Bavadin and her Avatars

[+graciemoo]

So, I was thinking about the Patji letter the other day, specifically the first few lines. 

Quote

You must know better than to approach us by relying upon presumption of past relationship. You have spoken to one who cannot respond. We, instead, will take your communication to us – though we know not how you located us upon this world.

In the past, I had never really noticed the phrase "one who cannot respond". But seriously, what does that mean? Based on the first sentence I'm assuming Hoid originally attempted to reach out to Bavadin, but why wouldn't she be able to respond? The thing is, we always assume that Bavadin is this super powerful mastermind but... what if she's not? What if she's not in control at all?

Obviously there’s so much we don’t know about avatars, but my interpretation of them is that avatars are a way to increase a shard’s influence and awareness. The main limitation of shards is that while the shard itself is infinite, the vessel's mind, although greatly enhanced, is finite. But if you create avatars, more minds to help manage the power, it’ll greatly expand a shard’s consciousness. However that's super OP, and if this is the case, why wouldn’t all the shards be doing it? There has to be some sort of drawback. What if too many avatars can infringe on a vessel’s control? I'm thinking maybe Bavadin started creating avatars, and she slowly started losing her handle on Autonomy and it just spiraled out of control. (Also it's possible that wouldn't be the case for all shards, the nature of Autonomy might mean that these avatars have greater influence than other avatars would)

Quote

Questioner

So Bavadin's avatars, right; Autonomy's avatars.

Brandon Sanderson

One of Bavadin's avatars. 

Questioner

Of those avatars, are some or all of them actual Splinters of Autonomy?

Brandon Sanderson

The terminology gets kind of sticky here. In Cosmere terms, some would say that counts as Splinters, some would say not. The avatars aren't necessarily aware but Bavadin always is. A lot of people in Cosmere would call that a Splinter. 

Questioner

My follow up to that would be, is it possible for a person to Ascend and become a Vessel of one of those Splinters?  

Brandon Sanderson

That is plausible. Yes. It could happen. It would be tough because they will have personalities of their own and so something would need to happen... but yeah

Specifically the quote from this WoB, "The avatars aren't necessarily aware but Bavadin always is" makes me think... imagine if she's alive but essentially trapped and unable to do anything, forced to watch in horror everything the avatars are doing. Alternatively she could be dead and the avatars have just been running the show for a while, unbeknownst to anyone else in the Cosmere. Also, maybe it wasn't Bavadin that locked up the Taldain Cognitive Realm, but her avatars essentially locking her up there. 

I think this would be a really interesting (and really freaky) interpretation of Autonomy, let me know what you guys think!

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Interesting theory, and that line is definitely super suspicious. Khriss does seem to at least think it's actually her:

Quote

Autonomy’s policy of isolationism in recent times (in direct contrast to her interference with other planets, I might add) has prevented travel to and from Taldain for many, many years.

A fact of which I am all too aware.

But if the planet's shut off, it might be hard to tell (and I imagine a Shard probably can imitate the appearance of someone else).

There should definitely be some drawback to avatars, and I think this would make a reasonable one. Even if Bavadin has access to the same infinite amount of power as normal, her mind's still limiting what she can directly control, and if the avatars are powerful enough....

I've seen the avatars similarly, as a way to extend their power indirectly, by having other minds control parts of it. So it seems logical that those minds can decide not to do what she wants, and if so, she's kind of screwed. And it certainly makes sense for people infused with the Intent of Autonomy.

[+graciemoo]

8 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Interesting theory, and that line is definitely super suspicious. Khriss does seem to at least think it's actually her:

But if the planet's shut off, it might be hard to tell (and I imagine a Shard probably can imitate the appearance of someone else).

Yeah, I'd still say that that Taldain's isolationism was Bavadin's doing, but it's interesting to think about. 

Also, the "Taldain is no longer hard to get to" WoB could be because the avatars didn't like her restrictions and took them down.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, graciemoo said:

Also, the "Taldain is no longer hard to get to" WoB could be because the avatars didn't like her restrictions and took them down.

Hmm. I really want to know the timeline of that tbh. It would have to be really recent, unless the AU essays are a lot older than we think.