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Capabilities of living plate


therunner

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Hello,

I was thinking about living plate and its differences to deadplate. RoW confirmed that shardplate is composed of lesser spren associated to a given order (windspren for Windrunner for example). We see that they can summon only part of it, and are told that it permanently accompanies the Radiant. I had two ideas, one potentially limited to Windrunners, the other more general.

  1.  We see Kaladin move his plate to others, could he use this to immobilize oponent? I.e. will the plate to them, and lock it in place? I see no reason against this.
  2.  Could the living plate repair itself not only by drawing in stormlight, but by also attracting others of the same spren it is made of? I.e. if Windrunners pauldron shattered, could the armor fix itself by adding more windspren to itself, avoiding the need to draw in stormlight?

Do these seem like reasonable ideas? Or do you have some other ideas on expanded/modified abilities of living plate?

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4 hours ago, therunner said:

 We see Kaladin move his plate to others, could he use this to immobilize oponent? I.e. will the plate to them, and lock it in place? I see no reason against this.

I'd guess probably! Could be very useful.

4 hours ago, therunner said:

 Could the living plate repair itself not only by drawing in stormlight, but by also attracting others of the same spren it is made of? I.e. if Windrunners pauldron shattered, could the armor fix itself by adding more windspren to itself, avoiding the need to draw in stormlight?

Hmm, I'm not certain. I'm leaning no just because it makes things a bit simpler if it's always the same ones, but it sounds like it could be possible.

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5 hours ago, therunner said:

Do these seem like reasonable ideas? Or do you have some other ideas on expanded/modified abilities of living plate?

The first one defintely seems like a reasonable ability of at least windrunner plate, but I don't think the second idea will be as accurate.

I think, using the windspren that make up their shardplate, that windrunners will be able to redirect, or maybe even control storms and highstorms, like how Kaladin did for a short time in Oathbringer. I also think that Kaladin being able to gift his plate to others to protect them might be a windrunner plate ability, and other orders might not be able to do that, but could be able to do different things with theirs unique to their order.

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1 hour ago, Parzival said:

The first one defintely seems like a reasonable ability of at least windrunner plate, but I don't think the second idea will be as accurate.

I think, using the windspren that make up their shardplate, that windrunners will be able to redirect, or maybe even control storms and highstorms, like how Kaladin did for a short time in Oathbringer. I also think that Kaladin being able to gift his plate to others to protect them might be a windrunner plate ability, and other orders might not be able to do that, but could be able to do different things with theirs unique to their order.

The windspren Kaladin used in RoW to make the pillar around Lirin during the Highstorm were seperate from his armor. His Highstorm powers are separate from his Shardplate, and some people think they may not even be normal Windrunner powers

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3 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Hmm, I'm not certain. I'm leaning no just because it makes things a bit simpler if it's always the same ones, but it sounds like it could be possible.

For the second idea one basis was that it seems odd to me that living plate would sap the fuel of Radiant when damaged, hence alternative mechanism for repair which does not hinder radiant, with the repair fueled by stormlight serving as an emergency backup (if the lesser spren aren't around). Of course the issue with damaged plate sapping Radiant could also be circumvented if Radiant could will the plate to not heal for sometime, or to focus the healing.

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4 minutes ago, therunner said:

For the second idea one basis was that it seems odd to me that living plate would sap the fuel of Radiant when damaged, hence alternative mechanism for repair which does not hinder radiant, with the repair fueled by stormlight serving as an emergency backup (if the lesser spren aren't around). Of course the issue with damaged plate sapping Radiant could also be circumvented if Radiant could will the plate to not heal for sometime, or to focus the healing.

The reason I'd doubt it is because plate seems to require stormlight to function. For living plate, it seems like as long as the radiant as stormlight, the plate can wireless draw it from them, otherwise you have to plug gemstones into it to act as batteries. Even if you could have a new spren just hop in and fix up a crack, that spren would still need more stormlight to act as plate, which might mean its easier just to repair the plate with stormlight. Maybe. We can't know until we see someone try it. I actually think one of the main things when it comes to the plate feeding on stormlight is that it can increase its durability by feeding on the radiant's stormlight. Repair might not even be a big deal for radiant plate, and the bigger consumer is reinforcing itself.

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8 minutes ago, therunner said:

For the second idea one basis was that it seems odd to me that living plate would sap the fuel of Radiant when damaged, hence alternative mechanism for repair which does not hinder radiant, with the repair fueled by stormlight serving as an emergency backup (if the lesser spren aren't around).

Doesn't Plate come with a spot for gemstones? Or am I misremembering?

Edited by LewsTherinTelescope
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1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Doesn't Plate come with a spot for gemstones? Or am I misremembering?

from what we've seen, it seems like the gemstones were not part of Radiant Plate

Quote

Bort (paraphrased)

Did Shardplate always have gemstones, or were they added later, after the Recreance?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

They were added, but maybe not just after the Recreance. They were added to Shardplate about the same time that the discovery was made that adding a gemstone to a Shardblade would allow it to be bonded.

 

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8 hours ago, therunner said:

Hello,

I was thinking about living plate and its differences to deadplate. RoW confirmed that shardplate is composed of lesser spren associated to a given order (windspren for Windrunner for example). We see that they can summon only part of it, and are told that it permanently accompanies the Radiant. I had two ideas, one potentially limited to Windrunners, the other more general.

  1.  We see Kaladin move his plate to others, could he use this to immobilize oponent? I.e. will the plate to them, and lock it in place? I see no reason against this.
  2.  Could the living plate repair itself not only by drawing in stormlight, but by also attracting others of the same spren it is made of? I.e. if Windrunners pauldron shattered, could the armor fix itself by adding more windspren to itself, avoiding the need to draw in stormlight?

Do these seem like reasonable ideas? Or do you have some other ideas on expanded/modified abilities of living plate?

On both points I doubt it. I suspect that transferring plate is related to Kal's oath of protection so using it to capture might be outside its transfer use. On the second point Spren feed on stormlight so for plate to remain whole it seems like it must constantly be fed the radiant's stormlight, and more so if damaged.

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30 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

The reason I'd doubt it is because plate seems to require stormlight to function. For living plate, it seems like as long as the radiant as stormlight, the plate can wireless draw it from them, otherwise you have to plug gemstones into it to act as batteries. Even if you could have a new spren just hop in and fix up a crack, that spren would still need more stormlight to act as plate, which might mean its easier just to repair the plate with stormlight. Maybe. We can't know until we see someone try it. I actually think one of the main things when it comes to the plate feeding on stormlight is that it can increase its durability by feeding on the radiant's stormlight. Repair might not even be a big deal for radiant plate, and the bigger consumer is reinforcing itself.

I would think that drawing enough stormlight to recreate even just lesser spren is much greater expenditure than empowering one, since living blades are third most invested objects in the cosmere (after shards and nightblood).

It is true that as far as we know plate requires stormlight. But most plate we have seen is deadplate, and gems were added later (thanks for the WoB @Bearer of Agonies). My reasoning would go this way:

  1. To summon sprenblade stormlight is not necessary, and both shardblade and shradplate are composed of living spren.
  2. You need to add gem to deadblade to restore some original functionality (summoning and dismissing), to deadplate you need to add gems to fuel it with stormlight to make it function.
  3. Living plate is described as always there, even when not visible and when the Radiant does not have stormlight in them, suggesting they can summon it whenever they feel like it.

My conclusion: Deadplate needs stormlight to restore the semi-dead lesser spren to functional state. Unlike deadblade, deadplate needs stormlight since its spren are asked to do active things like move around, not passive ones (just exist as blade). Living plate would then need stormlight to either reinforce itself (as @HSuperLee suggested), or to repair itself, but since the spren are still living it would make sense to me if new ones could be attracted to the flock.

Quote

On both points I doubt it. I suspect that transferring plate is related to Kal's oath of protection so using it to capture might be outside its transfer use. On the second point Spren feed on stormlight so for plate to remain whole it seems like it must constantly be fed the radiant's stormlight, and more so if damaged.

The fact that the transfer of Shardplate could be related to oath of protection is a good point, that could limit its use (although immobilizing opponent instead of killing them could be considered protection). On the second point, as far as I know spren do not require stormlight to function and exist, and  deadplate is evidence that to remain whole requires no stormligth, only fixing it and using it.

Edited by therunner
added second quote to respond
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8 minutes ago, therunner said:

My conclusion: Deadplate needs stormlight to restore the semi-dead lesser spren to functional state. Unlike deadblade, deadplate needs stormlight since its spren are asked to do active things like move around, not passive ones (just exist as blade). 

This could also be part of the reason why Plate breaks, but the only Shardblade to ever take damage was Ishar's Honorblade. Lesser spren are, well, lesser than Radiant spren, and so their metal is weaker. beyond that, Plate effects the wearer and has to move, whereas the Shardblade just appears, disappears, and changes shape. Plate does more things when it is summoned than a Blade does. And for the narrative, Brandon needed Blades to be mostly indestructible, but couldn't have characters walking around in unbreakable power armor.

Edited by Bearer of Agonies
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42 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

On both points I doubt it. I suspect that transferring plate is related to Kal's oath of protection so using it to capture might be outside its transfer use.

Syl isn't only able to form a sheild, I don't think the oaths have anything to do with wether or not you can transfer plate.

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1 hour ago, Bearer of Agonies said:

This could also be part of the reason why Plate breaks, but the only Shardblade to ever take damage was Ishar's Honorblade. Lesser spren are, well, lesser than Radiant spren, and so their metal is weaker. beyond that, Plate effects the wearer and has to move, whereas the Shardblade just appears, disappears, and changes shape. Plate does more things when it is summoned than a Blade does. And for the narrative, Brandon needed Blades to be mostly indestructible, but couldn't have characters walking around in unbreakable power armor.

True, and it would make sense that lesser spren form less resistant physical form and that the stormlight helps empower them/strenghten the armor.

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3 hours ago, Frustration said:

Syl isn't only able to form a sheild, I don't think the oaths have anything to do with wether or not you can transfer plate.

I'd say whether or not you can transfer plate is more a question of how mobile and how numerous the lessersprens used usually are in the PR (unless I'm mistaken, Kal still had his plate when he was protecting Adin), Windsprens are literally everywhere and move easily so Kal can project plates easily but logicsprens are rare so Jasnah couldn't without loosing her plate

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26 minutes ago, mathiau said:

I'd say whether or not you can transfer plate is more a question of how mobile and how numerous the lessersprens used usually are in the PR (unless I'm mistaken, Kal still had his plate when he was protecting Adin),

I don't remember him having all the plate. I thought what was happening was that the individual pieces were flying off and then conforming to the bodies of other people, like how when Kal put on the helmet in the area fight and it became more like a gauntlet, only better because its living plate. So for example, a pauldron might mimic part of a breastplate when he sends it to someone else or something. I'd check, but unfortunately I don't have my book easily accessible.

Edited by HSuperLee
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I've been unconsciously leaning toward @therunner's idea on the second, although I've never put it into words. I don't think sprenplate would be able to just not require stormlight in combat, however the main thing with sprenplate is that its made from living spren. Spren are bits of living Investiture. It's Honor's investiture, same as stormlight, but always there, not fading and being consumed, which makes me think that plate functioning won't require stormlight, although plate repairing likely will. 

Also note that Rlain says that the plate is apparently "always there". Kaladin isn't constantly on stormlight outside of combat, and he's not constantly wearing gems either. The sprenplate is independant of stormlight, instead working off of the Investiture inherent in the spren. Thus, it seems likely that any ol' windspren could do for replacing a piece of shattered plate. I'm not gonna run around assuming I'm right, but that seems to be most likely and plausible to me.

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4 hours ago, mathiau said:

I'd say whether or not you can transfer plate is more a question of how mobile and how numerous the lessersprens used usually are in the PR (unless I'm mistaken, Kal still had his plate when he was protecting Adin), Windsprens are literally everywhere and move easily so Kal can project plates easily but logicsprens are rare so Jasnah couldn't without loosing her plate

It only appeared on one person at a time including Kal.

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  • 3 months later...
On 3/26/2021 at 5:43 PM, HSuperLee said:

I don't remember him having all the plate. I thought what was happening was that the individual pieces were flying off and then conforming to the bodies of other people, like how when Kal put on the helmet in the area fight and it became more like a gauntlet, only better because its living plate. So for example, a pauldron might mimic part of a breastplate when he sends it to someone else or something. I'd check, but unfortunately I don't have my book easily accessible.

 

On 3/26/2021 at 10:13 PM, Frustration said:

It only appeared on one person at a time including Kal.

Yep:

Quote

“The armor burst apart, forming those strange windspren who flew into the air overhead before latching on to a figure hovering above the buildings.
The Plate had fit everyone, but him it matched.”

 

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