The big three magic systems, and the possible "three"-way battle for the Cosmere

[therunner]

On 28/03/2021 at 1:12 PM, Ixthos said:

So it seems that Sel focuses on providing the breadth of hypothetical abilities a shard possesses, scaled down and turned into a programming language and thus predictable and repeatable, Roshar mixes real world physics and the idea of abstract applications of metaphysical ideas and interacting with base investiture, and Scadrial goes even further into real world physics and the possible interactions with the nature of investiture itself as used by other systems.

I think there are additional differences, but more in practical terms stemming from the underlying mechanisms

1. Sel's magic is the most flexible, as you state its capabilities seems effectively unlimited especially the Elantrian system, only restricted by amount of energy. However it is strongly tied to the planet, and while there might be ways around it (the Ire fortress in SH and its conduit) it presents a great limitation. This will probably make them focus almost exclusively on magi-tech and magical constructs, because they are so easy to make for them, but their sphere of influence will be greatly limited.
2. Roshar's magic is the second most flexible, with fabrials seeming to be very flexible (if a concept has spren, there can be fabrial of that spren) it is not as strong or as flexible as Dor/Elantris. However getting it off-world is most likely easier, as everyone is interested in getting Stormlight off-planet, suggesting it is easier to achieve than with Dor. I would assume they will focus mostly on their fabrials, but since they work off in effect physical principles, they will also develop technologies along those lines that will be non-magical.
3. Scadrial's magic seems so far the least flexible of the lot. Even local fabrials so far only replicate/retarget normal Metallic arts to objects, and are not doing anything completely unrelated to abilities from Metallic arts. This will force them to develop mostly conventional technologies, augmented and supported by local fabrials. This is supported by the fact that Scadrians seem to be the ones with spaceship in Era 4, unlike the others (although we know little) who have comparatively easy access to cognitive realm to facilitate interplanetary travel.

17 hours ago, Ixthos said:

To the best of my knowledge the only quotes about Taldain's reasons for being isolated is because of Autonomy, which actually suggests to me the cultures WANTED to be more Cosmere active, but Autonomy or an avatar of Autonomy felt this would be determental to either Taldain or other world's Autonomy - that is, it also could explain the desire to destroy Scadrial, any world that starts to travel to the stars becomes a threat to the idea of other's autonomy, so destroy them. Taldain was preparing to use their advanced technology to subjugate others, and so now they are cut off.

Interesting hypothesis, if true and Trell is Autonomy, they might have become interested in Scadrial due to actions of Ghostbloods who seem to be the only Scadrian group actively messing with others, in effect making Set a reaction to Ghostbloods.

17 hours ago, Ixthos said:

That does seem likely. It also, depending on the nature of the Dawnshard's powers, might be a significant cost in terms of power to make one.

It seems to be that Dawnshards themselves are not that extremely invested, Rysn exhibits some signs of Fifth Heightening, suggesting that Dawnshard is not much more invested than single Divine Breath. Assuming it works off similar principles of course. I see Dawnshards as a sort of incredibly specialized and yet flexible tool, the tool on its own is not that powerful, but driven by someone wielding great power it can do great things.

17 hours ago, Ixthos said:

Well, we are slowly getting there - it probably will take them a long time in setting to go that far - I wonder if they already have the mathematical tools for this already?

I do not think they have necessary math just yet. Stormwardens suggest some knowledge of probability and statistics, Fused might have some better knowledge of mathematics of waves (what with Rhythms and all), so maybe if they put their heads together they might cobble something together. They do have the advantage that quantum effects seem to be present in some spren, making experiments necessary for discovery of quantum effects much more feasible.

I think they might have quite robust phenomenology of quantum effects in a few years if they focus on it, with some rudimentary math to accompany it, but Hilbert spaces are at least 1-2 centuries in the future for them.