Navani Foreshadowing

[+mdross81]

3 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

There is actually a 50% chance of 2 characters being the same gender so...

I think it's only 33% (the options of MM, MF, and FF) but point taken.

That said, I'll also let my feminist flag fly though and say that sometimes I detect an undercurrent of - let's call it a spectrum from unconscious bias to outright misogyny - to some of the remarks critical of Shallan and Navani.

[Jenet]

Just now, Bejardin1250 said:

She hid it on her desk. Forgive me if I’m not impressed. 

 

She didn’t need the sphere for this and also didn’t need to keep the instrument where Raboniel can find it.

she handed Raboniel the process on a silver platter.

So, how would you have saved the tower city and the Sibling?

[Infinity Sliver]

1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said:

She hid it on her desk. Forgive me if I’m not impressed. 

 

She didn’t need the sphere for this and also didn’t need to keep the instrument where Raboniel can find it.

she handed Raboniel the process on a silver platter.

Hold up,hiow many places did she have to hide anything when she's literally a captive in a locked room and one of her captors is Raboniel?

what sphere didnt she need?

[Bejarden]

4 minutes ago, Jenet said:

So, how would you have saved the tower city and the Sibling?

I’m not worthy of Bondsmith.

 

5 minutes ago, mdross81 said:

That said, I'll also let my feminist flag fly though and say that sometimes I detect an undercurrent of - let's call it a spectrum from unconscious bias to outright misogyny - to some of the remarks critical of Shallan and Navani.

Just gonna say that if someone brings bullet points why they don’t like a character how is that unconscious bias. 
I also assume that we’ve all thought a bunch on this seeing as this has been going on for multiple days

 

4 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

Hold up,hiow many places did she have to hide anything when she's literally a captive in a locked room and one of her captors is Raboniel?

what sphere didnt she need?

In multiple pieces or a furnace. She’s smart and can figure it out
The Anti-Voidlight , the only thing she used was the Tone

[Frustration]

16 minutes ago, Jenet said:

So you think that leaders don't actually do anything? When they use their power to delegate resources to a task? Do you think that a bondsmith's power is personal only? That their ability to get other people to support a task or work together to get something done, then the leader has not done anything?

If a scientist makes a discovery the person funding them doesn't get the credit.

[Jenet]

Just now, Bejardin1250 said:

I’m not worthy of Bondsmith.

 

Hahaha! Oh, well, it's easy to solve a crisis from an armchair. Thanks for the discussion. This does not give me more interesting information, I am afraid.

[Bejarden]

Just now, Jenet said:

Hahaha! Oh, well, it's easy to solve a crisis from an armchair. Thanks for the discussion. This does not give me more interesting information, I am afraid.

What I was saying is that Navani did a very good job, but made some huge mistakes.

So she could be good but unworthy.

 

[Infinity Sliver]

Just now, Bejardin1250 said:

I’m not worthy of Bondsmith.

That wasnt the question though,the process to save the Tower began before she became a Bondsmith. Youre using those methods as a reason she couldnt become a Bondsmith AFTER she saved the Tower.

2 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

In multiple pieces or a furnace. She’s smart and can figure it out
The Anti-Voidlight , the only thing she used was the Tone

The Anti-Voidlight sphere was completely destroyed in the initial explosion no? Isnt that what set her to thinking of anti Lights?

She's smart but she literally only had a room in which to hide anything,much less trying to be secretive

[Frustration]

14 minutes ago, Jenet said:

So, how would you have saved the tower city and the Sibling?

Not work with the enemy

[Bejarden]

Just now, Infinitysliver said:

That wasnt the question though,the process to save the Tower began before she became a Bondsmith. Youre using those methods as a reason she couldnt become a Bondsmith AFTER she saved the Tower.

5 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

No it didn’t she was never worthy according to the Sibling.

im using the character to decide whether that character is worth

1 minute ago, Infinitysliver said:

The Anti-Voidlight sphere was completely destroyed in the initial explosion no? Isnt that what set her to thinking of anti Lights?

She's smart but she literally only had a room in which to hide anything,much less trying to be secretive

She made another and then another 

She can destroy it by smacking it very hard, or using a knife she conveniently had.

[Jenet]

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

If a scientist makes a discovery the person funding them doesn't get the credit.

She can be a scientist AND a leader, and a Bondsmith should be a leader. I find it tedious to sit here and repeat myself, and I am sorry to say you don't give me anything more interesting to think about, so I will bid you good night.

[Frustration]

Just now, Jenet said:

She can be a scientist AND a leader, and a Bondsmith should be a leader. I find it tedious to sit here and repeat myself, and I am sorry to say you don't give me anything more interesting to think about, so I will bid you good night.

What?

That doesn't prove anything, Navani doesn't get credit for what one of the Ardents did

[Infinity Sliver]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Not work with the enemy

Come on,you are nitpicking way too much. The tower has been invaded,your one hope,The Sibling,is been slowly corrupted and when that happens,almost all the efforts Team Radiant will mount becomes that much harder,and th enemy,a fellow scientist,seems interested but unaware of the full scpe of your efforts to restore your lifeline,you need her cooperation to continue these efforts,what will you do?

2 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

No it didn’t she was never worthy according to the Sibling.

im using the character to decide whether that character is worth

Again,youre moving away from the question. He asked you,what you would do to save the Tower,been a Bondsmith wasnt the only thing that saved The Sibling,Navani did way more before simply been a Bondsmith,so his question was,what would you have done to save the tower,nothing more

4 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

She made another and then another 

She can destroy it by smacking it very hard, or using a knife she conveniently had.

I mean,has a scientist,been able to repeat your success is key no? thats literally how a theory is formed,by repeating it over and over beyond a shadow of a doubt. And do gems break that easily?

[Bejarden]

2 minutes ago, Jenet said:

She can be a scientist AND a leader, and a Bondsmith should be a leader. I find it tedious to sit here and repeat myself, and I am sorry to say you don't give me anything more interesting to think about, so I will bid you good 

But not every leader is a Bondsmith “Leaders” are products of circumstances expecialy Navani was

And if you don’t want us to repeat ourselves stop saying the same things. Our points are good and don’t require a change unless disproven which you have failed to do

[Frustration]

Just now, Infinitysliver said:

Come on,you are nitpicking way too much. The tower has been invaded,your one hope,The Sibling,is been slowly corrupted and when that happens,almost all the efforts Team Radiant will mount becomes that much harder,and th enemy,a fellow scientist,seems interested but unaware of the full scpe of your efforts to restore your lifeline,you need her cooperation to continue these efforts,what will you do?

Leave them and find Kaladin.

[therunner]

Just now, Frustration said:

Leave them and find Kaladin.

Navani really did not have any option to just leave, and what would Kaladin do? He barely survived as it is.

[Infinity Sliver]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Leave them and find Kaladin.

and then what? you guys are simplifying this way too much. She's held captive,under almost constant watch,so much so that Raboniel figures out she has been been communicating with Kaladin( i think)

Edited April 9, 2021 by Infinitysliver

[Bejarden]

Why is it a nitpick to say don’t work with enemy. 
She could have found the Anti Tone and then destroyed the evidence.

1 minute ago, Infinitysliver said:

and then what? you guys are simplifying this way too much. She's held captive,under almost constant watch,so much so that Raboniel figures out she has been been communicating with Kaladin( i think)

So your idea is that if your held captive cooperation and giving weapons to the enemy is the best idea?

 

5 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

I mean,has a scientist,been able to repeat your success is key no? thats literally how a theory is formed,by repeating it over and over beyond a shadow of a doubt. And do gems break that easily?

What?

so since you give an enemy one Atom bomb you should give them another so you are sure it works?

And gems crack

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

and then what? you guys are simplifying this way too much. She's held captive,under almost constant watch,so much so that Raboniel figures out she has been been communicating with Kaladin( i think)

Raboniel was listening to the Sibling

If your enemy offers to help you they obviously believe that they will benefit more from that exchange then you and you should refuse. Why is that so contraversial?

[Infinity Sliver]

2 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Why is it a nitpick to say don’t work with enemy. 
She could have found the Anti Tone and then destroyed the evidence.

So your idea is that if your held captive cooperation and giving weapons to the enemy is the best idea?

Cause it is nitpicking! She's been held captive. She cant call for help or even if she could get Kaladin,what is one man supposed to do against an invasion force? She had very very limited options. Its not the best idea but its War,you dont get to live your perfect scenario

5 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

What?

so since you give an enemy one Atom bomb you should give them another so you are sure it works?

And gems crack

Yes,in science,repeatability is key,this is a fact so i wont even debate it.

a gem worth of anti-Light is not an A bomb,lets calm down there.

Under what circumstances do gems crack?

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

If your enemy offers to help you they obviously believe that they will benefit more from that exchange then you and you should refuse. Why is that so contraversial?

Yes,you should,unless you know its the only way to save your Tower? Are we forgetting this was the only way to flush out the anti-Light? How is this  a controversy? I fail to understand how you guys are making it to seem like she had other options when she was veryyyyy limited in what she could do

[Frustration]

Just now, Infinitysliver said:

Yes,you should,unless you know its the only way to save your Tower? Are we forgetting this was the only way to flush out the anti-Light? How is this  a controversy? I fail to understand how you guys are making it to seem like she had other options when she was veryyyyy limited in what she could do

Lights are used when fabrials function, all that needed to be done was for the Sibling to use the Voidlight. Or have a Larkin drain it, getting rid on investiture is actually pretty easy.

And working with Raboniel is not the only way to save the tower, as for how can one man stop an invasion, Kaladin does pretty good at doing just that.

[Bejarden]

6 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

Cause it is nitpicking! She's been held captive. She cant call for help or even if she could get Kaladin,what is one man supposed to do against an invasion force? She had very very limited options. Its not the best idea but its War,you dont get to live your perfect scenario

She made a mistake. And she’s not worthy because of it. 
What’s so good about Navani that she deserves to be the 3rd most powerful person on Roshar.

Not everyone is worthy only 3 are. And most times not even that.

8 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

Yes,in science,repeatability is key,this is a fact so i wont even debate it.

a gem worth of anti-Light is not an A bomb,lets calm down there.

Under what circumstances do gems crack?

But why do you have to repeat it then? Wait 20 minutes until your free. 
 

This was a point I made about the ramifications of A-light. If you take a ton of it and regular Light you will have a huge A level explosion maybe not a fallout but I’m not sure

11 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

Under what circumstances do gems crack?

Kaladin breaks a Gemstone with a spear. I know he’s stronger but Navani can jump on it to make up the difference 

 

16 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

Yes,you should,unless you know its the only way to save your Tower? Are we forgetting this was the only way to flush out the anti-Light? How is this  a controversy? I fail to understand how you guys are making it to seem like she had other options when she was veryyyyy limited in what she could do

But why did she have to create the Gem? She could have left it at an anti tone. Even that was bad. She should have destroyed the evidence before Raboniel came.

And it’s not nitpicking to say that she made a wrong decision. If you can’t handle stress you shouldn’t be a Bondsmith 

[Infinity Sliver]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Lights are used when fabrials function, all that needed to be done was for the Sibling to use the Voidlight. Or have a Larkin drain it, getting rid on investiture is actually pretty easy.

And working with Raboniel is not the only way to save the tower, as for how can one man stop an invasion, Kaladin does pretty good at doing just that.

But,the Sibling can't use Voidlight,There was no larkin to drain anything,if getting rid of investiture was that easy and she could get her hands on it,there would literally be no need for such drastic measures.

As for Kaladin,maybe  if he was in top shape,but the man needed fabrials to help him,he was underpowered,severely depressed,and again,even if he was in top shape,there was NOOOO way he could ahve done it. It was an invasion force,Leshwi,Raboniel and Lezian were there,with other stormforms,other fused,plus they had literally hundreds of hostages,how could he accomplish anything?

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

But,the Sibling can't use Voidlight,There was no larkin to drain anything,if getting rid of investiture was that easy and she could get her hands on it,there would literally be no need for such drastic measures.

There is a larkin in Theylanah.

5 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

As for Kaladin,maybe  if he was in top shape,but the man needed fabrials to help him,he was underpowered,severely depressed,and again,even if he was in top shape,there was NOOOO way he could ahve done it. It was an invasion force,Leshwi,Raboniel and Lezian were there,with other stormforms,other fused,plus they had literally hundreds of hostages,how could he accomplish anything?

 But, he did. He fought Lezian, made him retreat, killed him and intimidated the entire regal force into not attacking him.

 

[Infinity Sliver]

1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said:

She made a mistake. And she’s not worthy because of it. 
What’s so good about Navani that she deserves to be the 3rd most powerful person on Roshar

Not everyone is worthy only 3 are. And most times not even that.

But why do you have to repeat it then? Wait 20 minutes until your free. 

Again,the question wasnt her worthiness,it was what would you have done to save the tower? This is before she become a Bondsmith so you cant use that. And making a mistake somehow disqualifies you from been worthy??? What?

What am i repeating?

2 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

This was a point I made about the ramifications of A-light. If you take a ton of it and regular Light you will have a huge A level explosion maybe not a fallout but I’m not sure

But she didnt have a ton,she had a few spheres worth!

 

3 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

But why did she have to create the Gem? She could have left it at an anti tone. Even that was bad. She should have destroyed the evidence before Raboniel came.

And it’s not nitpicking to say that she made a wrong decision. If you can’t handle stress you shouldn’t be a Bondsmith 

OMG! If you cant handle stress you cant be a Bondsmith? She made due with the very limited resources she had. Literally anyone else on Roshar would have failed if they were put in that exact spot,maybe except Dalinar.

Honestly,i dont even remember too much from the book but I kinda remember that the anti tone wasnt enough? Else Raboniel would have just used anti tone to kill her daughter instead of anti VoidLight?