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Axindweth is a member of the Set


Rashekin

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Ok, I have no proof of this hypothesis. But seeing the fact that Axindweth is from Terris (Scadrial), and she is the one who brings the voidspren to Roshar from Braize, it makes me think that she is a member of the Set, or that she is someone important in Trell's plans.

We know that Odium and Autonomy have a "pact", being possible allies, so it would not be strange that Trell is an avatar of Autonomy, who feels admiration for Odium (like Patji in Oathbringer's letter) and seeks the return of the Desolations to favor Odium.

It is not a well-crafted hypothesis, but it is what I think it might be. And furthermore, I also think that the Set itself is a reaction to the Ghostbloods, being rival organizations, like the Ghostbloods and Sons of Honor.

What do you think?

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7 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

We do?

not so much a pact, but there's this:

Quote

Moridin997 (paraphrased)

Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh...

Moridin997 (paraphrased)

(sensing an incoming RAFO): In any way...

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh... Yes... Yes, you could say that...

Not really so much a pact as much as a possible involvement in the past.

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8 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

That WoB is extremely loosely worded.

I'm very aware. But I'm also aware that this basically the only reference to Autonomy and Odium ever working together, and it's definitely not enough to prove a pact.

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7 hours ago, Bearer of Agonies said:

not really so much a pact as much as a possible involvement in the past.

 

7 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

That WoB is extremely loosely worded.

Oh, I think I had a Mandela effect, the truth is that I could swear that I saw in the Coppermind or Arcanum, a pact or alliance between Bavadin and Rayse, but I see that it is not like that and that the WoB that I believed never existed. What a shame):

Still, I do think it is possible that Odium and Autonomy have at least respected and helped each other before, but I apologize for the blunder with the alleged deal between the two Shards.

Edited by Rashekin
The quotes were in Spanish, because I use the Chrome translator. I don't speak English at all
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@Bearer of Agonies @LewsTherinTelescope I did my research on Coppermind and Arcanum, and this is what I got. He doesn't talk about a pact (I apologize for that again) but he does hint at an alliance or something similar between Rayse and Bavadin, I guess based on the possible involvement of Autonomy in the battle of Odium against D&D 

IMG_20210325_215515_489.jpg

IMG_20210325_215539_175.jpg

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2 hours ago, Rashekin said:

he does hint at an alliance or something similar between Rayse and Bavadin, I guess based on the possible involvement of Autonomy in the battle of Odium against D&D

Well, him saying that Odium is allied with another Cosmere power doesn't means he agrees with that persons previous statement about Bavadin.
I've never liked making assumptions about any kind of relationship between Odium and Autonomy because we just don't have much information. The Coppermind cites that D&D WoB, but Brandon can be very tricky about these kinds of things, so him saying "You could say that..." could just mean "Autonomy was doing something at the time that coincidentally ended up helping Odium shatter D&D" or a million other possibilities, you can't really get anything concrete from that.

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  • 7 months later...

New WoB regarding Odium and Autonomy:

Quote

Double

Rayse (Odium) was very methodical with the order in which he went after other Shards. Hypothetically if he'd visited the Rosharan system all those years ago but managed to avoid being trapped and was able to continue his mission right away, which of the known Shards would've been next up on Rayse's hit list?

Brandon Sanderson

He expected Ruin to implode. So he might have gone for Autonomy, double crossing them.

Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

"double-crossing" is an interesting choice of words

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/25/2021 at 11:54 AM, Rashekin said:

Ok, I have no proof of this hypothesis. But seeing the fact that Axindweth is from Terris (Scadrial), and she is the one who brings the voidspren to Roshar from Braize, it makes me think that she is a member of the Set, or that she is someone important in Trell's plans.

We know that Odium and Autonomy have a "pact", being possible allies, so it would not be strange that Trell is an avatar of Autonomy, who feels admiration for Odium (like Patji in Oathbringer's letter) and seeks the return of the Desolations to favor Odium.

It is not a well-crafted hypothesis, but it is what I think it might be. And furthermore, I also think that the Set itself is a reaction to the Ghostbloods, being rival organizations, like the Ghostbloods and Sons of Honor.

What do you think?

If Axindweth is from Scadrial (which seems to be the consensus), then I believe she is part of the Ghostbloods. I believe she was sent by Thaidakkar (sp?) to work with/spy on Gavilar and Kelek. We know that Thaidakkar is probably investigating the things going on on Roshar to try to solve is cognitive shadow problem.

Assuming the WoB's are true about the timelines of SA5 taking place chronologically before W&W, my latest crack theory is that the Set is a direct response to the Ghostbloods messing with Roshar. I believe that Shallan and Pattern will form the Set in retaliation to the Thaidakkar and Mraize's intervention, regardless of what happens with the whole champion thing. The Set's goals are particularly destructive, which makes me wonder if my Shallan/Set theory has any weight to it. Maybe the Set is run by a bunch of rogue Cryptics and not by any KR in particular.

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4 hours ago, ChickenChaser said:

I believe that Shallan and Pattern will form the Set in retaliation to the Thaidakkar and Mraize's intervention, regardless of what happens with the whole champion thing. The Set's goals are particularly destructive, which makes me wonder if my Shallan/Set theory has any weight to it. Maybe the Set is run by a bunch of rogue Cryptics and not by any KR in particular.

By Adonalsium, I think you are on to something here.  We know Cryptics in general, and Pattern in particular, see the world in terms of mathematics.

The members that control the Set are known as the "Series."  Known members include "Sequence", "Suit" and "Array".

Coincidence?  I think not.  I'm on board.  Not sure how I feel about what I've always thought of as an evil organization being founded by characters I love... but I cannot deny the logic here, and honestly, I have the same misgivings about the Ghostbloods.

Well done, @ChickenChaser.  Have an upvote and my hearty congratulations for your fine insight.

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8 hours ago, ChickenChaser said:

Assuming the WoB's are true about the timelines of SA5 taking place chronologically before W&W, my latest crack theory is that the Set is a direct response to the Ghostbloods messing with Roshar. I believe that Shallan and Pattern will form the Set in retaliation to the Thaidakkar and Mraize's intervention, regardless of what happens with the whole champion thing. The Set's goals are particularly destructive, which makes me wonder if my Shallan/Set theory has any weight to it. Maybe the Set is run by a bunch of rogue Cryptics and not by any KR in particular.

Well, no, I am sorry, but that looks quite impossible. The Set is too old. They have been breeding Allomancers for so long that they have spare ones (Push and Pull). They have an established hierarchy with titles. There is no sensible way you can fit that in between SA 5 and Alloy of Law. Even if you are gong to absurd assumptions the Set must at least be 25 years old.

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I disagree that it's impossible.  Unlikely, perhaps... but deliciously possible, I think.

Is there evidence in the text that the Set has been breeding allomancers for "so long", or indeed, AT ALL?  I know it's the conclusion that Wax and the others come to, but do we see any actual evidence?  If I recall, the kidnappings were a quite recent development at the beginning of AoL.  I recall no reason to think that Push and Pull need to be products of kidnapping and rape; why couldn't they simply have been hired professionals?  Miles' crew was certainly not hurting for money, and there are numerous references in Era 2 of allomancers for hire.

To my knowledge, we do not yet know how long the time gap is between SA5 and SA6, nor do we know where in that gap AoL will sit.  We have only the roughest of guesses at how much time the Set will have to become an organization... but organizations can appear quickly with the right motivation.  We may very well see the birth of that organization during SA5.

I love the symmetry: the Ghostbloods - an organization founded by Scadrians - is perceived as a shadowy menace on Roshar, while the Set - founded by Rosharans - is the mysterious threat to Scadrial. 

The question NOT addressed, of course, is: how does Trell get involved?

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The Set would likely have to be at least several years old. Almost certainly too old for anyone we know from Stormlight to have organized. It would take years and years to set up an operation as deeply entrenched and influential as the Set is into Scadrian political structure. Suit spent a long time setting up to fake his death so he presumably he was already of decent status within the organization before he did that, and he himself was recruited by his niece who has an even higher rank than him so she was probably in the organization for a while before that. 

Maybe it would be possible if Wax and Wayne is at the very tail end of the time skip and Rosharan character somehow make very powerful and influential allies immediately after landing on Scadrial but that all seems like a stretch. 

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9 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

I disagree that it's impossible.  Unlikely, perhaps... but deliciously possible, I think.

Is there evidence in the text that the Set has been breeding allomancers for "so long", or indeed, AT ALL?

Push and Pull. They are grown men. That is a state that takes roughly two decades to attain.

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On 12/21/2021 at 0:32 AM, Oltux72 said:

Well, no, I am sorry, but that looks quite impossible. The Set is too old. They have been breeding Allomancers for so long that they have spare ones (Push and Pull). They have an established hierarchy with titles. There is no sensible way you can fit that in between SA 5 and Alloy of Law. Even if you are gong to absurd assumptions the Set must at least be 25 years old.

I don't like that I'm going to come across as combative, but do we know that push and pull are "homegrown" so to speak? I kind of agree that that's what they're trying to start doing, but it feels more recent to me.

I don't completely agree with your hierarchy argument either. The wind runners adopted one in a short amount of time; granted, they had some history to build off of. My only point is that an organization can structure itself pretty quickly. 

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10 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

I love the symmetry: the Ghostbloods - an organization founded by Scadrians - is perceived as a shadowy menace on Roshar, while the Set - founded by Rosharans - is the mysterious threat to Scadrial. 

The question NOT addressed, of course, is: how does Trell get involved?

I honestly don't know. And I agree that if the theory can't wrap up the facts than a) it's not a strong theory or B) it's a really strong theory that won't be supported until more facts become available.

We don't know a whole lot about Trell, I agree. I think we can agree that the Words of Founding might be available off world. If it is, then it could be as simple as picking a random religious name out of the list of gods. 

As far as what the metal is? I personally think it's the blending of Honor's and Odiums metals. 

I need to work on this some more before I can really get behind it, but I like the possibility. Thanks for the response, I like tough questions.

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3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Push and Pull. They are grown men. That is a state that takes roughly two decades to attain.

I don't understand how this constitutes proof of a "breeding program".  We know there are Allomancers on Scadrial; we know that they hire out their abilities.  Occam's Razor says this explanation makes more sense, unless there is evidence that Push and Pull were born in captivity.  I don't recall any such implication.

5 hours ago, StanLemon said:

The Set would likely have to be at least several years old. Almost certainly too old for anyone we know from Stormlight to have organized. It would take years and years to set up an operation as deeply entrenched and influential as the Set is into Scadrian political structure. Suit spent a long time setting up to fake his death so he presumably he was already of decent status within the organization before he did that, and he himself was recruited by his niece who has an even higher rank than him so she was probably in the organization for a while before that.

No one is arguing that the Set is less than several years old.  We DON'T KNOW (because Brandon has not decided yet) how many years there will be between SA5 and AoL, right?  It could be 20, it could be 40 or more.  Telsin is a few years older than Wax, so, mid-40s... what better way to be a high-ranking leader in an organization than to "get in on the ground floor", as they say?  "The Series" may be offworlders, while Telsin may be among the first of the native Scadrian Set members.

It's all just speculation, of course, and I understand why one might not like it.  But I still don't see anything that rules it out as impossible.

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6 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

I don't understand how this constitutes proof of a "breeding program".  We know there are Allomancers on Scadrial; we know that they hire out their abilities.

For head on confronting the government on short notice? I guess we must assume that they are members of the Set.

6 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

No one is arguing that the Set is less than several years old.  We DON'T KNOW (because Brandon has not decided yet) how many years there will be between SA5 and AoL, right?  It could be 20, it could be 40 or more.  Telsin is a few years older than Wax, so, mid-40s... what better way to be a high-ranking leader in an organization than to "get in on the ground floor", as they say?  "The Series" may be offworlders, while Telsin may be among the first of the native Scadrian Set members.

Jasnah is about 35. Unless you want her to be old and frail in the second arc, about 25 years will be the upper limit.

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9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

For head on confronting the government on short notice? I guess we must assume that they are members of the Set.

Head on confronting the government doesn't seem to be that big of a deal to many of the people we see in the books. Heck the roughs are filled with them. Any common criminal is someone in these books that's technically willing to confront the government. I'm pretty sure push and pull are just a couple of goons hired by suit. It could be he used them for jobs when he was a noble (speculation) or just came into contact with them since his presumed death. Either way he hired them and lent them to Miles, not conditioned, braindead, subjects of a birthing program just professional criminals/ hitmen that have loyalty to suit over miles since suit is the one giving them their paycheck. (knowing them before his faked death would just be an add on to loyalty)

 

10 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Jasnah is about 35. Unless you want her to be old and frail in the second arc, about 25 years will be the upper limit.

This is how I see it as well, they want to give it some time to have all the new gods get accustomed to their new roles (assuming you agree with the Dalinar = honor & lift = cultivation as I do) but don't want the non-god characters getting too old. Jasnah would still be a beast at 70 tho. Her style of battle and usefulness doesn't really come from being young and quick on her feet so If it was even if it was 35 years I could see it. As long as it isn't long enough for jasnah to become useless.

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11 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

No one is arguing that the Set is less than several years old.  We DON'T KNOW (because Brandon has not decided yet) how many years there will be between SA5 and AoL, right?  It could be 20, it could be 40 or more.  Telsin is a few years older than Wax, so, mid-40s... what better way to be a high-ranking leader in an organization than to "get in on the ground floor", as they say?  "The Series" may be offworlders, while Telsin may be among the first of the native Scadrian Set members.

It's all just speculation, of course, and I understand why one might not like it.  But I still don't see anything that rules it out as impossible.

We actually do know, it's 10 years.

Part of a larger WoB

Quote

Between book 5 and book 6, in-world, there will be a time jump of about 10 years, so just be expecting that. But I can't say anything more without getting into spoilers, so I won't. But that's what you can expect.

 

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7 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I am skeptical that there is actually an Allomancer breeding program. Post BoM that seems likely to be Wax's flawed assumption.

BoM makes it clear the Set uses Hemalurgic spikes granting Allomantic powers, they had to get the Allomancers for that, and we know they kidnapped Allomancers..

Didn't they kidnap people who had strong bloodlines but weren't actually Allomancers (like Steris)? Or were most of them actual Allomancers and they just messed up with her? I can't remember.

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