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Now that it's confirmed that there are only nine Surges usable by the Fused, as they don't believe Adhesion is a true Surge, I wonder if there's some significance to the Unmade? Re-Shephir was sealed away by a Lightweaver, right? What if there's a reason for that? I always found it strange how Shallan seemed to empathize so easily with Re-Shephir.

I first became suspicious about Shardplate being manifested lesser spren after reading a question asked to Brandon about Kaladin often being followed by packs of windspren, and I started thinking what type of spren each order of Knights Radiant might manifest as Shardplate. That led me to think about the relationship between humans and singers, and spren, and I started wondering if the Unmade might correspond to an order of Radiants or Herald each, as well.

Following this thread, it seems that the Unmade might be a subversion of the attributes associated with each order/Herald:

  • Nergaoul might be the dark inversion of Taln's role as Herald of War, as Nergaoul inspires a bloodlust that robs war and combat of any higher or noble purpose.
  • Ba-Ado-Mishram, as a commander of Odium's forces, might be a dark counter to Jezrien's role as Herald of Kings, the leader of humanity, or maybe to Ishar, as she manipulated Connection on a massive scale to bond with singers and provide Regals and Voidlight
  • Sja-Anat's ability to corrupt spren may be a dark adaptation of the Truthwatchers' mission to spread truth through the populace and keep an eye on the world's leaders, but Sja-Anat's children serve as spies rather than whistleblowers.

I'm of the opinion that, because the Fused see the Surge of Adhesion as a lie perpetrated by Honor, and it indeed it can't be suppressed by the Voidlight fabrial, one of the two orders that has that Surge will not have a corresponding Unmade. It just so happens that those two orders, the Bondsmiths and the Windrunners, were associated with leadership, the Bondsmiths with leadership of the Knights Radiant, the Windrunners with leadership of humanity at large. I wonder if there's any deeper significance to that, that maybe Odium didn't want an Unmade that was meant as a dark subversion of leaders.

I'm not sure, and maybe I'm blowing this all out of proportion, but hey, there's always another secret.

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Brandon has said the Unmade don't exactly correspond to the orders of Knights, and that there's not a specific Bondsmith unmade... So BAM may indeed be that "fuzziness" in the correspondence while also not exactly being a bondsmith unmade. She's mostly the parallel of Jezrien, while also having the connection abilities of a bondsmith.

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1 hour ago, Elias said:

Sja-Anat's ability to corrupt spren may be a dark adaptation of the Truthwatchers' mission to spread truth through the populace and keep an eye on the world's leaders, but Sja-Anat's children serve as spies rather than whistleblowers.

Honestly, my main holdup with it is that the transformation she performs seems to be associated with, well, Transformation. Otherwise, this one would fit well enough.

Here Sja-anat compares her power to Transformation:

Quote

Sja-anat flowed into the hallway of the palace and met with two of her children, touched windspren. Humans called them “corrupted,” but she hated this term. She did not corrupt. She Enlightened them, showing them that a different path was possible. Did not the humans revere Transformation—the ability of all beings to become someone new, someone better—as a core ideal of their religion? Yet they grew angry when she let spren change?

And Raboniel corrupting the Sibling is explicitly attributed to the Surge of Transformation:

Quote

You must move quickly, the Sibling repeated. The Lady of Pains has the Surge of Transformation and dangerous knowledge. She will infuse my entire heart—the pillar—in the proper order, using her Voidlight. In so doing, she would corrupt me and leave me … leave me as one of the Unmade.…

An interesting side note:

  • Sja-anat is partially in the Cognitive, but in a way less like she's halfway between and more like she's two entities sharing a mind, one in each Realm
  • The other seemingly sapient Unmade (besides BAM, the rather weird one) that we know is Yelig-nar
  • Yelig-nar, when Amaram used him, caused amethysts to grow, which is the polestone of the Willshapers (and iirc OB got edited so that Amaram swallowed an amethyst as well, vs a smokestone in the earlier version)
  • Willshapers have Transportation, and Sja-anat has that association with Transformation, which borders Transportation and is shared along with it by the Elsecallers

So both our sapient Unmade of this level may have an association with Transportation, and at least one of the two has a separate segment of themselves in the Realm of the mind and thought. Not enough for me to do a proper theory with it, but just an odd observation that I feel like could mean something.

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10 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

An interesting side note:

  • Sja-anat is partially in the Cognitive, but in a way less like she's halfway between and more like she's two entities sharing a mind, one in each Realm
  • The other seemingly sapient Unmade (besides BAM, the rather weird one) that we know is Yelig-nar
  • Yelig-nar, when Amaram used him, caused amethysts to grow, which is the polestone of the Willshapers (and iirc OB got edited so that Amaram swallowed an amethyst as well, vs a smokestone in the earlier version)
  • Willshapers have Transportation, and Sja-anat has that association with Transformation, which borders Transportation and is shared along with it by the Elsecallers

So both our sapient Unmade of this level may have an association with Transportation, and at least one of the two has a separate segment of themselves in the Realm of the mind and thought. Not enough for me to do a proper theory with it, but just an odd observation that I feel like could mean something.

This is very interesting, especially the part about Sja-anat seeming like two entities sharing a mind. Theory:

  1. The number of names of an Unmade shows in how many realms they actively exist. I.e. Unmade with no hyphen exist mainly in Physical Realm, Unmade with one hyphen have active parts in both Physical and Cognitive, and BAM also has active part in Spiritual (potentially explaining how she was able to manipulate connections).
  2. This might tie together with theory that there were originally 16 such sprenand what Odium did is that he tied some together, and showed them into Cognitive realm and in one case even into Spiritual realm (we know Odium can take things out of spiritual into cognitive, so why not take something from cognitive and put it in spiritual?)
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This is the coolest theory I’ve seen on where the unmade came from

 

 

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On 4/9/2021 at 3:55 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Honestly, my main holdup with it is that the transformation she performs seems to be associated with, well, Transformation. Otherwise, this one would fit well enough.

Here Sja-anat compares her power to Transformation:

And Raboniel corrupting the Sibling is explicitly attributed to the Surge of Transformation:

An interesting side note:

  • Sja-anat is partially in the Cognitive, but in a way less like she's halfway between and more like she's two entities sharing a mind, one in each Realm
  • The other seemingly sapient Unmade (besides BAM, the rather weird one) that we know is Yelig-nar
  • Yelig-nar, when Amaram used him, caused amethysts to grow, which is the polestone of the Willshapers (and iirc OB got edited so that Amaram swallowed an amethyst as well, vs a smokestone in the earlier version)
  • Willshapers have Transportation, and Sja-anat has that association with Transformation, which borders Transportation and is shared along with it by the Elsecallers

So both our sapient Unmade of this level may have an association with Transportation, and at least one of the two has a separate segment of themselves in the Realm of the mind and thought. Not enough for me to do a proper theory with it, but just an odd observation that I feel like could mean something.

All of this may be true, and I'm rereading RoW. I was going off what I remembered about the first reading, which I fully accept is likely faulty. Nergaoul was the only one that I really felt I had a solid grip on when I started writing that post. The others were just speculation to get the conversation started. That said, I do still think there must be something more to the fact there's nine Unmade and nine brands of Fused.

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9 hours ago, Elias said:

All of this may be true, and I'm rereading RoW. I was going off what I remembered about the first reading, which I fully accept is likely faulty. Nergaoul was the only one that I really felt I had a solid grip on when I started writing that post. The others were just speculation to get the conversation started. That said, I do still think there must be something more to the fact there's nine Unmade and nine brands of Fused.

I'm still going with "Rayse fears Adhesion"

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On 4/11/2021 at 0:42 AM, Elias said:

All of this may be true, and I'm rereading RoW. I was going off what I remembered about the first reading, which I fully accept is likely faulty. Nergaoul was the only one that I really felt I had a solid grip on when I started writing that post. The others were just speculation to get the conversation started.

That's fair, and like I said, I'd agree with the Sja-anat Truthwatcher connections if not for that. The name "enlightening", the collecting of secrets, etc do seem fitting for it. So I'm kinda torn with her there. I could see it going either way.

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