Infinitysliver

Navani Foreshadowing

335 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, Lanaya said:

Well I don't think the fused will advertise a hackathon for any Radiant to participate in. You realize you are using the best case scenarios right?

Can you please rephrase that I don't quite understand

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

@Frustration the idea that Nightblood can single handedly take on the entire army of the Fused is a bit...( ahh I can’t think of a word that’s not gonna come off disrespectful hmmmm how about slightly impossible)

First off Nale can beat Szeth quiet soundly as we see when he attacks Dalinar.

Szeth did not draw NIghtblood, and with it he has proven to be more than a match for Heralds.

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Additionaly the fused can just keep on sending Regals to fight him until he dies.

There is more than one Radiant, and Regals can't fly.

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Also Szeth almost dies in Theylan field and that was a pretty small battle.

He kept NIghtblood drawn for too long, sheath him sooner and he'd be fine.

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Its not that hard as Lananya said to throw it in the ocean in an aluminum foil case. 

Then we're back to square one and the Fused have lost numbers but Radiants haven't and on top of that Nightblood has a cognitive acspect so tracking him down won't be hard.

8 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Szeth can do damage but not that much damage 

Ask the pre-desolation nations how much damage he can do.

Edit:

@Lanaya

Quote

I just read this and I have to comment: Are you using possibly the most insane person that we've seen so far in the cosmere to justify someone else's sanity level?

I'm saying Szeth isn't the most insane

Edited by Frustration
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The part of the argument against Navani I do follow is that we’ve seen how devastating Bondsmith powers can be, so you obviously want to be cautious about who these Radiants in particular are.  

The reason I’m not as worried about this is because I think there’s a temptation to apply what Ishar can do to what Navani may do, when Ishar is mainly scary because his powers are unchecked through an Honorblade (and he’s gone insane). 

We’ve already seen on screen what happens when a Radiant bonded to a spren uses their powers in a way that disregards their oaths. Kaladin nearly killed Syl due to this. I’m not so worried that Navani can just circumvent her bond with The Sibling to do whatever she wants. She’ll have plenty of power, but she won’t be unchecked like Ishar. If she starts ripping Connections apart from people as a weapon, that goes against the entire “I will unite instead of divide” oath that she’ll eventually have to say. 

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If Szeth is on a battlefield fighting a Fused with Nightblood and then all the sudden 10,000 troops rush him he is dead. End of story.

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Ask the pre-desolation nations how much damage he can do.

That was a series of 1v1 and 1v5 not a war

 

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

There is more than one Radiant, and Regals can't fly.

We’re talking about Szeth not Radients

 

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

He kept NIghtblood drawn for too long, sheath him sooner and he'd be fine.

If your fighting you can’t sheath a sword. Any break will get you killed

Also Taravangian knows the dangers of Nightblood and will plan for it

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1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Can you please rephrase that I don't quite understand

So I'm saying that the fused can potentially steal Nightblood and lock it away. You're saying any lock can be picked. I believe you are underestimating the precautions the fused/Todium would take if they secured Nightblood. I'm basically saying your theory of Szeth cleansing Roshar is way too optimistic and there are other realistic scenarios that anti light provides the Radiants with.

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1 minute ago, Andy92 said:

We’ve already seen on screen what happens when a Radiant bonded to a spren uses their powers in a way that disregards their oaths. Kaladin nearly killed Syl due to this. I’m not so worried that Navani can just circumvent her bond with The Sibling to do whatever she wants. She’ll have plenty of power, but she won’t be unchecked like Ishar. If she starts ripping Connections apart from people as a weapon, that goes against the entire “I will unite instead of divide” oath that she’ll eventually have to say

Navani is known to experiment without fully worrying about the consequences 

And the Sibling isn’t that worried about human life

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1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Navani is known to experiment without fully worrying about the consequences 

And the Sibling isn’t that worried about human life

If The Sibling doesn’t care whether humans live or die then the bigger concern is the spren, not the Bondsmith lol. 

I personally don’t believe The Sibling will continue to be as against humanity moving forward. We saw them on screen being attacked after a centuries long slumber, so of course they were going to be on edge. The circumstances have changed now. 

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2 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

If Szeth is on a battlefield fighting a Fused with Nightblood and then all the sudden 10,000 troops rush him he is dead. End of story.

There are not 10,000 troops that can fly in all of Roshar let alone those that work for Odium.

1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said:

That was a series of 1v1 and 1v5 not a war

That will work eventually, and he was doing 1 v 30's near the end

2 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

We’re talking about Szeth not Radients

No, we are talking about NIghtblood

3 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

If your fighting you can’t sheath a sword. Any break will get you killed

He has a backup weapon, can heal form almost anyhting and can fly.

4 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Also Taravangian knows the dangers of Nightblood and will plan for it

What's he going to do? Rayse was afraid to but look how much good that did him.

Just now, Lanaya said:

So I'm saying that the fused can potentially steal Nightblood and lock it away. You're saying any lock can be picked. I believe you are underestimating the precautions the fused/Todium would take if they secured Nightblood. I'm basically saying your theory of Szeth cleansing Roshar is way too optimistic and there are other realistic scenarios that anti light provides the Radiants with.

Even if they somehow locked NIghtblood away, not likely as Rayse more than likely tried It still leaves the Fused at a disavantage as killing them slowly drives them insane, but Spren can come back fresh each time.

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8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

There are not 10,000 troops that can fly in all of Roshar let alone those that work for Odium.

15 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Why do they need to fly? Szeth can’t attack if he’s in the air. And if he draws nightblood all his Stormlight will drain very fast, so he’ll only draw it on the ground.

 

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

No, we are talking about NIghtblood

15 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

And who has nightblood...

 

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

What's he going to do? Rayse was afraid to but look how much good that did him.

Field an insane amount of troops against him at the first possible moment.

 

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Even if they somehow locked NIghtblood away, not likely as Rayse more than likely tried It still leaves the Fused at a disavantage as killing them slowly drives them insane, but Spren can come back fresh each time.

All those fused can probably last a few hundreds more years . The Radients... they’ll lose before then. And Odium can elevate more Fused

 

11 minutes ago, Frustration said:

He has a backup weapon, can heal form almost anyhting and can fly.

There are also hundreds of Shanay’im with Aluminum and Stormlight runs out. Especially when he’s using Nightblood. Dalinar can’t always open a Perpendicular just for him.

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Just now, Bejardin1250 said:

Why do they need to fly? Szeth can’t attack if he’s in the air. And if he draws nightblood all his Stormlight will drain very fast, so he’ll only draw it on the ground.

You overestimate how quickly Nightblood drains investiture, Vasher went through most of a palace with what like 200 breath?

1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said:

And who has nightblood...

Anyone who holds him.

2 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Field an insane amount of troops against him at the first possible moment.

Then they will die.

2 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

All those fused can probably last a few hundreds more years . The Radients... they’ll lose before then. And Odium can elevate more Fused

How Will the Radiants lose? They have lost what three Radiants since the conflict began, in a year how much land have they lost? Who always won the preivious conflicts?

And Odium has not elevated more fused since the conflict started and if he did and became a problem doing so would make him significantly weaker than Cultivation and he will be dealt with.

4 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

There are also hundreds of Shanay’im with Aluminum and Stormlight runs out. Especially when he’s using Nightblood. Dalinar can’t always open a Perpendicular just for him.

There are also hundreds of Windrunners, and Szeth is faster than they are, and he can carry spheres.

He doesn't even need to kill hundreds at a time, just four or five a day and the war would end in just a year or so.

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9 hours ago, Quick Ben said:

And of course it is problematic if she thinks about being free to do scholarship. The tower is under enemy occupation, she has no idea of the welfare of the people within the tower, what she does is collude with the enemy, 

She didn't collude with the enemy! Someone made a post on this above, she tried to hide it but she failed. She wasn't allowed to twlk to her scholars and her one connection with the outside world- the veins of garnet- were being monitored.

7 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

I did know that when I wrote it but it doesn’t matter one bit to the actual facts because we know who invented Anti-Light. 

and we’re all that matters 

She did not need the sphere for this. She could have found the Tone and stoped. There was no reason to give Raboniel the means to destroy their greatest strength.

 

They would lose the war in the long run. Like it said, the singer troops were getting more and more experience and the Fused were increasing. Humankind could gain advantages through technology and make progress with the spren, but there are only so many True spren in Shadesmar and Fused regenerate every time you kill them. There is no Oathpact to bind them anymore and Team Radiant would lose eventually. They have to make actual casualties while they are still somewhat evenly matched. I won't say Anti-Stormlight wasn't a huge blow, but a tiny spren is harder to stab then a Fused.

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

She still was not the first one, it doesn't matter if the person who did it first cares or not, they did it.

Nightblood exists, and was exclusivly in Radiant hands.

It doesn't matter but it should. Even in our world, we don't care if two equally intelligent people make the same invention, we care who did it first. Doing it later doesn't make her any less creative or smart than who did it first, so she should get the credit.

2 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

I’ve only got one question for you. Why did Navani have to make it when Raboniel was right there. She could have waited until she was liberated until she did

And if you tell me that she did because she didn’t know if she would be freed then she shouldn’t make it at all.

Wait for who to liberate her? You talk as if it was inevitable, but Dalinar never could have pulled of a rescue mission for the tower and Kaladin is just one Radiant, even if he's Kaladin. The whole reason she was liberated was because of her research into Anti-Light and tones, and she delivered Anti-Voidlight too, so both sides now have a near equal chance of finishing the other off. But she restored the tower and got it working again and losing the tower made Odium more desperate.

26 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Leave the fused without one either, and any lock can be picked.

They'd probably lock it in Kholinar or somewhere equally inpenetrable. It would be really easy to lose and really hard to get back. And putting it in the sheath again and again would be hampering. Plus, what if all the Heavenly Ones swarm him at once? He'd have to keep it open for a long time and either it would consume him or they would capture him.

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1 minute ago, Listener said:

It doesn't matter but it should. Even in our world, we don't care if two equally intelligent people make the same invention, we care who did it first. Doing it later doesn't make her any less creative or smart than who did it first, so she should get the credit.

She didn't do it first and thus did not discover it.

2 minutes ago, Listener said:

They'd probably lock it in Kholinar or somewhere equally inpenetrable. It would be really easy to lose and really hard to get back. And putting it in the sheath again and again would be hampering. Plus, what if all the Heavenly Ones swarm him at once? He'd have to keep it open for a long time and either it would consume him or they would capture him.

It would not be really easy to capture, and getting into Kholinar was not difficult the last time.

And even if they could get it the Fused might try to kill themselves.

And Szeth is not alone, why do Fused get the number advantage, there are hundreds of Windrunners, and Heavenly ones fight 1 v 1. most of the time.

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6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

You overestimate how quickly Nightblood drains investiture, Vasher went through most of a palace with what like 200 breath?

Fight enough Regals and you will lose all that Stormlight

 

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Then they will die.

No they won’t they will kill The carrier of Nightblood.

 

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Anyone who holds him.

12 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Not just anyone can hold him. Good people feel nausea when holding him bad people kill themselves. Only people like Szeth and Vasher can hold him.

 

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

He doesn't even need to kill hundreds at a time, just four or five a day and the war would end in just a year or so.

So you think the Fused wouldn’t create a plan to deal with him. Especially with Taravangian at their head, a really smart man who can figure out how to deal with him.

 

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

And Odium has not elevated more fused since the conflict started and if he did and became a problem doing so would make him significantly weaker than Cultivation and he will be dealt with.

Source on the Cultivation thing?

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Just now, Frustration said:

She didn't do it first and thus did not discover it.

It would not be really easy to capture, and getting into Kholinar was not difficult the last time.

And even if they could get it the Fused might try to kill themselves.

And Szeth is not alone, why do Fused get the number advantage, there are hundreds of Windrunners, and Heavenly ones fight 1 v 1. most of the time.

Discovering something only gives you credit because it proves that you're smart! She is as smart as who discovered it so she should get the same amount of credit. Last time, Kholinar wasn't in total Fused control. And if the Skybreakers come as well, they would at least equal the Windrunners leaving the Heavenly one's free. Or maybe the Skybrakers would attack instead while Windrunners and Heavenly One battle. And that's not counting Nale who is unlikely to even get scratched, and he's a Herald so who knows what the sword would do to him anyway.

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1 minute ago, Listener said:

Discovering something only gives you credit because it proves that you're smart! She is as smart as who discovered it so she should get the same amount of credit. Last time

No. She gets credit for helping the war effort, and being smart. 
Not with the discovery since she didn’t discover it

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She doesn't get credit with the discovery, I'm just saying she should get as much credit as the person who made the discovery since she figured it out too.

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2 minutes ago, Listener said:

She doesn't get credit with the discovery, I'm just saying she should get as much credit as the person who made the discovery since she figured it out too.

So what does she get credit for exactly?

Being smart? We already know that

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1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said:

So what does she get credit for exactly?

Being smart? We already know that

Its nothing. People are just saying that figuring it out isn't a point in her favor since someone else already discovered it.

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Posted (edited)

18 minutes ago, Listener said:

Its nothing. People are just saying that figuring it out isn't a point in her favor since someone else already discovered it.

Well point in her favor for what exactly?

I don’t think anybody is doubting she is smart.

But that really isn’t part of the equation of Bondsmith worthyness

oh I see what your saying now. Ok

Edited by Bejardin1250
A...revaluation
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2 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Fight enough Regals and you will lose all that Stormlight

Regals. Can't. Fly.

2 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

No they won’t they will kill The carrier of Nightblood.

How? if it touches them they're dead, and Aluminum is too exspencive to give them.

2 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Not just anyone can hold him. Good people feel nausea when holding him bad people kill themselves. Only people like Szeth and Vasher can hold him.

Anyone that Nightblood judges as good can use him and will then become immune to the nausea.

2 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

So you think the Fused wouldn’t create a plan to deal with him. Especially with Taravangian at their head, a really smart man who can figure out how to deal with him.

Rayse obviously couldn't

2 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Source on the Cultivation thing?

Mistborn

Spoiler

Making new Fused will use his Investiture, along with the souls of the Old fused being corrupted and unusable and the piece that NIghtblood took out killing Rayse will leave him weakened just as the amount of Atium taken out by the pit's of Hathsin weakened Ruin

 

2 hours ago, Listener said:

Discovering something only gives you credit because it proves that you're smart! She is as smart as who discovered it so she should get the same amount of credit. Last time, Kholinar wasn't in total Fused control. And if the Skybreakers come as well, they would at least equal the Windrunners leaving the Heavenly one's free. Or maybe the Skybrakers would attack instead while Windrunners and Heavenly One battle. And that's not counting Nale who is unlikely to even get scratched, and he's a Herald so who knows what the sword would do to him anyway.

No, it gives you credit because you did it.

Kholinar still has a large human population and unlike Urithiru there isn't a way for the fused to turn off Lightweavers.

And there are more Windrunners than Skybreakers

Nightblood would perma-kill Nale

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5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

How? if it touches them they're dead, and Aluminum is too exspencive to give them.

Anyone that Nightblood judges as good can use him and will then become immune to the nausea.

Rayse obviously couldn't

No, it gives you credit because you did it.

Kholinar still has a large human population and unlike Urithiru there isn't a way for the fused to turn off Lightweavers.

And there are more Windrunners than Skybreakers

Nightblood would perma-kill Nale

They can just stab Szeth in the back. Or shoot an arrow. He's not of the 4th Ideal, the can't avoid openings.

How many people in their right minds would judge Nightblood as good?

The whole point is Taravangian is smarter than Rayse which is why he makes such a good Vessel

Why does doing it give you credit?

There are definitely insane security measures in that city since its their base. A lot of Fused work there full time, its probably filled with regals and they cant use their powers unless they are attacking because of the secretspren. Thunderclasts and Unmade definitely live there and its unlikely that they dont count the humans. And a hundred more little ways to keep intruders out. Last time, there was still a human resistance there and very little Fused. And they cant even use spanreeds without drawing attention. A retrieval mission there would be extremely unlikely to occur or succeed. 

Aren't the highspren willing and the honorspren are just coming around. They haven't even reached Urithiru yet and it'll take time to train. Plus, there's always Nale who is close to unbeatable on the battlefield

Nale is a CS, so its not certain how that might play out. Has a CS ever been scratched by Nightblood before? And that's assuming Szeth can even land a hit. I know it says that he didn't use Nightblood the last time he faced him but Nale is a Herald and definitely better than Szeth.

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12 minutes ago, Listener said:

They can just stab Szeth in the back. Or shoot an arrow. He's not of the 4th Ideal, the can't avoid openings.

And how effective are normal weapons against a Radiant?

12 minutes ago, Listener said:

How many people in their right minds would judge Nightblood as good?

It's Nightblood doing the judging

13 minutes ago, Listener said:

The whole point is Taravangian is smarter than Rayse which is why he makes such a good Vessel

He wasn't smarter when he acsended

13 minutes ago, Listener said:

Why does doing it give you credit?

Becasue you did it first, It's bragging right's really.

14 minutes ago, Listener said:

There are definitely insane security measures in that city since its their base. A lot of Fused work there full time, its probably filled with regals and they cant use their powers unless they are attacking because of the secretspren. Thunderclasts and Unmade definitely live there and its unlikely that they dont count the humans. And a hundred more little ways to keep intruders out. Last time, there was still a human resistance there and very little Fused. And they cant even use spanreeds without drawing attention. A retrieval mission there would be extremely unlikely to occur or succeed. 

Lightweavers can use their powers, and they can look like Regals.

14 minutes ago, Listener said:

Aren't the highspren willing and the honorspren are just coming around. They haven't even reached Urithiru yet and it'll take time to train. Plus, there's always Nale who is close to unbeatable on the battlefield

There are hundreds of Windrunners right now, and hundreds more squires.

And Nightblood has proven effective against Heralds

16 minutes ago, Listener said:

Nale is a CS, so its not certain how that might play out. Has a CS ever been scratched by Nightblood before? And that's assuming Szeth can even land a hit. I know it says that he didn't use Nightblood the last time he faced him but Nale is a Herald and definitely better than Szeth.

Yes, Nightblood destroyes on all three realms, he has killed Fused before.

And Szeth fought of Ishar, and even Dalinar handed a hit.

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4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

And how effective are normal weapons against a Radiant?

It's Nightblood doing the judging

He wasn't smarter when he acsended

Becasue you did it first, It's bragging right's really.

Lightweavers can use their powers, and they can look like Regals.

There are hundreds of Windrunners right now, and hundreds more squires.

And Nightblood has proven effective against Heralds

Yes, Nightblood destroyes on all three realms, he has killed Fused before.

And Szeth fought of Ishar, and even Dalinar handed a hit.

Those Stormlight sucking ones are pretty useful.

He was smarter. It says so, he saw possibilities even Rayse hadn't.

If its bragging right then it doesn't really count for anything. It doesn't prove he's more deserving than who did it later.

How far do you think they'll go? Did you miss all the other things? I wish I could list all the problems for you but that list would be endless. Its a thousand to one odds they'll make it even halfway through the city.

There are three hundred Windrunners, counting squires.

When has Nightblood last killed a Herald. 

Szeth severed the Connection and Ishar was stunned. Then Dalinar opened a perpendiculartity and that gave him a few moments of lucidity. Or maybe not in that order, it's been a while. Either way, Szeth isn't a match for a herald and Nale is probably even more skilled than Ishar since he spent the whole Era of Solitude fighting. When did Dalinar land a hit?

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Just now, Listener said:

Those Stormlight sucking ones are pretty useful.

The Raysium ones that are so excpencive that Raboniel considered searching a room for a few splinters of?

And that's another thing Radiants lack access to Raysium.

1 minute ago, Listener said:

He was smarter. It says so, he saw possibilities even Rayse hadn't.

One possibility, one.

1 minute ago, Listener said:

If its bragging right then it doesn't really count for anything. It doesn't prove he's more deserving than who did it later.

Winning a Marathon is bragging rights, winning anything is bragging rights, discovering somehting first is bragging rights, and Navani does not get those rights.

3 minutes ago, Listener said:

There are three hundred Windrunners, counting squires.

And how many skybreakers?

3 minutes ago, Listener said:

When has Nightblood last killed a Herald. 

He's killed a Vessel of a Shard of Adonalsium!

Why would he not be able to kill Heralds?

4 minutes ago, Listener said:

Szeth severed the Connection and Ishar was stunned. Then Dalinar opened a perpendiculartity and that gave him a few moments of lucidity. Or maybe not in that order, it's been a while. Either way, Szeth isn't a match for a herald and Nale is probably even more skilled than Ishar since he spent the whole Era of Solitude fighting. When did Dalinar land a hit?

Szeth attacked Ishar before Navani swore her Ideal.

Dalinar walked over and placed his hand on Nale.

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46 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The Raysium ones that are so excpencive that Raboniel considered searching a room for a few splinters of?

And that's another thing Radiants lack access to Raysium.

One possibility, one.

Winning a Marathon is bragging rights, winning anything is bragging rights, discovering somehting first is bragging rights, and Navani does not get those rights.

And how many skybreakers?

He's killed a Vessel of a Shard of Adonalsium!

Why would he not be able to kill Heralds?

Szeth attacked Ishar before Navani swore her Ideal.

Dalinar walked over and placed his hand on Nale.

Not the Raysium ones, the ones given to the Heavenly ones.

It said possibilities, multiple.

Why do bragging rights matter?! She never actually bragged about it, anyway.

How would I know how many Skybreakers there are?

Maybe Nightblood can kill Nale but Szeth is still unlikely to score a hit.

What does Navani's Ideal have to do with this? Also, in that scene, no one even scratched Ishar, Ishar fled because of something.

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3 minutes ago, Listener said:

Not the Raysium ones, the ones given to the Heavenly ones.

If it drains Stomrlight it's Raysium.

4 minutes ago, Listener said:

It said possibilities, multiple.

In refrencing the ones Rayse MIssed it only says one.

4 minutes ago, Listener said:

Why do bragging rights matter?! She never actually bragged about it, anyway.

If you don't think it's immportant why are you so upset Navani doesn't get credit for Anti-light?

5 minutes ago, Listener said:

How would I know how many Skybreakers there are?

I'll answer that, less than the Windrunners

6 minutes ago, Listener said:

Maybe Nightblood can kill Nale but Szeth is still unlikely to score a hit.

Given that he can break Honorblades given enough hits, I don't think that's a problem.

7 minutes ago, Listener said:

What does Navani's Ideal have to do with this?

That's what caused Ishar's Lucidicty

7 minutes ago, Listener said:

Also, in that scene, no one even scratched Ishar, Ishar fled because of something.

Nightblood chipping his Honorblade

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