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Do Bondsmiths Use/Need Bind Points for Spiritual Adhesion?


Quantus

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In the name. I was discussing a theory about Ishar and his experiments, which kept circling back to similarities with Hemalurgy and that made me wonder if Bind Points are at all present in the the broader ways a Bondsmith manipulates Connection (now that they are unsupervised), especially once an experienced one starts pursuing more complex effects and goals.  Im not sure how much evidence we've seen for or against this so far, but especially in light of the revelation of fabrial metal effects, it could make sense for Bind Points to be a common theme in other magics that manipulate the Spiritweb directly.  

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12 minutes ago, Quantus said:

In the name. I was discussing a theory about Ishar and his experiments, which kept circling back to similarities with Hemalurgy and that made me wonder if Bind Points are at all present in the the broader ways a Bondsmith manipulates Connection (now that they are unsupervised), especially once an experienced one starts pursuing more complex effects and goals.  Im not sure how much evidence we've seen for or against this so far, but especially in light of the revelation of fabrial metal effects, it could make sense for Bind Points to be a common theme in other magics that manipulate the Spiritweb directly.  

we don't see anytjing that would inicate this.

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30 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

we don't see anytjing that would inicate this.

Closest thing I can think of is is an apparent need for physical contact.  But then we've also only seen a very few examples of the power at all and most were the base/amateur level applications, so those effects my be less discriminatingly on the contact point required than your Oathpact-level applications.   

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3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Closest thing I can think of is is an apparent need for physical contact.  But then we've also only seen a very few examples of the power at all and most were the base/amateur level applications, so those effects my be less discriminatingly on the contact point required than your Oathpact-level applications.   

Dalinar didn't need physical contact for kaladin.

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That makes sense to me, and if it doesn't turn out that way, I might be sad :l

1 hour ago, Aspiring Writer said:

Dalinar didn't need physical contact for kaladin.

When? Are you talking about when he spoke to Kaladin through the storm? I feel like that's a little different than just Connection manipulation as the Stormfather is a somewhat unknown element...

He needed physical contact to talk to those soldiers, and to make those maps with Shallan

 Ishar needed physical contact to forge a connection between the Windrunners and Roshar

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2 minutes ago, IAmTheStick said:

That makes sense to me, and if it doesn't turn out that way, I might be sad :l

When? Are you talking about when he spoke to Kaladin through the storm? I feel like that's a little different than just Connection manipulation as the Stormfather is a somewhat unknown element...

He needed physical contact to talk to those soldiers, and to make those maps with Shallan

 Ishar needed physical contact to forge a connection between the Windrunners and Roshar

he forged a connection between Kaladin and Tien. 

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13 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

he forged a connection between Kaladin and Tien. 

But this was inside the Highstorm. Dalinar wasnt im contact with Kaladin, but his Spren was, and Radiant and Spren bonded with Nahel Bond are one entity from spiritual perspective.

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31 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Source?

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Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)
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Play/Pause
 

yulerule (Paraphrased)

I also asked about the connection between the spren and Surgebinder, such that the spren turns into what the Surgebinder wants. Like in Edgedancer, [Wyndle] turns into a bar of metal and into a Shardfork. Wyndle himself isn't "in tune" with Lift, so his turning into something that she needs with no prior warning...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, they actually mix. When the bonding is happening, what's happening is that the gaps in the souls are being filled with the spren's <essence>. And they are actually melding into one 

yulerule

*inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

And they are actually melding into one individual *inaudible*.

yulerule

<And the minds are separate?>

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, mhm.

You're welcome.

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I don't see why Hemalurgic princples wouldn't be relevant or related to other type of Connection manipulation. Even if you can access the Spirit Web from a distance using surges, having direct Physical access should make the access even easier. Easier access would mean more precise manipulation and more complex abilities. There are definitely hints at mixing known magic systems, and Bondsmith powers and Hemalurgy would be particularly complimentary.

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The only other magic system we’ve seen that deals with this sort of thing is forging (and maybe blood sealing) but I don’t think the soul stamps have to be placed in any specific spot. I think the reason hemalurgy requires bind point from a narrative perspective is to nerf it. From a realmatic perspective it’s likely due to how low investiture spikes are. 

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1 hour ago, i’m in the details said:

The only other magic system we’ve seen that deals with this sort of thing is forging (and maybe blood sealing) but I don’t think the soul stamps have to be placed in any specific spot. I think the reason hemalurgy requires bind point from a narrative perspective is to nerf it. From a realmatic perspective it’s likely due to how low investiture spikes are. 

True, though the Dor magics are all wildly different that many other things, mostly from being sourced in the "wrong" realm.  Bloodsealing for example has no Spiritual component like other Healing; it's a brute force approach where you have to actually cognitively Know the routing of every nerve, tissue, and blood vessel.  

The closest correlating example I can think of is Shardblade damage where a Spiritual wound at a given body location has a direct effect on the same body parts, indicating a correlation between the structure and physical Location of the Spiritweb.  A bit of a stretch I know, but I would have said the same about metal s and fabrials before RoW

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Master_Moridin

What is the relationship between blood and the Spiritual Realm? (Since Hemalurgy needs blood to graft the sDNA in a spike into someone else's sDNA)

Brandon Sanderson

The blood being in motion is part of it.

Hemalurgy specifically requires flowing blood. Connection manipulation does not (most likely). So I doubt it will also require bind points.

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On 14/04/2021 at 2:08 AM, Leuthie said:

I don't see why Hemalurgic princples wouldn't be relevant or related to other type of Connection manipulation. Even if you can access the Spirit Web from a distance using surges, having direct Physical access should make the access even easier. Easier access would mean more precise manipulation and more complex abilities. There are definitely hints at mixing known magic systems, and Bondsmith powers and Hemalurgy would be particularly complimentary.

I don't see why the would be relevant

22 hours ago, i’m in the details said:

I think the reason hemalurgy requires bind point from a narrative perspective is to nerf it.

The actual reason is too allow spikes of the same metal to do drastically different effect

13 hours ago, Truthwatcher Artifabrian said:

Hemalurgy specifically requires flowing blood. Connection manipulation does not (most likely). So I doubt it will also require bind points.

It actually does't

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Questioner

Would it be possible to make Hemalurgic dental fillings? If there were a mad-scientist dentist?

Brandon Sanderson

I've thought about this. I think that would be possible, but for Hemalurgy to really work I need it to...it doesn't actually have to be touching the blood, despite what they think. But I think your average dental filling is not going deep enough...

Questioner

Root canal!

Brandon Sanderson

*Continues* But yeah, you could make it work.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)
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