this same energy (so light in the same frequency) in all directions. So if blue light goes through a crystal, blue light comes out (also blue light can't penetrate crystal or metal, it would have to be x-ray or higher, but we're actually talking about Investiture so who knows).

If you are talking about another type of scattering related to the nucleus wavefuction (and not electron scattering) that actually modifies or filters frequency please explain, I've never been a fan of crystallography and I'm a bit rusty. Also, it bothers me that what would be filtered is what gets scattered, and the rest actually passes through :'(.

That being said, I'd love this theory to work (or maybe a slightly different angle), it tackles the basics and would explain many things. And I think Brandon wouldn't go this deep, but instead say yeah there's some magical physics-like mumbo-jumbo related to metallic structure that filters the Investiture's Tone.

Edit: I'd also love to know the other theories if you find the time to share them

Edited June 8, 2021 by Miqius